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Oil Consumption & Short Block Replacement Advice

22K views 40 replies 25 participants last post by  slimm1469 
#1 ·
Hi all,
I was looking for some input regarding some major repairs that are about to be done on my Accord. I've got a 2008 EX-L Coupe with about 55,000 miles on it and I recently noticed that it was using up oil pretty quickly. I was having to add about a quart of oil every other time I filled up the gas tank. So I took it to Honda and they confirmed that the engine was burning oil somewhat quickly, but it wasn't so bad that it was producing smoke in the exhaust. Anyway, I'm taking it in on Monday so they can do a short block replacement (thank God it's still under warranty). From what I can gather, this equates to replacing most of the engine. I'm worried though about having such a major repair on a relatively new car and I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice or input about the situation. I'm specifically wondering if this will last as long as a factory built engine and how I should handle preventive maintenance. My understanding is that the factory engine came filled with some sort of special "break-in" oil, should this be true following the replacement as well? Anything anyone is willing to offer would be greatly appreciated, and please mention anything you think I should be aware of that I didn't state previously. Thanks guys!
 
#2 ·
As long as the tech doing the replacement is good, you should have no issues. A repair like that won't go to the lowest guy on the totem pole, so to speak.

It'll probably be filled with Honda's bulk 5w20 that the dealer stocks.

It should last just as long, as Honda, as far as I'm aware doesn't use rebuilt short blocks, it'll be a new assembly, block, crank, rods, pistons.

They'll re-use your:

Head, timing drive, oil pump, pan, front cover, oil pan, valve cover. Maybe a few more other odds and ends too.

Insist on new coolant and a new thermostat, otherwise they will save/re-use as much as they can and re-use it. Even if you had to pay for the coolant and stat.

Treat it as you would a new car, vary engine speeds and loads, no heavy throttle for the first few hundred miles. Wait at least 5,000 miles to do an oil change, but check it at least weekly in the mean time.

I'd also ask if the catalyst(s) warranty will be extended xxx number of miles due to the oil contamination. An engine using a lot of oil can cause premature catalyst failure.
 
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#3 ·
Having ours done on '08 Accord v6!

Well it just happened to us at 62,000 miles... New block to be installed along with whatever else is needed... What I want to know is the difference in this replacement compared to existing that failed? Anyone know???
 
#4 ·
A quiet word of advice.
I hope they put running in oil in the new engine and not full synthetc, and intend a new 1000mile oil change.

I gather you have an auto.
In the first few hundred miles, use the manual mode of the gearbox as much as you can and try to keep the revs over 2000, especially in the higher gears.
Don't be afraid to use the revs in the mid range.

The auto box tends to hold higher gears at under 2000 revs on slight inclines which is very bad for these engines, especially in the break in period.
If you want your new oil rings to bed in properly and not glaze your new bores make sure you don't lug the engine.
You'll end up with a long lasting and better performing engine.
 
#5 ·
Your post.

Good morning. So about your post. I used full synthetic (Castrol) 5w-20 from the time we bought it at 10,000 miles back in '09. I have always changed the oil between 4500-5000 miles. So you're saying to not use full synthetic during breakin, but what about after am I able to switch back to what I used?

Anyone else out here had their short block replaced to fix this issue with oil consumption and fouling of plugs? Any issues after that? Did you do the water pump and belts while this was being done? It's usually due at 105,000 anyway and we have 62,000. I'm leaning to do it now because if I don't it's $750 for the entire job at 105,000 vs only $269 right now while they have the engine out.

Thoughts...?
 
#7 ·
Awesome! Thank you.

Thank you for the posting. It helps relax my anxiety on this major operation to my wife's car.:D
I'm going through with the belt replacements and water pump for $269. If I wait it will cost me an extra $500 to have them access the area again.
WOW. Yours was replaced at 37K, man that's early. I wonder why Honda has not recalled this. I noticed there was only a TSB out there, but nothing else.
 
#9 ·
Good deal. Thanks!

So I wonder what will happen to those that have not had this done yet? I heard it's for v6 Accords from '08-'11 based on other forums. Is it certain dates the engine was made, etc? How is one to tell if their car is going to need to have this done? Just wait for it to **** up oil and foul plugs? There are so many v6 Accords on the road and each one I pass by I often feel the need to mention what has been done to ours. I hope honda does not stick any owner past warranty with this bill. Mine was under extended warranty, but they gave Honda a hard time on this, so Honda said we'll cover under standard powertrain warranty.
 
#14 ·
What happens to the "broken" block? If you asked would they let you keep it or do they want to keep it to send back to corporate engineering for failure analysis (or to get $ for scrap value).

I'd want to turn it into a living room ornament.
 
#40 ·
7.5 years later...


When parts are replaced under warranty or recall the old parts belong to them.

My dealership has re-ringed so many V6 Accord, Odyssey's, and Pilot's it is absolutely ridiculous. At one point during the summer we had two a week (we're a smaller dealership, so that's a lot). We're just now seeing some 4 cylinder cars come in with oil consumption issues. Honda just approved to pay half on a customer that has 152k miles on his '08 Accord that is past the date of the warranty extension. Hell our dealership re-ringed a '11 Accord V6 with 200k miles on it, but only because it was in the warranty period.
New revised design pistons are also necessary, not rings only. Some have deactivated the “ECO” system to prevent this problem from appearing. Supposedly costs about 1 mpg, which on a 25 mpg car is about 4%, a significant amount.
 
#15 ·
It stinks that I am coming across this thread now.. I have had extremely bad oil consumption problems on my car for a long time. Whenever I did searches in here, I only came across "honda says it is normal to burn 1 qt every 1,000 miles" and never even bothered bringing it up with my dealer and just kept an eye on my oil consumption and added as needed.. especially since a time I had an oil change around 30k miles and my mechanic told me I barely had any oil in the engine and a few hundred more miles like that would have ruined my engine.

But now I am at 66k miles... :(
I wonder if Honda will do anything if I bring it to them.. how much could this cost without warranty?
 
#16 ·
what year is ur car? what engine? iv heard this "NORMAL" thing plenty of times, IT IS NOT NORMAL. i assume ur car is not still under warranty, but if it is you might wanna maybe try a different dealer. WOW!! a whole qt in 1k miles, think about where u would be at ur 5k oil change.
 
#19 ·
FWIW, there are many, many factors that determine oil consumption in any engine -- maintenance history, oil choices, driving patterns, vehicle mileage, etc. Like it or not, the industry standard for oil consumption is a quart of oil per 1000 miles. (Porsche considers 600 miles a quart acceptable, and of course Porsche owners considered that outrageous.) And then there's the fact that many owners insist their cars never consume oil. They are wrong. What typically occurs is condensation and fuel blow-by combine and accumulate in the oil pan, in effect maintaining the level of the oil in the sump. The first time the car is driven a long distance the condensation boils off, the oil level falls, and the car's owner raises hell.

What can be done to mitigate the problem? Actually, there are several things. First, a high quality/high detergent motor oil (such as Pennzoil's "Ultra" or Mobil 1) can, over time, remove a lot of grim and contamination from piston oil-control rings. The detergent properties dissolve the grim from the piston ring "lands" and the rings work better -- as intended, in other words. Second, oil weight (and brand) can also improve (reduce) oil consumption. Lighter weight oils (0W-20, 5W-20) improve mileage, but they are definately more volitile than higher viscosity oils. Simply using a 5W-30 weight oil will often make a noticeable difference.

And finally, there's the fact that motor oil is cheap. In the grand scheme of things automotive, a $5/$6 quart of oil every 1k miles is de minimis -- a typical operational expense borne by owners of virtually all makes and models.
 
#20 ·
I don't necessarily agree. It has been shown that a modern car with low tension piston rings (with rings that are working) that uses an oil that's too "heavy" will consume more oil than one that is using the correct oil.

The "thicker" oil will cause ring sticking, carboning and eventually micro welding, destroying them.

The farther the manufacturers are going for friction reduction within the engines, the thinner the oil has to be to get into the reduced clearances within these engines.

I will agree however, that using a real "synthetic" oil will help to clean out moderately carboned oil control rings that have seen either incorrect or wrong viscosity oil (very common) or excessive intervals for the use of the engine. And that all properly operating engines will use some oil. Some more than others.

The most important part is determining what the mfg specifies, as far as which HTHS oil is required if the car uses an xW30 oil. There are differences here. (And soon there will be two different 5w20 oils)

Next is the cold weather (W) number. usually the lower, the better, which will get oil to places faster and hopefully reduce issues caused by cold starts. (and yes, even warm weather starts are "cold") Even lowly GM found that using a 10w vs a 5w caused significant differences in their engines. That is one reason for their move to dexos1 (North American Gasoline approved) vs dexos2 (passenger car diesel and Euro gasoline engines). Both are 5w30 btw.
 
#21 ·
Well, there you have it folks -- two different perspectives on the same issue. I would add, however, that we know from the experiences of the prior posters that 0W-20 weight (or, likely, 5W-20) isn't working for them, so it's time (IMHO, of course) to try an inexpensive alternative. Me, I'd go with 5W-30 weight Pennzoil Ultra, a "light" 30-weight with exceptional detergent properties.

Nota bene: For those concerned about the "heaviness" (sic) of a 5W-30 weight oil vis-a-vis a 5W-20 weight oil, even the heaviest 5W-30 weight conventional oil is only about 22% heavier than Honda's (Conoco-Phillips) 5W-20 weight oil at operating temperature. We're not talking glue here. Try Penz Ultra 5W-30 for 5-10k miles.
 
#24 ·
For those concerned about the "heaviness" (sic) of a 5W-30 weight oil vis-a-vis a 5W-20 weight oil, even the heaviest 5W-30 weight conventional oil is only about 22% heavier than Honda's (Conoco-Phillips) 5W-20 weight oil at operating temperature. We're not talking glue here.
If you recollect, Precisely why the 5w-20 was recommend by honda in 2006 and 5w-20 is what is on the oil cap of my 2006 accord v6 AT sedan when the 7th gen started with 5w_30 on the oil cap. That along with stricter tolerances and being able to "reach" those tolerance as the guru alluded to.

But, in any case, you have to know what's being put in your engine in order to know whether your oil consumption problem is improving or getting worse. My recommendation will cost you about $30 x 2 -- the cost of two oil changes (plus whatever your dealer changes to perform them). The alternative is much more expensive and, IMHO, unnecessary until you know whether you have a consumption problem, whether it is truly a mechanical problem, or whether it can be mitigated by changing to a high detergent oil that enables the piston rings in your engine to work as intended.
Even your oil pump and the way Honda engines perform, some oils are easier for your OIL PUMP to process thus giving you efficiency gains even to the oil pump level.
 
#22 ·
Like most others, I'm not a mechanic or have intricate knowledge of how engines work.
I understand that theres going to be some reduction in oil levels in between oil changes but this is the first car I've had where oil consumption has been this significant. For my case, I noticed oil consumption on my last oil change cycle. On this oil change cycle, its been almost 3500 miles and I've had to add about 2 qrts on 2 separate instances (1st instance about a month and 2k miles after oil change and 2nd time was a few days ago) just to get it over the low oil level mark.
I'm planning to get an oil change in a few weeks at the dealer and will mention this ..but I doubt they'd do anything since I'm over the power train warranty mileage.

Nearly all my oil changes and maintenance work has been done at the dealer as well.
 
#23 ·
fugee, first, based on your description of how low your oil level was, you need to check your oil more often, and, more specifically, not wait until your next oil change to do so. Even a cursory check when you get gasoline is essential to ensure you have enough oil in your engine. In other words -- based again on what you wrote -- you should not wait until your next scheduled oil change to check your oil level.

Now, let's game out what's going to occur after you tell your service advisor you believe you have an oil consumption problem. He's going to write something innocuous like "customer reports high oil consumption" on the service order and recommend you monitor the level in order to try to determine how much is being consumed. From there, assuming the oil use is "excessive" -- i.e., say twice the industry norm of a quart per 1000 miles -- your service advisor is going to recommend expensive engine repairs.

So, we've come full circle. If your vehicle is beyond the warranty period, you may be able to persuade your dealer (and HMC) to do work without cost, but I doubt it. Your alternative is to monitor your oil level as I've suggested and -- rather than continue to use a product that isn't working for you -- try what I suggested above. If you don't want to change your oil yourself, buy what I recommended, take the oil to your dealer, explain your situation, and ask that they change your oil for you. But, in any case, you have to know what's being put in your engine in order to know whether your oil consumption problem is improving or getting worse. My recommendation will cost you about $30 x 2 -- the cost of two oil changes (plus whatever your dealer changes to perform them). The alternative is much more expensive and, IMHO, unnecessary until you know whether you have a consumption problem, whether it is truly a mechanical problem, or whether it can be mitigated by changing to a high detergent oil that enables the piston rings in your engine to work as intended.
 
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#25 ·
Why does the K series motor shoot black smoke at high RPMs? as if it were Diesel.
are you drving that fast to be able see the smoke coming out from the rear??
 
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#31 ·
All of this is my car!!! At 85,000 miles and about 1000 miles after an oil change my car started running rough and the engine light and oil light came on. I pulled over and checked the oil. Had to check it 3 times and then had to get another person to confirm that I was checking correctly. It had very little oil on the stick!!!! I added 3 quarts, checking level after each quart. The car ran OK for about 100 miles then was rough like it was miss firing and you guessed it the engine light came on. I was 5 miles from the honda dealership. I pulled in and explained what had happened. Tests showed that I needed spark plugs. So I figured OK it is almost 100,000 miles go ahead replace them. Car ran fine after this. Still have to check oil every 1500 miles or so and add oil in between oil changes. The car has 148,000 miles And is paid for and also is out of warranty. I have had to replace plugs twice more since that first replacement at 85,000 miles. This last time my mechanic ( not Honda) showed me the plug, the end was black burned out. This happens mostly to plugs 3,4 and 6. He said it is happening due to oil getting in there and that is how my car is burning oil. Not sure what I should do. If I had unlimited resources I would trade the car but I am not
Ina place to do that. My mechanic said replace the engine......that is a chunk of change also. What are the other problems this will cause. Will I just have to replace plugs and stay on top of of oil levels or is more damage to follow.....I cannot have another 600.00 car payment now!!!!!
 
#33 ·
My situation is sounding more and more like yours now...
My last oil change was at 78k miles, at 82k I started seeing the oil light come on briefly when I would need to accelerate hard or I was on a hill. I added a quart at that time and my oil life was at 50% in the past I would get down to 30% before I started to see the oil light flash. Right now I am just under 85k miles and my oil light has started to flash again, lo and behold my dipstick only shows oil on the TIP. I have also been getting really bad MPGs for the past 30k miles or so. But my last tank has been atrocious, half way through the tank and I have only 110 miles on the odo with 75% highway driving. Wtf!
I guess I will have my spark plugs looked at and possible replaced but thinking long term it might be a good time to trade or sell the car now. I wanted to keep the car forever, but not with this problem. I dont know if I can go with another Honda.
 
#32 ·
i have an 08 with 71k miles so im out of warranty. i burn oil INSANELY FAST about every 3-4 weeks i put an entire quart of oil (the dipstick doesnt have anything on it)

i definately need this done but how can i go about it? i wonder how much it will cost for those who arent in warranty
 
#37 ·
All these comments are missing valuable information. The 2008 Honda Accord V6 has an ECO system. This means the car goes from 6 cylinders to 4 cylinders to save gas. There is a KNOWN problem with this engine. Due to a engineering problem, the 3 cylinders can line up perfectly and oil get pushed into cylinder 3. There was a Class Action law suit against Honda and they refunded costs associated with tune-ups. I just learned that they extended the warranty to unlimited miles or 8 years. Basically I blew up cylinder 3 after my 8 years thus the warranty had expired...by less than a month.

Honda rebuilt my engine for a small deductible even though it was out of warranty. Every car jockey I talked with told me they would fix my car. I own 3 Honda's for a reason, there customer service is the best in the business and they stand behind their vehicles. Engineering flaws happen (Toyota). How companies deal with it says a lot.
 
#38 ·
My dealership has re-ringed so many V6 Accord, Odyssey's, and Pilot's it is absolutely ridiculous. At one point during the summer we had two a week (we're a smaller dealership, so that's a lot). We're just now seeing some 4 cylinder cars come in with oil consumption issues. Honda just approved to pay half on a customer that has 152k miles on his '08 Accord that is past the date of the warranty extension. Hell our dealership re-ringed a '11 Accord V6 with 200k miles on it, but only because it was in the warranty period.
 
#39 ·
I have am accord v6 2009 having the same issue my car has been I. And out the dealer 5 times and now has been there again and they told me that I need a short block , if you don't know Honda lost a settlement law suite back in 2014 so I was able to get in but now ho da is not honor the warranty on my car so I have been without my car for 4 weeks and still fighting with Honda I am getting no where with them , I been driving rental that I have to pay out of my pocket because Honda don't give a shit to their customers . Little advice don't buy Hondas and if you have one good luck . As soon I can take my car out of the dealer I am selling that peace of shit .
 
#41 ·
I have an 09 V6 with 150k miles. Minor seepage from valve cover gasket, maybe 1/2 qt between 4-5k mile changes. Been a great car, reliable, fun to drive.
 
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