Transmission shudders when cold

[davisenvy]

I have a 2006 Accord V6 74k mi. When first starting up and the transmission is cold, the car will shudder mainly between 1-2 shifts. This happened about 10k miles ago(1-2, and 2-3 shifts) and I did a 3x drain and refill with the new Honda DW-1. It fixed the problem, but now its back. Is this a common thing? Or is my tranny on its way out?

I have read about Honda transmission problems, but thought it was fixed in '06. I'm quickly loosing faith.

[Arkainzeye]

what kind of servicing have you done to your transmission over its life? Btw i noticed the same thing on my 05 V6. I personally did something i havent read much or at all one here.

i added this last month and it made a Major difference.. http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-177/LUBE...ATF+Supplement

btw i learned about this stuff from the oil forums then i even asked a transmission shop.. everyone seemed to recommend this product and nothing else. and so far my transmission has never shifted this nice... Im not a person that believes in magical miracles in a bottle.. so i was actually looking for it to be a waste of money. then i started to noticed its Not lurching like it did before. and its not shifting as hard... 1 word... (smooth)

[davisenvy]

I bought the car used at 60k mi with all the maintenance records from the Honda dealer. The trans was "flushed" at 30k and when I got it at 60k mi. Is this a normal characteristic? I have never had a car do this before, especially this early in its life. I have also never had to add a miracle lubricant to any of my vehicles to get it to shift correctly at 70k mi either.

[DreaminAccord]

Yes this is normal for a cold automatic transmission. Mine only has 32k miles and if I don't have a few minutes to let the ATF warm up before pulling out of the drive way, I feel the same thing around 1st & 2nd and sometimes 3rd.

The best thing to do is to let the car idle when cold until the RPMs drop below 1K, then gently drive the car until it reaches operating temp. It's best for your ATF and coolant fluids to warm up together rather than having it sitting there idling and wasting gas for 10 minutes.

[Dan]

+1 for lubeguard red. it's great stuff. just throw the whole bottle in there

[davisenvy]

So the shuddering isn't a sign of a bad trans? I'll order some of the lubeguard red tomorrow. I have never had a car where a transmission shuddering when cold is considered to be normal. The Allison on my Dmax doesn't shudder when its cold.

[redbullfan]

I wouldnt put any kind of additives into the transmison because these transmissions are known for failure. The shudder is normal and i have a 4 cylinder.

[Drew03Accord]

Originally Posted by redbullfan

The shudder is normal and i have a 4 cylinder.

Have to disagree. I feel no shudder whatsoever from my i4.

[davisenvy]

How can the shudder be normal? I don't think the trans is supposed to do this, but I think it is a common thing in these cars. My whole concern is, is this a prelude to trans failure?

[Arkainzeye]

No no!!!! Lubegard black, not red.....

[Arkainzeye]

Originally Posted by redbullfan

I wouldnt put any kind of additives into the transmison because these transmissions are known for failure. The shudder is normal and i have a 4 cylinder.

If the transmission is known to fail how will doing nothing Different prolong or prevent it from failing. .?

[MikeCz]

Excuse my long reply - Shudder is this transmission is not normal. These transmissions shift differently by design and shift logic programming when cold. Along with RPM Shift point changes, this cold logic is particularly noticeable in 2nd to 3rd changes and normally shows up as a slightly extended overlapped (slush) change as the DBW throttle is held back slightly longer than usual during the shift by TCM logic.

Talk of Pressure sensors causing Hondas transmissions to fail over time has been around for some time and in tests I carried out on Sensors drift, I found the sensors were causing the 2-3 change to extend even further, even when hot "and not really noticeable". Due to Sensor pressure drift and aging this would have caused the transmission to eventually fail if I hadn't replaced them. Replacing the sensors bought this back to normal (barely noticeable when cold). Years ago before Honda had DW-1, I preplaced the external filter (Magnefine) and swapped over to Redline synthetic ATF (when the world was supposed to end if we did so) and the trans is still perfect.

Unfortunately most problems start to show in that 2-3 shift (sometimes also 1-2 shift) through design and the fact that it's the most changed "through" gear in average driving conditions ( 2-3, 3-2, 3-4, 4-3.) I don't allow my trans to shift above 3rd in stop- start traffic and/or speeds below 60Km/h (37Mph).

Normally clutch pack faults show up as slippage (RPM will go up with no change in speed followed by a rough grab of the gear) soon followed by flaring when RPM can redline and the trans feels like it's in neutral before "sometimes" suddenly grabbing a gear really hard.

When you first noticed the condition I'm assuming you checked trans oil level at that time, did you note the colour of the oil when wiped on a white cloth or tissue? Whenever any transmission misbehaves the first things to check are oil level and colour. Depending on how old the oil is, if it's gone black pretty quickly you have a problem, if it's been in for around 30K and still had a good red tinge there "may" be other conditions causing this. Clutch slippage in both TQ and trans clutch packs will turn oil black pretty quickly from massive temperatures generated through slippage. Honda trans oil should be monitored regularly for any sudden change in colour, even if the trans feels ok.

If it really feels like it's shuddering then you need to talk to someone who services and rebuilds these HONDA transmissions, dealers normally replace the unit and don't/won't fault find. Again you're limited to a few external control valves and sensors but it's worth investigating as it appears your trans is not burning up at this stage.

There are a quite a few reports of that one type of lubeguard helping but any other additive in this type of trans can cause blockage of the tiny oil tubes, dropping clutch pressure and killing the trans.

If you're unsure then Fredsvt could give you a definitive answer on lubeguard. Shudder has been reported more so in the TL forums under certain power conditions, it's not normal in this transmission configuration.

Does it mean your trans is about to die? maybe not, but something is not quite right, in the meantime watch oil colour and stop at the first sign of a trans slip or flair, although if the shudder is caused by a clutch pack then it could be argued that it's a form of slippage.

It's also possible that the shudder in not originating in the Trans or TQ clutch packs, an oil additive could soften the engagement and hide the other minor cause - not suggesting (IN ANY WAY) that this is happening but just something to think about.

[davisenvy]

Now thats an answer!

I did a 3x drain and refill 13k miles ago. The fluid is at the correct level and still clear..ish, but definitely not not brown or black. I have some fresh fluid coming in the mail and I'll see what that does. In the mean time, I'm going to get the car cleaned up for some picks and then onto Autotrader.

I (wife) had a BMW 545i before this and sold it because it was a maintenance hog. I got a Honda because of its reputation for being "problem free". Changing the trans fluid every other oil change is not problem free. I'm not going to give this much attention to a Honda.

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted by MikeCz

If you're unsure then Fredsvt could give you a definitive answer on lubeguard. Shudder has been reported more so in the TL forums under certain power conditions, it's not normal in this transmission configuration.

I remember asking Fred about LG and he approves of it. From him below:

"never add any foreign substance to Honda transmissions, with Lubeguard being the only exception"

LG also has a an anti-shudder additive available on Amazon.

[Arkainzeye]

with the lubegard, I and others were just talking about the reason why i stressed the usage or the BLACK lubegard is here. http://www.lubegard.com/images/HFM_chart.gif

Ive also noticed in so many of the oil forums searches that our transmission should be using a fluid that is rates as HFM. we all know honda years ago changed their transmission fluid... This is part of the reason why... And when you read on here how others have had great luck with top of the line synthetic transmission fluids, this is also why. whereas the older honda transmission fluid was not HFM.. If you think about it this makes sense. The improved honda fluid has better/more friction modifiers, so does alot of these top of the line synthetic transmission fluids. This is why i mentioned if you use lubegard to use the Black bottle. The red bottle is not for our honda's.... for me and my honda (v6) there is a noticeable difference in how it shifts!

here is the link to the Red lubegard,http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-112/LUBE...uid+Protectant this one gives the benefits of using their product. same benefits as the black , except the black is HFM and designed for our application.