Headlight Dimming Flickering - Official Honda response

[ricallen]

Originally Posted by USAFRET

Actually that's not true. Mine do. That was the reason I called the dealer and made the appointment, even my wife noticed it and asked if something was wrong and she seldom pays attention to these things.

So let's just say some Honda's are more afflicted than others, but to say the lights "don't dim when driving" is FALSE.

Mine do as well; the same effect whether I am driving at 60 on the freeway or standing still (and mine is an '03). Like someone else pointed out, it is quite regular, occuring about every 17 seconds. I am not that concerned about it though (and it sounds like it is more extreme on the 8th gen), but was just glad to see that it is not a problem unique to my car.

[JustADude]

It appears that I've got it too.

4-cylinder '08 Accord

Ugh. Got a Saturn Vue '06 V-6 - do not notice this problem.
Had a '00 Saab 9-3 never noticed this problem.

If others are interested I would like to take the appropriate steps to raise this up to Honda as a larger safety issue

Does anyone have the equipment, maybe a video camera to capture and quantify the decrease in brightness and the length of time the lights are dim?

Would be interested to learn if anyone has tried to capture the problem on video? Think it would be pretty easy since this happens for me pretty consistently.

1st Honda for me and pretty disappointed to hear how the dealer handles it. Maybe it is time to raise this up to the Honda mother ship?

[KatanaPilot]

I don't believe that Honda will take any action on your complaints.

I had to utilize the State Lemon Law to get anywhere. The arbitration panel determined that the headlight dimming/flickering was indeed a defect or non-conformity and they have ordered Honda to buy back my vehicle.

It is cheaper for Honda to buy back a few of these cars than to recall hundreds of thousands for a very expensive repair. Until the economics change or until Honda gets a bad reputation for this defect, the only way you will get any satisfaction is to utilize your State's Lemon Law. It takes a lot of time and effort and most owners won't bother. Honda knows this and they will stonewall.

Don't let the dealers or Honda representative tell you this is normal. It is not. Visit the NHTSA ODI website. There are no complaints regarding headlight dimming/flickering for any 2007 Honda (any model) and no complaints for any 2008 Honda except for the Accord.

Your choices are (a) get used to it, (b) trade your car or (c) Lemon Law your car. Most people choose (a) or (b) and this is why Honda can afford not to do anything.

Good luck to you all.

[MSchu]

You make many assumptions Katana... NONE of them are factual

[Reybeast]

If you did the lemon law and won, please elaborate. I find the dimming headlight to be most annoying, people have actually flashed me since they thought I was flashing my headlights at them. I would especially like more detail about what you used to win the case...

[JustADude]

I agree with the Reybeast.

KatanaPilot - please provide any details you have to describe the steps you took to go through the process - data you had to provide and collect, etc.

Thanks again.

[danbudy]

I've just resigned myself to living with the defect. To me it is just an annoyance such as the road noise. Driving an hour to work in the dark everyday, it bothers me. But the road noise is horrible, and I put up with that.

My car 4 cyl Y2K 130k is too old, but if many of you could force Honda to take your car back, perhaps they would take action.

Maybe we could get the design improved. I don't notice my wives V-6 Pilot doing this, so they must have better designs. I have not seen this complaint on the Acura TSX boards that I read, and they have four cylinder engines.

Honda already has the solution, why do they not design it into the accord?

Think a TSX maybe my solution for this problem, and the road noise, just a couple more years to go.... must make it... HE HE. It's not like these are not livable, but they sure can drive you nuts, and make you hate the driving experience. We never take my car at night, my wife can't stand the constant dimming.

Dan.

[dgoff07]

Originally Posted by danbudy

I've just resigned myself to living with the defect. To me it is just an annoyance such as the road noise. Driving an hour to work in the dark everyday, it bothers me. But the road noise is horrible, and I put up with that.

My car 4 cyl Y2K 130k is too old, but if many of you could force Honda to take your car back, perhaps they would take action.

Maybe we could get the design improved. I don't notice my wives V-6 Pilot doing this, so they must have better designs. I have not seen this complaint on the Acura TSX boards that I read, and they have four cylinder engines.

Honda already has the solution, why do they not design it into the accord?

Think a TSX maybe my solution for this problem, and the road noise, just a couple more years to go.... must make it... HE HE. It's not like these are not livable, but they sure can drive you nuts, and make you hate the driving experience. We never take my car at night, my wife can't stand the constant dimming.

Dan.

The TSX has the same voltage oscillation. The TSX has HID headlights. Those require a ballast to raise the voltage to 20+ kilovolts for the lights to turn on. That number lowers to 80 or so after they are warmed up. Point being, there is a buffer of sorts between the headlights and battery on TSXs.

Your old car does the exact same thing. Take a look at a graph of the voltage over time. It looks like a square wave from 12.5 - 14.2 volts. I guarantee the graph for your 08 looks IDENTICAL.

V6s obviously don't have the exact same trait. That has been confirmed a dozen times already in this thread and all others like it.

You can turn off the ELD if it bothers you so much.

[stiller fan]

i have owned and driven hondas and one acura since i got my learner's permit 12 yrs ago....

every car (honda motor) that i have driven does this. it's not a big deal....

if you wanna see a big strain on the alternator, try having the high beams, rear defroster, and the 4-ways on.....with the car idling with the a/c on. THAT'S a drain!!!!

my 93 was known to have everything dim a bit moreso than usual, and i drove it that way til thee alternator went out in september last year.

my 99.... i haven't tested for all that drain as of yet... next time i come to the states, i will,and let you know (if i remember)....

EDIT: with the 93, if you are stepping on the gas, the dim goes away.... it only happens when stopped... and it's noticeable too....

[stanley2]

Originally Posted by dgoff07

You can turn off the ELD if it bothers you so much.

Can you elaborate on how to disable it??

Thanks a lot.

[dgoff07]

Originally Posted by stanley2

Can you elaborate on how to disable it??

Thanks a lot.

Well, I looked a little bit closer at the 8th gen and unfortunately, it behaves slightly different than my other hondas. In the past, turning on the headlights or reaching a certain speed would drop the voltage of the signal wire's that runs from the computer to the fuse box under the hood. It is just a 0-5 volt reference voltage just like what runs to the voltage regulator, but I'm not sure how to go about "tricking" the system. I'll ask around and look into it a bit more when I have a chance.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help yet.

[damadazkikr]

Originally Posted by Kupo

get HID's and the problem will go away... at least for me it did...

+1

[Bowzer]

Originally Posted by stiller fan

i have owned and driven hondas and one acura since i got my learner's permit 12 yrs ago....

every car (honda motor) that i have driven does this. it's not a big deal....

if you wanna see a big strain on the alternator, try having the high beams, rear defroster, and the 4-ways on.....with the car idling with the a/c on. THAT'S a drain!!!!

my 93 was known to have everything dim a bit moreso than usual, and i drove it that way til thee alternator went out in september last year.

my 99.... i haven't tested for all that drain as of yet... next time i come to the states, i will,and let you know (if i remember)....

EDIT: with the 93, if you are stepping on the gas, the dim goes away.... it only happens when stopped... and it's noticeable too....

All of mine since 84 have done the same. And don't bother to check your 6th gen as it will not be different. It's never something that bothered me that much. I know to take note when it gets worse as that's the signal that the battery is weakening.

Not sure if this is something worse on the 8th gen itself or a new group of buyers taking note. I guess some could consider it a "defect" if that bothersome but not sure why it would be that much of a performance or safety issue since it's less than a second.

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by JustADude

I agree with the Reybeast.

KatanaPilot - please provide any details you have to describe the steps you took to go through the process - data you had to provide and collect, etc.

Thanks again.

I am sorry it has taken so long to respond. I do not get automatic updates on the posts to this forum and I have not been following much since my case has been decided by the State.

Here are the steps I followed -

1. Determine the requirements of the Warranty Rights Act (Lemon Law) for your State. Every State is slightly different. Contact the agency that is responsible for compliance in your State. Here in Georgia it is the Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs.
2. Take your vehicle to your dealer (or dealers) the required number of times for the defect. If the dealer refuses to document the problem, make a note about the details and contact the state agency responsible. You may have to visit several different dealers and you may want to meet directly with the service managers.
3. After you have met the required number of service attempts, you have to provide notice to Honda for a final repair attempt. They may or may not contact you. If they do, follow the instructions. If not, you have met the requirements anyway.
4. Since they cannot fix this defect, you will have met the test for a repurchase or replacement of the vehicle. No point in asking for a replacement, as they all have this defect, so you will want repurchase.
5. Honda will refuse to repurchase or replace, so you will have to go to arbitration.
6. The arbitration is fairly simple. I prepared a PowerPoint presentation with all of my documentation. Honda only offered the December 2000 Tech News as their defense.
7. I prepared a bar chart that showed complaints from the NHTSA ODI database. I compared all 2008 Honda vehicles as well as 2007 Honda vehicles. 70% of the complaints for the 2008 Accord were for headlight dimming/flickering. There were NONE for any other Honda model in 2008 and NONE for any 2007 Honda, including the Accord.
8. Honda was unable to refute the NHTSA data and was unable to answer why there were so many complaints for the 08 Accord and none for any other vehicle - this despite their claim that this "characteristic" is present on all Honda's since the late 1990's.
9. They were also unable (or unwilling) to provide any data (like warranty claims) to refute my claims or to verify theirs.
10. I also had a friend who has owned 10 Hondas and Acuras, sold and worked on cars and was an Air Force electrical systems technician (and has an aeronautical engineering degree). He was my expert witness and explained that he has never seen any other vehicle with this defect and his contention is that the problem will get worse and have a negative effect on the systems of the vehicle.
11. You can subpoena witnesses (like the service managers or technicians) if you need to. It may add some time to the process, but you may need their testimony. They will likely not come willingly.

After hearing my presentation and Honda's, the arbitration panel agreed that the dimming/flickering was a defect (non-conformity) and ordered Honda to buy back the vehicle.

It was a bit of a pain, but it will be worth it when it is all done. I am just waiting for Honda to complete the process.

Good luck guys and don't give up! (And don't listen to the rants of Mr. Schumacher!)

[ProMod]

This is really starting to annoy me on my 08 Sedan. It didn't at first, but I think after the time change, I am driving more at night and it is bugging the piss out of me.

Was there ever a final answer as to whether or not installing a bigger, higher reserve battery solved the problem?