Article: How often should the ATF be changed?

[wardenr]

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

I assume then, you also change your engine oil every 3000 miles or less, unless you run Redline or other synthetic? Is that where this is going? A syn vs dyno debate? Whatever...

And since Honda is building a transmission rebuild shop, you automatically assume their transmissions are garbage and their ATF is "trashed" after 3k miles when run within.

Are you a Honda basher or something? There's other forums for that...

Sir/Madam:

Please redirect your questions/commentary to FredSVT. He is a DA Moderator and EXPERT Mechanic. And MY views so happen to perfectly agree with HIS. Catch my drift?

[elp_jc]

Every car I've owned has had a tranny drain plug, so wonder when that article was written .
And Honda trannies are not the typical (and more robust) planetary gear ones, so you'd be crazy to push the envelope with one, especially in hot climates. And yes, that's also why they require a different fluid. Rather than 3X every 30K miles, I change the oil on my CRV 1X every 10K; same cost, and you always keep semi-fresh fluid in there. It takes me minutes to do, and leave it draining overnight. Cheap insurance if you ask me.

[SatinSilver]

The 2010 Camrys do NOT have an ATF dipstick anymore. The automatic is also a 6 speed now. I thought it was kind of interesting since my has an 07 and both cars use the same WS atf.

Fwiw the dealer recommends a 60k replacement for the WS.

[wardenr]

Originally Posted by SatinSilver

The 2010 Camrys do NOT have an ATF dipstick anymore. The automatic is also a 6 speed now. I thought it was kind of interesting since my has an 07 and both cars use the same WS atf.

Fwiw the dealer recommends a 60k replacement for the WS.

Over time, I've seen the major components become as disposable as the minor ones.

Ergo, engines and trannies have ostensibly become incorporated into the same component class as starters, alternators, brakes, etcetera. Use until they fail, then "YAR" it. As in, yank and replace.

[cajun]

Originally Posted by SatinSilver

Fwiw the dealer recommends a 60k replacement for the WS.

Interesting..."WS" is Toyota's synth "Lifetime ATF" but your dealer wants to change it at 60K. My Toyo has dino "T-IV" ATF, but my owner's manual and dealer both only recommend a visual inspection of the fluid for the life of the vehicle. A couple of friends have the same gen Sienna as me, and their original T-IV ATF looks close to new at >100K miles.

[SatinSilver]

The same dealer also says that they recommend replacement of the Type - IV at 30k. They want $70 for a D/F and $150 for a full flush.

Nice to hear the fluid still looks good around 100k.

Over on Bitog, some uoa's reveal T-IV should probably be replaced at 30k from what I remember.

[cajun]

Just called my Toyo dealer - $180/flush or $5/quart to buy T-IV. Yours is making some $$$ on the $70 D/F (assuming <3 qts drain out and assuming your plug is easy to get to).

[wardenr]

Originally Posted by cajun

Interesting..."WS" is Toyota's synth "Lifetime ATF" but your dealer wants to change it at 60K. My Toyo has dino "T-IV" ATF, but my owner's manual and dealer both only recommend a visual inspection of the fluid for the life of the vehicle. A couple of friends have the same gen Sienna as me, and their original T-IV ATF looks close to new at >100K miles.

Bear in mind that most Toyota ATs involve a conventional, Planetary-style gearbox. They are far more durable...and trouble-free.

[RinconVTR]

Originally Posted by wardenr

Bear in mind that most Toyota ATs involve a conventional, Planetary-style gearbox. They are far more durable...and trouble-free.

Uh huh. Toyota never has engine or tranny failures.

Statistics anyone? Manufacturing “fall out rate”? Or how about "failure rate"? (there are more terms for the same thing) Anyway…lets say a manufacture sells 500,000 cars in one year, they cant all be “perfect” right? What’s a fair failure rate? 10% ,5%, 1%, or how about just ½% ??? Lets take ½% field failure rate out of 500,000 cars. That’s 2500 tranny’s bound to fail. 1% would be 5,000. Those are high numbers, right? Well, now add in multiple years, and models. THAT’S A HIGH NUMBER!!! But not statistically. The world is not perfect, and nothing has a ZERO failure rate in manufacturing.

Originally Posted by wardenr

Sir/Madam:

Please redirect your questions/commentary to FredSVT. He is a DA Moderator and EXPERT Mechanic. And MY views so happen to perfectly agree with HIS. Catch my drift?

You're trying to threaten me because I challenged you? A new low.

Ironic, because I will often foolishly follow people to lower levels and debate/aurgue a point I feel strongly about (when I have the time), but you Wardenr, have gone underground.

FredSVT can speak for himself...and I HIGHLY doubt he tells his customers to change ATF every 3k miles. Thats laughable.

How bout you provide some facts that "perfectly agree" with you?

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted by cajun

Just called my Toyo dealer - $180/flush or $5/quart to buy T-IV. Yours is making some $$$ on the $70 D/F (assuming <3 qts drain out and assuming your plug is easy to get to).

Yep plug is easy to get to. Just like the Accord but on the drivers side. Even the plug is identical to the Accords. Only bad thing is its probably torqued to 300lbs.

Theres also a servicable trans filter but the pan needs to be removed for access. Your Sienna is prob similiar. From reading some toyo forums the earliest the filter should be replaced is at 60k.

[wardenr]

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

You're trying to threaten me because I challenged you? A new low.

Ironic, because I will often foolishly follow people to lower levels and debate/aurgue a point I feel strongly about (when I have the time), but you Wardenr, have gone underground.

FredSVT can speak for himself...and I HIGHLY doubt he tells his customers to change ATF every 3k miles. Thats laughable.

How bout you provide some facts that "perfectly agree" with you?

RinconVTR:

Quite to the contrary. NO "threat," only my directive to debate YOUR opinions about Honda Z-1 ATF and AT cooling with FredSVT. Ask Fred WHY he uses Red Line in his F150 "Lightning" and his '98 V6 Accord. As I said, MY views so happen to perfectly agree with HIS. And yes, Fred speaks the truth, so eloquently, without assistance from me or anyone else. Here is but a small excerpt of his considered thoughts regarding transmission coolers:
************************************************** ************************************************

Originally Posted by Fredsvt
Hi Robert,

"It's not just Gen 6. Any Honda built since 1998 need this done. Look at the number of Odyssey trans failures. They have no external cooler. I'm sorry, but a 4400 lb van in gen 2 Odys is too much for a non-cooled unit.

The Ridge and Pilot can be equipped with a chintzy external cooler when you ask for the trailer tow stuff. Supposedly the newer ones come with it standard. If it's anything like the older ones, it's junk.

The last one I've seen was a single elongated U shaped tube with some fins on it.

The Ridge and Pilot need an external filter put on as it's cartridge filter is inaccessible in the bell housing."

[aeoporta]

As the argument goes i agree with changing the fluid more often. In terms of atf fluid: Redline D4, Amsoil or Valvoline Maxlife. For my moms odyssey will be switching to valvoline maxlife as that seems to work best with odyssey and chaning every 20k max or so, afterwards aka when out of warranty then i might put on the tranny cooler.
As for my car i am at the 15 to 20k range on my 4cyl 09 accord, but the only thing I am not sure about is if I should flush the z1 with no chems added or do the drain and refill cycle since I am switching from z1 to redline? sorry first honda so am a bit clueless.

[wardenr]

Originally Posted by aeoporta

As the argument goes i agree with changing the fluid more often. In terms of atf fluid: Redline D4, Amsoil or Valvoline Maxlife. For my moms odyssey will be switching to valvoline maxlife as that seems to work best with odyssey and chaning every 20k max or so, afterwards aka when out of warranty then i might put on the tranny cooler.
As for my car i am at the 15 to 20k range on my 4cyl 09 accord, but the only thing I am not sure about is if I should flush the z1 with no chems added or do the drain and refill cycle since I am switching from z1 to redline? sorry first honda so am a bit clueless.

Aeoporta:

Do NOT, under any circumstances, "flush" your AT with any mechanical (pressurized) system. Do NOT use any chemicals.

If you care to convert to a fully-synthetic ATF (e.g., Red Line, AmsOil, Mobil One, Valvoline, Royal Purple, etc.), perform ONLY a four-event D&R procedure, specified by HMC.

[aeoporta]

thanks for the clarification wardenr, that was the only thing I was not clear on. I know hondas do the d&r but since i was switching atf fluids i was not certain what the procedure was. Now i can happily have my redline also gotta get a magnefine filter. On the whole tranny atf issues, my g/f has a cvt mini cooper, when that baby fails its gonna be 8k repair and they fail real nicely, bmw solution is that you should change their tranny fluid every 5k, needless to say I am trying my best to avoid all tranny issues this year , thanks again.

[wardenr]

Originally Posted by aeoporta

thanks for the clarification wardenr, that was the only thing I was not clear on. I know hondas do the d&r but since i was switching atf fluids i was not certain what the procedure was. Now i can happily have my redline also gotta get a magnefine filter. On the whole tranny atf issues, my g/f has a cvt mini cooper, when that baby fails its gonna be 8k repair and they fail real nicely, bmw solution is that you should change their tranny fluid every 5k, needless to say I am trying my best to avoid all tranny issues this year , thanks again.

Aeoporta:

While voluminous and ponderous, you may care to study "The Continuing Saga..." thread in the Gen Six forum. You will find valuable information applicable to ANY Honda 4/5 AT, from 1998 to present.