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My I4 Engine Takes 5 Qt of Oil with a new filter not 4.4 Qt

66K views 153 replies 79 participants last post by  KsiPhone 
#1 ·
Just replaced the factory oil at 3000 miles. The I4 engine took full 5 qts oil with a new 15400-PLM-A01 filter. Not necessarily a helpful indication but the oil was much darker than I expected. Just have 5 qts of your favorite oil ready when you are replacing the oil and filter. The manual says 4.4 qts with a new filter.
 
#3 ·
I agree with glen. I had 2 8gen accord and never changed the oil until it was time. Both cars I put over 45k in less than 2 years each. That oil you just took out was protecting your internals during break in and putting 5 quarts wasn't so smart. I suggest you drain out the over flow.

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#6 ·
4.4 Qts were not enough

Look I am not going to debate about the special break in oil as that was not my intent of the thread. When I poured 4.4 qts, the level was below the lower level. I ran the engine until warm and waited a few minutes before checking the dip stick but the oil level was still below the low mark. After I poured the remaining 0.6 qt then restarted the car for a few minutes. Waited anther two minutes before checking the oil dip stick. Now the dip stick showed full and not over. You can use my observation any way you like but I4 takes 5 qts. When I poured the oil back into the 5 qt M-1container, it was slightly less due too some oil in the old filter.
 
#8 ·
Look I am not going to debate about the special break in oil as that was not my intent of the thread. When I poured 4.4 qts, the level was below the lower level. I ran the engine until warm and waited a few minutes before checking the dip stick but the oil level was still below the low mark. After I poured the remaining 0.6 qt then restarted the car for a few minutes. Waited anther two minutes before checking the oil dip stick. Now the dip stick showed full and not over. You can use my observation any way you like but I4 takes 5 qts. When I poured the oil back into the 5 qt M-1container, it was slightly less due too some oil in the old filter.
sorry... but you will be the 1st I4 Honda engine that takes 5 qts....find it hard to believe that the manual is wrong and you are right....don't get indignant that we don't agree with you, let it go...happy motoring....
 
#18 · (Edited)
Edit: As pointed out by JohnWill (see below), the total oil capcity is not stated in the 2013 owner's manual. Oh well . . .

Perhaps I can resolve this, gentlemen: You're both correct.

If you look in your owners' manuals, at the back of the manual is a section titled "Specifications." (This is not the same as the "Service Information Summary" at the very back of the manual.) In the Specifications section under Engine Oil, you'll see there are three capacities listed: "Including filter 4.4 US qt"; "Without filter, 4.2 US qt," and "Total, 5.6 qt." (Emphasis added.)

So, I can tell you from experience that, if your Accord is level or roughly so when you drain the crankcase and you've changed your filter, it will take about four-and-a-half quarts to refill the oil sump. On the other hand, because there's always about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of a US quart left in your engine after you change your oil (didn't know that, did you?), if you raise the front end a foot or so, or raise one side of the car and then drain your oil (and change the filter), it will easily take 4.8 to 5 quarts of oil to refill the sump & filter.

So, MN_Runner, there's nothing particularly unusual about your Honda taking five quarts of oil. Motor on.
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
Droved 35 miles and rechecked the dip stick. The oil level right at the max level. I will just need to wait until someone else has the same observation.

Perhaps I can resolve this, gentlemen: You're both correct.

So, MN_Runner, there's nothing particularly unusual about your Honda taking five quarts of oil. Motor on.
Merry Christmas!

I change cars because I can, just because I'm not going to keep it doesn't mean I can't take care of it or maintain it. I know that the person that gets the car will get a well taken care car.

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Do you get thank you letters from the buyers saying how you saved the engine and well you have maintained them?
 
#24 ·
Seriously - anyone who even comments on the color of engine oil is completely full of it. To top it off, there are real reasons why Honda says NOT to change your engine oil so early:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/top-7-urban-legends-about-motor-oil.html

4. Check the oil on the dipstick. If it's black, change the oil. Experts say this is a myth, as is the related notion that you can identify spent oil by smell. "That is old school," says Kristen Huff, vice president of Blackstone Laboratories in Fort Wayne, Indiana. "Oil is meant to get dark — it means it's doing its job," she says. As GM's Matt Snider says in this video, different additives change the oil's color. The bottom line: Black oil still has plenty of life left in it.

5. When you buy a new car, change your oil at 3,000 miles to remove metal particles from the engine break-in process. There might be a grain of truth to this, according to the experts at Blackstone. Oil samples from engines during the first 3,000 miles of driving show elevated "wear-in" metal levels, coming from the pistons and camshafts, says Ryan Stark, Blackstone's president. But he added, "To me, it doesn't make that much difference because if the filings are big enough to cause damage, they will be taken out by the oil filter."

However, a Honda spokesman says its cars come from the factory with a special oil formulation for the break-in period. Honda advises owners to not change the oil early. Stark said Blackstone Laboratories' test of Honda's break-in oil shows it contains molybdenum-disulfide, an anti-wear additive. But Stark said Honda is the only manufacturer he knows that's using special break-in oil. The take-away? If there are any special break-in recommendations from the manufacturer, follow them. And consider analyzing the oil at 3,000 miles.
 
#32 ·
So should I drive car with low oil level?



I will make sure I take my car into your dealership and have the oil personally changed by you - probably not. I suggest you get ready for CVT failures in a few years, which should keep you dealership busy.

I trust the manual book but also have to trust the dip stick for the final confirmation. The oil level was below the low level with 4.4qts. The level did not come up to max level until remaining 0.6 qt was poured. I had my doubts, but after pouring back the old oil back into M1 5qt jug, I was comfortable. I checked the oil level on the dip stick before the change as well. On Honda Odyssey I do not have to jack up the car to change the oil since I can fit under the car very well (5'7" body with 128 lb weight). The Accord, I did jack it up to get access. It took a long time to get the oil out. The Mechanic is correct and makes sense.

I have been doing my thing for some time (changing out the first oil at 3000 miles or so). Here are my results: Purchased new 1998 Honda Odyssey traded in at 148K (no oil consumption other than the dealer fXXXed the timeing belt change so it jumped) for a brand new 2002 Honda Odyssey then traded it in at 98K (no oil consumption issue other than really bad transmission) for a brand new 05 Odyssey new, which has 86K (no oil consumption issue but the jury is out on transmission). Bought a brand new 2007 Camry and traded it in at 140K (consumed oil from the start and well known issue on these I4) for 2013 Accord. If my 13 Accord is going to fail, it will be the CVT transmission or DI going bad and I doubht my engine is going to go bad.

I trust the manual but the dip stick has the final say for me.
 
#33 ·
Thanks. But, this is not in my manual. The 2013 manual.
You're right, John. I found a link to p. 573 in the 2013 owner's manual (link below), and the total oil capacity of the engine is no longer listed. My error. I've edited my prior comments to reflect that.

As I noted in my edited posts above, it's my hunch that listing the total capacity added confusion.

http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/2A1313/2A1313OM.pdf

As an aside, it amazes me how many pages (596) are in the owner's manual now. It's no longer a "manual," it's a treatise!
 
#29 ·
OP read up

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#30 ·
Text Blue Font Line Screenshot


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#34 ·
This debate has gone on here since the debut of the 2.4l in 2003. Many have stated that the dipstick showed low when the correct amount of oil was used. Many have used five full quarts with a filter change to get it to show properly on the stick. I can't explain why but it is commonplace. None to my knowledge ever had problems using five full quarts. Had the dipstick on mine showed low then I too would have added the remaining 1/2 quart until it showed full.

My '04 always took 4.5 quarts with a new filter and registered full on the stick. That was with the front end on ramps and allowing a 30 minute drain. Also I dumped the factory fill @ 3500 miles and went to Mobil 1 0W20 before anyone had even heard of the stuff. The only time it ever consumed any measurable amount of oil was in the first 3500 miles, about 3/4 of a quart.
 
#35 ·
Wow. What a discussion. The answer is simple. There can be some variability car to car depending on how it is positioned and how long you let the oil drain. I have no doubt his car used 5 qts and others may use 4.4.
 
#36 ·
Peter Griffin: oh my god who cares.

Fill the thing until the dipstick says full after the engine has run. The specs are guidelines and last I checked you would have to grossly overfill to cause a problem...half quart isn't enough. Engineers are good about safety margins for stupidity/mistakes of end users.

Re factory fill...dumped mine at 2k and fill with Redline..high moly similar to factory fill. Expensive at 11 bucks a quart but oh well.
 
#37 ·
Peter Griffin: oh my god who cares[?]

Re factory fill...dumped mine at 2k and fill with Redline..high moly similar to factory fill. Expensive at 11 bucks a quart but oh well.
You think this thread is bad? You need to spend some time on www.bobistheoilguy.com. Now that's some serious OCD!

Come to think of it, since you're an early-changer and a Redline guy, maybe you're one as well? :D
 
#39 ·
I just wanted to say I just changed the oil in my 7th gen and used 4.7 quarts and after two days I'm still low. Put the last .3q in and now I'm riding clean at the full mark.

Btw the big Mobil 1 oil cans that used to be 5.12q size are now 4.72q for the same price. I had to buy another quart of oil just to top it off. Merry Christmas.


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#43 ·
Really? Are they still sold as "5 qt jugs" as a marketing trick, since technically the container is 5 qts it doesn't mean it's filled with 5 qts?

This also brings up a side point that I'll round my oil and atf fills to the nearest .5 qt so I don't end up with a container sitting around for a long time being contaminated by the air.
 
#44 ·
Wal-Mart 5 Qt M1 Jug

The M1 jug labeling says 5 US Qts. So I have to believe the jug contains 5 US qts +/- some tolerance. I believe it because whether I buy 5 individual qts or 5 qt jug, I will have about 0.5 qt remaining after replacing the oil in my 05 Odyssey. Not sure where he got that information.
 
#53 ·
I skipped ahead on this thread. Just changed my MIL's oil. 2012 CRV with basically same I4 as the accord. Manual said 4.something quarts. Took full 5 qts to bring it near upper line on dipstick.
Ran engine twice and allowed time for oil drain back. At 4.5 qts it was just below the LOW line.
 
#56 ·
Thx kings. Looks like enough evidence for me to want to have one of these. Currently I have a mag drain plug. Looks like $50 beans from them on their website -- do you know of any place that has them for a better price? thanks.
 
#66 ·
Might try AMZN. I have not bought one in years but might need to since the tiny lawnmower sized filter on tha Accord does not fit the Filtermag from my 300C-it sticks on fine but does not have the full curvature of contact.


No way to run a bolt magnet and a Fumato valve. I use the Fumato on all my cars and move it from car to car at trade in time, just store in a zip lock. I keep the old drain bolt in the tool area or glove box and swap out before trade. I use a gloved finger to plug the hole after removing the valve and put the old bolt back in. Usually lose less than 1/4 a qt of oil.

I get the nipple version and leave a rubber hose attached and tucked somewhere. Makes DIY oil changes a pleasure. Once I open the valve with the hose pointed to the bin, I go watch TV and come back out 15 min later (it does not take that long) or longer if the game is good, close the valve, tuk the hose, do the filter (fill the new filter with oil), and voila.

Irony can be so ironic sometimes. I go by the dipstick too and I don't care what the manual says other than a guide.

Why did I get so ticked off at glen e? The phrase "indignant" got me a bit irritated because it really wasn't true. It just went south from that point on. He is entitled to the 1st admendment.

Purpose my thread: I was just trying to pass some information regarding the oil quantity and nothing more. I was not trying to talk about the virtue of factory oil or the art of an early change.

Why did I change the oil at 3000 miles: The viscosity (thickness) of the oil changed around 2000 miles and felt much thicker compared to the oil at 1000 miles. I was not smoking anything. It almost had a gel-like consistency. I just did not like the way oil thickened up. Not sure if DI is making the engine run hot and causing the oil to age a little quicker. Obviously it is up to you to change the oil anytime you want. If you don't believe me, check the viscosity (with your fingers - not very scientific) of the oil as your MM goes from 100% to 10%. I just think (for me only), the DI engine is running much hotter and I am not sure if this is causing the oil to thicken up faster. I am just trying to share my observations and have no hidden agenda.

With synhetic oil, a hotter engine does not matter-not sure it is really hotter with DI, my temp guage sees the same as my Acuras tnd they are not DI. I am concerned about thicker oil and moisture build up. Audi has had massive problems with carbon build up on intake valves on their FSI (DI) engine because of venting and EGR issues. IIRC Nissan/Mitsu invented GDI in the late 80s and the Japanese (and GM ) have got it right. Audi has a major design flaw. I won't bother to post a link but google has very ugly info on their problems. I was on the Audi forum before I got the 750 and as much as I love them, I'll never own one.

With DI, fuel never touches the intake valve so Techron is of no value to keep them clean. A proper crank case venting and EGR will prevent the build up of carbon and moisture in the oil. The exhaust valve is not an issue because everything is burned off.

I'll check the vis, I am at 3100. When I do change, I am going full synthetic most likely Penzoil Platinum.
 
#57 ·
i never heard of fumoto valve and googled it when i saw it on pg 2 of this thread.
VERY interesting...
but what if i want a magnet drain plug AND the valve?
only option is valve and filter magnet?

the whole reason i have an accord is because i went to get my oil changed on my 2012 civic HF, and they turned me away because my oil life was still at 60% after 2,800 miles.
i walked into the showroom (at request of my 4y/o son) and POW! there was the new accord i hadnt seen until then. i did my best Fry saying "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!"
super happy ever since.
and no, im not changing my oil until 5,000 miles or 15% engine oil life.
and im having the techs do it to shwo proper maintenance on thier files.
(i have tinkered on my own cars for 17+ years doing everything from engine swaps to suspension installs. i can handle a simple oil change but want proper records for a new car that is leased.)

as for the capacity? i guess the debated ammount is over half a quart. hmm. i agree with following the dipstick. as ironic as that sounds...
 
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