Edmunds Consumer Comparison test - another Accord win

[talon95]

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

The 2008 Accord LX-P squeaks out a victory over the 2008 Chevy Malibu 2LT; both trounce the 2007 Toyota Camry LE.

I really enjoyed reading this comparison, and I consider it to be an important viewpoint that we don’t often see. We see tests and comparisons from automotive journalists, who sometimes have an unrealistic “all cars should be sports cars” mentality and are often not part of the target market for family sedans. We also see a lot of comments from fans and detractors, who are often somewhat territorial and biased regarding the cars they drive, and sometimes not very objective.

This comparison takes regular people from all walks of life… not journalists, not fans, but regular people, and asks them to evaluate cars that they could very well actually buy. It’s great to see this viewpoint, because I think it’s more representative of how the cars are perceived by the general public, rather than the narrower viewpoints of journalists and fans/detractors. The testers ranked the 3 cars and the final tally was Accord – 9, Malibu – 10, and Camry – 17 (total of the rankings, lower is better).

A few interesting highlights:

• Once again, when the Camry is represented by one of the non-sporty, softly sprung versions that people actually buy, vs. the low volume bogey “anti-Camry” Camry SE, we see how easily the competition bests it. The Camry SE exists not primarily to sell, but to attempt to create a perception that the Camry isn’t the marshmallow “Japanese Buick” that lunges and lurches around corners and curves (even though 97% of all Camrys actually are that “Japanese Buick”).
• The Camry was bottom ranked by 5 out of 6 testers, with the 6th tester giving it a 2.
• The Accord and the Malibu were each top ranked by 3 testers. The Accord won by virtue of the fact that none of the testers bottom ranked it, while 1 tester bottom ranked the Malibu.

Given that the ’08 Accord’s styling has been the topic of so much controversy on these forums, I was very interested to see the reaction to the Accord’s styling by these testers, which I would expect to be a good representation of the opinions of the general public. Of the 6 testers, 3 praised the Accord’s styling, one said it’s more luxurious looking than its predecessor but mundane compared to the coupe, and the other 2 didn’t comment on styling. Most importantly, IMO, is that none of them trashed the styling or called it ugly. This lines up well with my personal experience… I’ve had very positive reactions to my Accord’s styling from everyone who has seen it.

Finally, I think the key message about this and other recent tests is that Toyota and Honda had best take the Malibu seriously. It looks like they have another serious competitor on their hands, as long as it doesn’t come up with any significant quality issues. And it does have that long warranty to fall back on... that approach worked for Hyundai.

[Accordlover]

I missed where it said the Accord won?

I thought it was a tie between the Malibu and the Accord?

[Accordlover]

Originally Posted by talon95

Finally, I think the key message about this and other recent tests is that Toyota and Honda had best take the Malibu seriously. It looks like they have another serious competitor on their hands, as long as it doesn’t come up with any significant quality issues. And it does have that long warranty to fall back on... that approach worked for Hyundai.

A true statement.

But.

In all honesty, if any of the people in my family who owned or had owned an Accord were out looking for another sedan they'd go straight to the Honda dealership solely based of prior experience. Very few of them, if any would bother testing the competition either.

My Mom test drove a Toyota back in the 80's when she bought her 84 Accord. - since she's bought 3 more Accords and leased a TSX. She never did any comparison shopping.

My Dad bought his 03 Accord because of how great the 4 my mother had owned were. He didn't do any comparison shopping.

My godfather bought his 03 Accord because of how great his Civic Wagovan was to him over the years.

The list goes on but the overall point is that the majority of Honda and Toyota buyers are or will be loyal to the brand name for future vehicle needs and many won't even look at the competition.

I expect to once again see the Malibu in rental car fleets and the Camry or Accord will top sales charts. - Obviously people who buy the Camry like it's disconnectedness. Why would they leave that for what appears to be the sportiest ride of the group in the Malibu?

GM has brought it this time, but I think they've failed to appeal to what the majority of American car shoppers apparently want and love. A Japanese Buick.

[talon95]

Originally Posted by Accordlover

I missed where it said the Accord won?

I thought it was a tie between the Malibu and the Accord?

They never made a specific announcement of a winner, or at least I couldn't find it. It was simple to figure out, though. I just went through the rankings of the 6 testers and totaled them. The lowest number gave it the highest total rating.

Accord - First x 3, Second x 3 = 3 + 6 = 9
Malibu - First x 3, Second x 2, Third x 1 = 3 + 4 + 3 = 10
Camry - Second x 1, Third x 5 = 2 + 15 = 17

[talon95]

As for the "threat" to Honda and Toyota, I don't think there's going to be any major issue for the immediate term. Many people are still pretty leery about GM's quality. But if Malibu continues to do as well as it has in comparisons, and if by chance GM has also gotten the quality thing right and that comes out in next year's JD Power and CR reliability ratings, that's going to get people's attention. That probably won't sway the Honda and Toyota loyalists, but it may cause potential new customers to consider the Malibu as well as Accord and Camry. Which could cost the latter 2 some sales.

I'm not suggesting that the sky is falling, I'm just saying that if I were product management at Honda or Toyota, now is not the time for complacency.

[daavo]

You both make some good points about the Malibu.

Chevrolet has an image problem and turning that around could take decades considering that most younger folks are really into their Nissans, Honda's, Lexi etc and don't see value or excitement in GM. That will be the hardest thing for GM to overcome as their cars start to improve.

They have gotten a lot better on their new car ramp ups. The platform has been in use by the Saturn Aura for some time now and the engine has been around for a couple of years as well. It's safe to say that it probably won't be a disastrous launch for gm.

I checked the malibu out, didn't drive it. It is better than past malibus but little things, like the cubby hole in front of the shifter are missing. And the seats kept making a scrunching noise like foam rubbing against foam. And the interior is pretty narrow. While the 8th gen has probably the best door slams in the segment, the Malibus' doors make a cheap sound when they are slammed. I know these are little things and others may not care, but those are things that I notice.

But the biggest problem for me is the residuals. If I trade in every three years, do I really want to lose 4-6k of value at that time due to depreciation . That would be pure loss and I'm not willing to take it. In that case I could have bought an accord with more options (EX, V6, nav, etc) for the same overall price as a much cheaper malibu. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[pahns51]

One person (Rick Bancroft)who picked the Malibu because of it's extensive PT(power train) warranty over the Accords 3/36 PT warranty is mistaken. The Accord has a 5/60 PT warranty. Lets get the facts correct!

[talon95]

Originally Posted by pahns51

One person (Rick Bancroft)who picked the Malibu because of it's extensive PT(power train) warranty over the Accords 3/36 PT warranty is mistaken. The Accord has a 5/60 PT warranty. Lets get the facts correct!

Good question! Don't know how I missed that, since I'm such a slave to detail...

I sent an e-mail to the editor of that article, pointing out the mistake and asking if the correct warranty information would prompt Mr. Bancroft to change his ranking. I doubt it, since the article is already in the can, but it can't hurt to ask.

[buster]

This Malibu is entirely new and its fit and finish is just as good, if not better, than Honda or Toyota. If GM can prove that it really has improved quality control in its manufacturing process, if they are using better components and can prove that their cars will be as dependable as Honda's, then based on what I drove on test day, I would pick the Chevy as the winner.

[mkaresh]

Especially when you're dealing with subjective evaluations, six is far from a sufficient sample. And I'm saying this as someone who provides reliability results based on as few as 25 cars (and as few as twelve with an asterisk)

That said, this article does indicate that the cars are close enough that some people will prefer one while other people will prefer the other. I just wouldn't read more into it than that.

As for the Camry vs. the Camry SE, the SE is available to as many people as want one, and dealers do stock them, so I personally think it should have been the version used in this comparison. It's not like those $19995 cars that only exist for advertising purposes and are never on dealer lots.

[talon95]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

As for the Camry vs. the Camry SE, the SE is available to as many people as want one, and dealers do stock them, so I personally think it should have been the version used in this comparison. It's not like those $19995 cars that only exist for advertising purposes and are never on dealer lots.

If this refers to my initial post, I didn't say that the SE wasn't available for sale, just that the SE is not intended to be a volume seller for Toyota. Despite the fact that it's available to as many people as want one, it still only accounts for ~3% of Camry sales. So clearly, not that many people want one.

But I'm unclear regarding the rationale of your position that the Camry SE should have been used. What would be accomplished by including the very low volume Camry SE in this family car comparison in place of the high volume Camry LE? 97% of the potential Camry buyers who would read that comparison would see a test of a car that differs fundamentally from the car that they're likely to buy. It jettisons the familiar family-friendly soft ride of all other Camry models and provides handling that this large group of people would not be experiencing. In a number of key characteristics, the Camry SE is completely non-representative of the vast majority of Camrys on the road. Why would it make sense for Edmunds to choose a version of the Camry that would provide meaningful results to only 3% of Camry buyers instead of one that would provide meaningful results to 97% of those buyers? Isn't the point to provide a test of the Camry that's the most representative of the one that the vast majority of people will buy, rather than a test of a version that only a comparative handful of people would buy, but would give the Camry a better chance of winning the comparison?

[Accordlover]

I agree with talon.

The SE won in a few comparo's against the 08 Accord and other rivals. It's not accurate to compare the SE when it's not the volume seller and it differs drastically compared to a LE or XLE handling wise when the majority of Camry sales are LE models.

[mkaresh]

I figured the 3% was a guestimate made for sake of argument. Is that the actual percentage?

I would have guessed higher, perhaps 15%. Even then, you'd be right that the SE is not the trim that's usually purchased.

BUT since Edmunds and such put such a high priority on handling, they are suggesting that the people reading the reviews should care about handling, and thus if they're going to buy a Camry should buy the SE.

In other words, they might have to do Toyota's job for them and say "This review does not pertain to the CE/LE/XLE. If you want to buy a Camry, we only recommend the SE." Or something to that effect.

Sure, the non-SE presents weaker competition for the Accord, and is the car most people buy. But there are also more players on the bench than there are starters. Does this make a victory against a team that plays its bench rather than its starters (perhaps because they already have a lock on the playoffs) entirely valid and satisfying?

If you're testing hammers, then test the best hammer, not a screwdriver, even if screwdrivers outnumber hammers.

All of this said, I can see both points of view, and will readily acknowledge that there's no objective way to settle this one.