2003 I4 idling problem, code P0507 - Drive Accord Honda Forums

Go Back   Drive Accord Honda Forums > Honda Accord Main Forums > The 7th Generation

Drive Honda Accord Forums
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-26-2008, 07:00 PM
MasTRE's Avatar
MasTRE MasTRE is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 324
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unhappy 2003 I4 idling problem, code P0507

I haven't started this car in 6 weeks, I went to start it a week ago and the battery was dead. Called a friend over this weekend and got a boost, she started right up. As we were putting the boost cables away, the engine started idling weirdly. Got in it and saw the needle bounce from about 1100 RPM to 2200, the drop, then as soon as it got to 1100 bounce back up again, sounded like someone was revving it. We decided to drive it anyway to charge the battery, got on the highway and drove about 30-35 miles, at RPMs over 1100 it was just its normal self, no problems on the highway in any gears, hit 85 at one point, no prob. No check engine light at this point. We thought maybe the problem would clear up, when we got off the highway and took it out of gear it started doing it again. We parked it and went to a restaurant, 2 hours later we came back. She started by herself (yay, the battery got enough charge!), bu the problem still existed. Drove back the same distance on the highway, again no probs on the highway, I tried to pull codes while my friend was driving her and there were no codes.

JUST as we got to my house, the last light before pulling into my complex, she started doing it differently, very quickly between (I think) 1400 and 1700 RPM, whereas before it was between 1100 and 2200 and shouded like a vroooooooom, vroooooooom, now it was a vroom, vroom, much faster, and the tach needle looked weird bouncing up and down in such a narrow range. CEL did come on at this point. I parked it w/in 3 minutes of CEL coming on and then pulled the codes again, P0507 came up as the only code. In the book and on the net, P0507 is listed as

P0507 - Idle Control System RPM Higher Than Expected

Duh! I could've told you something is wrong with the idle. What do you guys think this is? Some sort of sensor that went "stale" in 6 weeks of sitting there? The car has been extremely reliable, has 60K now, I got her at 18K 2 years ago, no issues whatsoever, had a bad O2 sensor once and that was it over this period. It almost seems like the computer thinks the engine's gonna die when it drops toward 1100 RPM and it accelerates to keep it alive. When coming out of gear it initially went to 3100-3500 once or twice, then settled in a fixed 1100-2200 pattern, until the very end when it switched to the fast frequency of 1400-1700 RPM.

Note that I used to drive the car ~2000 miles/month prior to not even starting it once in 6 weeks.
__________________
'03 Accord DX I4 5MT 4dr
RSX-S 17s on Potenza G009 225/45R17s <- Pic links FIXED!
Neuspeed STB <- Pic links FIXED!
Lifetime MPG: 32.6 over 39,574 miles [28-Jan-08]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 01-27-2008, 07:20 AM
MasTRE's Avatar
MasTRE MasTRE is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 324
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I forgot to say that driving in gear at low RPM, say under 2000-2500, the car feels very weird, when I lift my foot off the gas I experience very strong engine braking, like it's actively pulling the RPMs down.

Any ideas anyone? What sensors-gone-bad could lead to this?
__________________
'03 Accord DX I4 5MT 4dr
RSX-S 17s on Potenza G009 225/45R17s <- Pic links FIXED!
Neuspeed STB <- Pic links FIXED!
Lifetime MPG: 32.6 over 39,574 miles [28-Jan-08]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 01-27-2008, 07:28 AM
Accordlover's Avatar
Accordlover Accordlover is offline
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin Texas!
Posts: 6,435
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via AIM to Accordlover
At the Honda shop I used to work at, we did the 'Idle Learn' procedure on newer Accords (98+) that would come in with these problems. The tech's hated the process! - So I don't think it will be much fun.

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/sh...50&postcount=4

I'd guess your ECM was reset while the battery was dead.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 01-27-2008, 12:25 PM
MasTRE's Avatar
MasTRE MasTRE is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 324
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks, I want to try this. Q:
  • I don't have an HDS, how do I re-reset the ECM? I have a ScanGauge 2, which is what I used to pull the codes, is it possible to reset ECM with it? Or should I just disconnect the positive battery terminal for X minutes?
  • Is it normal during idle learn for it to do what I've experienced (the RPM bouncing), for those who've done this before?
  • So if the battery dies on an Accord, people have to go thru this? Nice! NOT.
__________________
'03 Accord DX I4 5MT 4dr
RSX-S 17s on Potenza G009 225/45R17s <- Pic links FIXED!
Neuspeed STB <- Pic links FIXED!
Lifetime MPG: 32.6 over 39,574 miles [28-Jan-08]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 01-27-2008, 12:52 PM
Accordlover's Avatar
Accordlover Accordlover is offline
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin Texas!
Posts: 6,435
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via AIM to Accordlover
I would just try it as is... chances are the ECM is already reset, which would mean the HDS is unnecessary. - That's theoretically speaking, hopefully princess will chime in, or someone else who has done it will. - I'll call the tech I used to work with tomorrow if things still aren't resolved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 01-27-2008, 01:56 PM
MasTRE's Avatar
MasTRE MasTRE is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 324
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Angry

Much appreciated!

I tried the "idle learn" procedure. I disconnected the battery for about 15 min (it's a DX so no worries about radio code) and hooked her back up. It didn't work. Here are the specifics, maybe I did something wrong:

1. When I turned her into the ON position (pos II), the stupid aftermarket radio wouldn't turn off, it has a demo mode which is activated by default, and since the aftermarket radio got reset too it just wouldn't turn off; I tried taking the face off but couldn't. This led to being in the ON pos for longer than 2 seconds, maybe 10-15s. I started her with the aftermarket radio on in demo mode, I eventually managed to rip the face off about a minute into my 3000 RPM escapade.

2. The fans wouldn't come on (I had someone outside look at them). I have a ScanGaugeII which can read the coolant temp, I plugged it in (while holding the pedal @ 3000 RPM!) and waited till the temp hit 198F.

3. Left her to "learn" for 6-7 min. The fans did come on for about 20s, but total time was more than 5 min after subtracting the fan on time.

She sounded just like yesterday, sick, vrooooom, vrooooom, this time bouncing between about 1050 and 1650 RPM. Nothing changed for the duration of the 5 min, it didn't seem like she was "learning" squat, she was doing the same thing over and over until I couldn't bear hearing her like this and turned her off.

Thoughts?
__________________
'03 Accord DX I4 5MT 4dr
RSX-S 17s on Potenza G009 225/45R17s <- Pic links FIXED!
Neuspeed STB <- Pic links FIXED!
Lifetime MPG: 32.6 over 39,574 miles [28-Jan-08]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 01-28-2008, 12:06 AM
jackpop's Avatar
jackpop jackpop is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 401
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Take her in before it turns into a more serious issue, I'm sure that problem can lead to others, And im sure you don't want that. Have honda take a look see.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:00 AM
GeoLogic's Avatar
GeoLogic GeoLogic is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 229
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Arrow Check Your Coolant

A car's idle will bounce up and down if you've insufficient coolant in the radiator, thus leading to air bubbles/pockets. Each time an air pocket passes by the coolant temperature sensor, the sensor suddenly thinks the engine is cold, which prompts the ECU to rev up the engine (it's normal for a car to fast idle when cold). Then, when hot coolant passes over the sensor again, the ECU brings the idle down to normal. The ultimate result is a bouncing/hunting idle.

This of course might not be your problem, but I'd check your coolant level, and check the radiator for leaks.
__________________
2007 Honda Accord EX-L Sedan w/Navi 5-Speed Manual (K24A8)
1990 Geo Prizm GSi Hatchback 5-Speed Manual (Toyota 4A-GE High Comp)

Previous:
2001 Mazda Protege ES 5-Speed Manual (FS-DE -- This engine is LAME)
1991 Nissan Sentra XE Coupe 5-Speed Manual (GA16DE)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:30 AM
abailey4's Avatar
abailey4 abailey4 is offline
Ashley & Derrick
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gainesville, Va
Posts: 372
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just had a somewhat similiar problem 2 weeks ago except that in park it would idle hunt but the difference was it wouldnt come out of park. I had to use the shift lock every time. Also it would hard shift during driving. Well all in all after a couple days at the dealer the problem ended up being a bad throttle body. I never asked for an explanation of why the throttle body would cause this because I only had 245 miles left on my extended warranty and since Honda Care covered it I figured I would leave it alone.

But like Geo said you may also want to check your coolant as well.
__________________
_______________________
Couple from Northern VA
'03 Accord Coupe EX I4 Auto
DriveAccord Profile
Car Domain Profile
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:10 PM
MasTRE's Avatar
MasTRE MasTRE is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 324
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys, I will check coolant level this weekend, could be a little low. I found some interesting info, Haynes lists P0507 as:

P0507 Idle air control system, RPM higher than expected

Could it be the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve gone bad? I already reset the code using my tool and my "idle learn" attempt on Sun did not throw another CEL, so even though it was bouncing like crazy I've got no CEL. Haynes shows the IAC valve under the throttle body. Anybody know much about these valves? Could it be clogged or do they just die? I'm wondering if it's possible to attempt to clean it or something. Although they say you need to use a fresh gasket if you unmount it, so any cleaning would have to be in-place, otherwise I'd rather just replace it.

The reason I don't think it's the coolant is because this was a very precise RPM bounce - it was between exactly 1100 and 1650 RPM every single time, for 5+ minutes. It didn't sound like it was sputtering or anything, it sounded like the computer was telling it to do precisely that, to bounce up and down like that. But I will definitely top off the coolant with some distilled water this wknd -- worth a shot.
__________________
'03 Accord DX I4 5MT 4dr
RSX-S 17s on Potenza G009 225/45R17s <- Pic links FIXED!
Neuspeed STB <- Pic links FIXED!
Lifetime MPG: 32.6 over 39,574 miles [28-Jan-08]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:35 AM
GeoLogic's Avatar
GeoLogic GeoLogic is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 229
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lightbulb Clarification

Quote:
...it sounded like the computer was telling it to do precisely that, to bounce up and down like that.
Right. Like I said. The temperature sensor conveys data to the ECU ("Electronic Control Unit"; aka "Computer"), which in turn directly controls engine RPM, based, in part, on what temperature data the ECU is receiving from the coolant temperature sensor. So this is a case where "the computer is telling the engine to bounce up and down", because the temperature sensor is sending alternating hot/cold data.

Again, this doesn't mean my theory is correct, but air in your cooling system is a common cause of RPM bouncing/hunting. It's also a condition that won't always throw a Check Engine light, because aside from quickly fluctuating temperature data, everything's normal-- So the ECU doesn't think anything's wrong (and hence doesn't throw a CEL).

Anyway, let us know what the final verdict is, eh? I'm curious about this one!

Here's hoping it's just a minor issue...
__________________
2007 Honda Accord EX-L Sedan w/Navi 5-Speed Manual (K24A8)
1990 Geo Prizm GSi Hatchback 5-Speed Manual (Toyota 4A-GE High Comp)

Previous:
2001 Mazda Protege ES 5-Speed Manual (FS-DE -- This engine is LAME)
1991 Nissan Sentra XE Coupe 5-Speed Manual (GA16DE)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 01-30-2008, 06:51 AM
DonutLimo's Avatar
DonutLimo DonutLimo is offline
one wheel drive
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hinesburg, VT
Posts: 445
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I bet it is a stuck IACV or it's not responding properly. I'm speaking with knowledge of 6th gen accords but your symptoms sound identical. Its basically a vacuum leak. when rpm rise high enough with a closed throttle, the pcm shuts the injectors off and the cycle repeats. The cure is to replace the valve or some have had luck taking it off and cleaning it with Simple Green. I think that engine braking feeling during driving and between shifts is also related to it.
__________________
99 EXV6 Coupe 193k 6spd swap
95 F250 supercab 4x4 7.3 5spd
90 Donut Limo- RIP, for you have served us well
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 01-30-2008, 03:35 PM
MasTRE's Avatar
MasTRE MasTRE is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 324
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unhappy

The reason I don't think it's the coolant is because, again, this is a very precise bounce. If there were bubbles of air, they would be random and the bounce would not be perfectly timed every time - there is no randomness to the bounce pattern, it's like a metronome, 1100-1650 RPM everytime, with the same amount of time elapsed in between. Of course it could affect the system in other ways that would cause this symptom -- that's why I will definitely top off with some distilled water. I checked and the level is a little below the MIN line. Thing is, it probably was like this before this problem appeared, 6 weeks ago when I last started the car.

At this point the IACV seems the most likely culprit, I will take a look at it this wknd. I can't seem to find the part online, I'd rather order one and have it shipped than go to the dealer's (since I have no car! duh..). The only ones that show up online anywhere are for 6th gen -- nobody sells them for 7th gen or above, not on eBay, nowhere! What gives?

P.S. Is princess on vacation?
__________________
'03 Accord DX I4 5MT 4dr
RSX-S 17s on Potenza G009 225/45R17s <- Pic links FIXED!
Neuspeed STB <- Pic links FIXED!
Lifetime MPG: 32.6 over 39,574 miles [28-Jan-08]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 02-06-2008, 06:50 PM
MasTRE's Avatar
MasTRE MasTRE is offline
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 324
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Update: coolant was low, at least 2 inches below MIN line. Topped off to MAX (engine completely cold) with distilled water. Started her up, it did the same thing, but instead of bouncing all the time, it would only bounce once in maybe 30s, between the bounces it would stay revved at a high 1600 RPM (this is not normal idle, it's much higher, more than 2X). This was with engine fully warmed up.

I got the IACV and will be replacing it this weekend; had to go to dealer, $100+ part for 7th gen (!!!, it's only like $30 for older Accords on eBay, but you can't find it anywhere online for 7th gens).

Questions:
* If it isn't the IACV, what else could this be?
* Could the low coolant have contributed to killing my existing IACV, if it does turn out to be it?
__________________
'03 Accord DX I4 5MT 4dr
RSX-S 17s on Potenza G009 225/45R17s <- Pic links FIXED!
Neuspeed STB <- Pic links FIXED!
Lifetime MPG: 32.6 over 39,574 miles [28-Jan-08]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 02-06-2008, 07:00 PM
Accordlover's Avatar
Accordlover Accordlover is offline
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin Texas!
Posts: 6,435
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via AIM to Accordlover
Wouldn't a dealers $100 (at most) diagnostic which would've been credited toward the repair been a lot cheaper than randomly replacing parts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Drive Accord Honda Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
The answer to the random question may be found under the Off Topic section of the forums and in the "Drive Accord Forums" category.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:38 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.