OBD Code P0720 (Gen6)

[blunozr]

While driving around town this weekend, my CEL light came on. I pulled the code and it's P0720 - Countershaft Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction.

Recently, I've noticed that when coming to a stop, the car will lurch going down into first. Also, when leaving from a standstill, there is a slight hesitation before the gear engages.

I've already drained the fluid twice this summer and replaced with Honda Z1.

Here are the details on my model of car:
2002 Accord 4 cylinder A/T
mileage: 105,000 km

From looking at all of the problems related to the 98-02 auto tranny, I think I already know the answer, but I'm hoping for good news.

Thanks.

[cajun]

Very sorry to hear. Take it to a dealer and if they diagnose a failed trans beg Honda Corp for help. Honda extended the trans warranty on the 00-01's to 100K, but from what I've read if you beg and fight you stand a decent chance of Honda Corp helping with your 02.

[blunozr]

Unfortunately, I'm in Canada and from the little info I can gather on various forums, Honda Canada is less co-operative than Honda USA. Anyway, I have an appt. tomorrow with the dealer, so , we'll see.

[princess]

It's usually a wiring problem. (short or corrosion)...

So how'd it go with the dealer?????

[blunozr]

Took the car to the dealer this past Tuesday and they replaced the countershaft speed sensor ($280 total). The car ran well for about a day.

Yesterday, I backed out of my driveway, put it into drive and the tranny slipped, the CEL light came back on and the gearshift light in the console started flashing. I called the dealer and they asked me to bring it in right away. The tech took it for a test drive and pulled out the code P0780 - mechanical problem in hydraulic system. He told me that the documented resolution to this is code to replace two solenoids. But in his experience, this almost never fixes the problem and the next step is to replace the tranny. He advised me to call Honda Canada since they almost always will do something.

I called Honda Canada last night and was told that since I bought the car used at 75000 km and didn't have it serviced at a Honda dealer, that they couldn't do anything for me since I couldn't prove that the work (e.g. changing tranny fluid) was done "up to Honda specs".

Any suggestions on how to proceed?

[SatinSilver]

Tell them that you bought a Honda for its reliability and the transmission shouldn't be failing this soon(65k miles). 2nd there are known problems with these trans (as you stated) even with documented maintenance.

See if any local dealers can pull service records based on vin.

Also ask corporate to help out with your $280 repair or a minimum pay half. Do you have receits for the recent Z1 purchase? Any documentation should help. Good luck!

[princess]

Um, wasn't an '02 not due for a ATF change according to the manual till 144K KM in Cananda??? So you aren't even due for an ATF change yet, so why would any records of it be needed!!??


from the manual:
90,000 mi/144,000 km/ 5 years, then every 30,000 mi/48,000 km/ 2 years
Service at the indicated distance or time, whichever comes first. Use this schedule if the vehicle is driven MAINLY in Canada or in any of the following conditions; if only OCCASIONALLY driven in these conditions, use the Normal Conditions schedule.

Severe Driving Conditions

Less than 5 miles (8 km) per trip or, in freezing temperatures, less than 10 miles (16 km) per trip

In extremely; hot weather (over 90ºF/32ºC)

Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving

Trailer towing

On muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads

Driving in mountainous conditions

According to state and federal regulations, failure to do the maintenance items marked with asterisk (*) will not void customer's emissions warranties. However, Honda recommends that all maintenance services be done at the recommended interval to ensure long-term reliability.

o Replace automatic transmission fluid. Use Honda ATF-Z1 (ATF).

[blunozr]

Called the local dealer to ask them to contact Honda Canada on my behalf since I thought having the service manager on my side may swing things in my favor a bit. I was told that the service manager is not in this week and there's nobody else who knows the procedure to contact Honda Canada re. an issue like this (wow!).

Asked for the contact info for the regional service manager. I was told that they'd pass my name on, but it's doubtful that he would do anything for me.

I was told that since I didn't get the car serviced at the dealer (my father-in-law is a licensed mechanic and I'm certainly capable of changing oil/tranny fluids) I'm not a "true Honda customer" - she actually said that. And that "goodwill dollars are usually only given out to true Honda customers". (wow again).

I've taken the accord to a reputable tranny shop for a diagnostic and estimate.

[gschmelt]

I don't think it matters WHERE you got it serviced as long as the maintenance schedule has been followed, but I've been known to be wrong.

[cajun]

Originally Posted by gschmelt

I don't think it matters WHERE you got it serviced as long as the maintenance schedule has been followed, but I've been known to be wrong.

If you're trying to get Honda Corp to help with out of warranty repairs it may matter. I was told by my dealership + Honda Corp that one of the main factors they look at when they are deciding to help is whether you had the car maintained at a Honda dealership. Obviously the dealership may be full of it, but it makes sense from their (Honda Corp's) point of view. I have receipts for all of the Honda ATF I've bought (I do the labor), but I'm wondering if that would be good enough.

[princess]

But what do oil changes have to do with the tranny??????

I understand them preferring customers that are regulars. That's just how businesses do things. What I fail to understand is that you have less miles than it should have for the FIRST ATF change under "extreme" conditions. So Honda should pay for or help pay the tranny!!! Remind them of that.

WHERE you have services doesn't matter for warranty (there's legalities) ... it does for out of warranty.

[Bowzer]

I'd take them to task quickly on insisting only Honda dealers are qualified to do maintenance work. As Princess mentioned, you're not even due for the tranny fluid anyway so it shouldn't be an issue with a tranny failure...so why is it even being brought up? Next, I don't recall but is there a requirement anywhere in the OM insisting maintenance must be performed by Honda? And, if the concern is if the vehicle has been maintained vs abused, you will be happy to provide every bit of documentation for parts and fluids purchased. As satinsilver mentioned, list how you invested in a Honda product because of perceived quality and integrity. As an owner, you have not only absorbed repair bills as a part of ownership but taken on responsibility to find the best possible maintenance available matching or exceeding Honda's recommendations. Now that there is a surprising major failure, you're simply requesting aid for a well documented failure seemingly supported by Honda with other owners.

[SatinSilver]

Cut out the middleman and call Honda of Canada directly. Use the advice posted on this thread as ammo. Esp how Princess mentioned that the trans hasn't even called for service under severe service.

Hopefully Honda will open a case file. The service mgr will contact Honda for the invoice number so the dealer can get paid. This is what I did under some different circumstances and it worked for me. The service mgr even complained to me that the case mgr at corporate sure was unfriendly.