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Old 08-20-2005, 07:02 PM
buster buster is offline
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Stick with a 5w-20

As a member of bobistheoilguy.com for 3 years, I've seen many oil analysis reports. I recently drained the factory oil out at about 5k miles. Went to M1 EP then to GC. After running German Castrol 0w-30, which IMO is the best xw-30 on the market, it was much too thick for my Accord (2.4L).

Car was extremely sluggish for 1k miles and at that point i couldn't take it anymore so I put in M1 0w-20. What a difference. Much better power and better gas mileage. I can't believe the difference is that great going from a 12.2 centistoke oil to a 8.6 cSt oil. The difference from factory fill 5w-20 to M1 EP 10w-30 wasn't that bad, as M1 is on the thin side for a 30wt oil @ 10.5 cSt @100C. After seeing so many great 20wt oil analysis reports, I'm no longer skeptical of their wear protection. In fact, many 20wt oils are putting up better numbers then the 30wt oils.
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Old 08-20-2005, 07:17 PM
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We will be sticking with M1 5-30
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Old 08-20-2005, 07:28 PM
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I just run hypoid oil in mine. Gas mileage is 1-2 MPG higher, but talk about PROTECTION for those cylinders!
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Old 08-20-2005, 07:52 PM
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It really doesn't matter what oil you run. Various parts of the world run different grades/brands for the same exact engines sold in the US. However, if oil analysis suggests a 20wt is providing as good or better wear protection as anything higher, it makes no sense to use anything but a 20wt. Shell did a study and found that the oil film thickness at the ring area was thicker with a 5w-20 than a 15w-40. More HP and MPG also. Hypoid oil? Is that Scamsoil?
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psyshack
We will be sticking with M1 5-30
Same here.
5w-30 is what the Honda V6 first specified and I've seen no info that the engine changed when Honda switched to 5w-20. This change was for Honda's benefit, not yours or mine.
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Old 08-21-2005, 01:01 PM
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The change was for Honda's CAFE rating. (corp average fuel efficiency). However, the last 4 years of data has trickled in and 5w-20's have outperformed their 30wt cousins in many cases. I'm not suggesting switching to a 5w-20 if your running a 30wt or your car calls for a 30wt. I'm simply saying that Honda and Ford have tested 20wt oils in their engines and they are rock solid. Nothing to fear with the low viscosity oils that I've seen.
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Old 08-21-2005, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster
Hypoid oil? Is that Scamsoil?
No, it is a type of oil, in this case, 80w-90 synthetic. Same as outboard lower casings use.

But based on what you are telling us, thinner is better, so since my grandma's Singer has been going strong since 1935, I think I will drain the thick synthetic and switch to sewing machine oil. I'll bet my mileage goes WAY up!
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Old 08-21-2005, 06:06 PM
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I did not say thinner is better for ALL applications. Let me restate what I am saying. It doesn't matter what viscosity you run. In Austrialia and Japan, Honda's run on anything from a 10w-30 to a 5w-50. In the US, it's driven by CAFE/EPA fuel ratings. Those that fear running 20wt oils shouldn't have any based on the data. Therefore, you get the best of both worlds with these new 20wt oils. Better HP/MPG and great wear protection. Start up wear is also diminished when using a thinner lubricant.

Page 22 of the following article. Film is thicker in the ring area with a lower viscosity oil

http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers/IMechEFE2000.pdf
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:48 PM
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You can't really say much about oil, I don't care what analysis was performed. In the end, if you change it regularly and soon, you and me are on the same boat. Honda oil ratings are full of crud. From 98-00 all Accords were spec'd 5W-30. Then from 01+ they spec'd 5W-20. Then later they backtracked and said all Accords back to 98 now should use 5W-20.

In the Odyssey, they previously used 5W-20. For no reason, they switched to 0W-20. Ohhh wait, that was the year when the Odyssey officially became an ULEV....ahhh now I'm getting the picture...

Dealers dump in the cheapest piece of crap oil ever made in any grade they can get their hands on. Just look at your maintenance records, I bet at least a few of your Accords got 5W-30 bulk in them. And they're still under warranty are they not? And they are still running?

So?? Isn't arguing about this kinda pointless? My car runs smoother on 10W-40. Yes, I use 10W-40. Sue me.
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Old 08-21-2005, 10:47 PM
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i run 5w-30 in mine, and still no signs of burning oil.... even after 250k+ miles.........
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Old 08-22-2005, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster
Start up wear is also diminished when using a thinner lubricant.

Page 22 of the following article. Film is thicker in the ring area with a lower viscosity oil

http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers/IMechEFE2000.pdf
Apples & oranges. The thicker oil they mention (less than 1 micron thicker, btw) at the upper piston ring area is due possibly to the thinner oil passing between the ring gaps more readily. Makes sense, and only refers to when the engine is running.

But this has nothing to do with start-up wear. Many other factors come into play here, such as time between starts. Regardless of that oil film thickness while running, over time the oil is going to thin out as it sits static. Eventually, you will have almost no oil during start-ups.

I was only messing with you on the hypoid/sewing machine thing. But this argument is much older than you and & put together; and while good info is always appreciated, not much you can say to convince most people. Change it often, and it doesn't matter what you run (see the news where the guy is using filtered deep-fat fryer oil in his diesel?). Change it later (I prefer a 10-15k interval), and you better have some good oil in it.

And regardless what tests show about 20w oils, if you run a mono-weight oil, 30w will have more lubrication properties than a 20w over time. It's simple physics; if the oil starts out thicker, it will be thicker longer. Its the additives that make the difference, especially early on.
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Old 08-22-2005, 02:59 AM
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I actually agree with you. If your running extended drains, definitely use a Group IV/V based oil. Again, my point was that you don't have to fear using the 5w-20 oils. They have been extensively tested by the engineers who design these engines. On www.bobistheoilguy.com, you'll find that most believe thicker is not better most of the time. However, some engines like the LS1 do prefer a thicker oil then what is spec'd for it. This is based on used oil analysis. Regarding the 10w-40, that is another point I was trying to make. You'd find in Europe/Austrailia this is what they use often. I'd rather stick with a 5w-20 and gain HP/MPG while keeping the protection. To each their own.
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Old 08-22-2005, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiller fan
i run 5w-30 in mine, and still no signs of burning oil.... even after 250k+ miles.........
Now that's the kind of backing I want... pure mileage records...

What brand do you use?? Did you use that brand consistently?
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Old 08-22-2005, 07:40 AM
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Their are several people on bobistheoilguy.com that have over 150k miles using nothing but Motorcraft 5w-20. This one guy in particular tows a boat as well. Any oil will get the job done. With conventional, just don't take it too far.
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Old 08-22-2005, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA05LXDriver
Now that's the kind of backing I want... pure mileage records...

What brand do you use?? Did you use that brand consistently?
215k miles on '91 Corolla wagon
10w-30 Castrol GTX (dino) every 3500 miles.
Fram oil filter (except past 4 years)
No smoke, no oil consumption. Runs great.
Engine is very clean.
No engine work excpet timing belt changed every 60k miles.
Towed small boat on vacation 1500 miles a few years.
Foot stays in the floor.
Keeps going, and going . . .

Thought about changing to M1 just to extend the drain interval, but my 17 year old daughter got her license and wants to do the oil change.
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