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Need advice... unexpected treatment from RetroSol. based on forum ad

10K views 49 replies 27 participants last post by  Aviography 
#1 ·
I really need your guys advice here.

Last night I saw Retrosolutions ad here for LED kits which included:
- Fast and Free Shipping in the US, no surprises at checkout

The gimmicks other vendors use:
- Others claim to cost less, add in their shipping costs and then see where the prices line up. With us, the price you see is the price you pay!


Signature also says use code ACCORD for forum member discount.

As soon as I placed the order I saw it never gave free shipping or any discount. I immediately email them quoting the ad (free shipping, no surprises...) and asking what's the deal, and that I want to cancel if the ad wasn't for real. They e-mail me back saying there were never any forum discounts on LEDs and their pricing and shipping policies changed on 03-31, and there's actually no free shipping now. I write them back at 9am being very nice, saying in that case please cancel my order for now as I need to think about it.

Then, late in the afternoon, they MODIFY the ad to get rid of the free shipping text, and e-mail me saying too bad, I can't cancel and there's a $5 fee.

Original version I relied on last night (google cache): http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...lbs&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

New version, they modified today to remove the free shipping after I brought this up: http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35096

I guess I'm just surprised 'cause I've heard that RS is all about customer service and no BS so this seems really shady to me. If you make a mistake in updating your ads you should either honor it or at the very least, not change it behind the scenes then charge a customer who relied on the mistake a cancellation fee -- especially if he informs you immediately about the discrepancy and that he wants to cancel if it's not honored. I was gonna go ahead and order them anyway, but now I don't feel good about supporting this. It's mostly the principle that bothers me and I just expected... different. But V-leds is out of stock and Diode has had quality issues. I don't feel paying cancellation fees on this is in any way fair. What should I do?
 
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#2 ·
man that sucks, I agree, even if it is a misprint you should honor it. Nice job catching that :thmsup:
 
#5 ·
It's one thing not to honor false advertising (even if it wasn't intentional), what really bothers me is that they're trying to impose a cancellation fee on the misled consumer as well and basically trying to force me into paying the full price. It's illegal, unethical, and, well... really shady if you ask me. Not what I expected. :(
 
#4 ·
Todd is the person who said this. :dunno:
 
#6 ·
BAD MOUTH them till the cows come home, and make sure they know it!

In today's bad economy, it is all about customer service. They must be doing pretty damn well to lose 10-50 potential customers over 1 order.

I HATE ass hole company's like this!:thumbsdow

Go to their Facebook page and post what they did.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-Solutions-LLC/110803805597905


IMHO, It is THEIR responsibility to update or remove an ad, here or anywhere.

It clearly shows-
Fast and Free Shipping in the US
 
#8 ·
Store pricing and shipping options were added on 3-31-2010, it is listed in all of our threads and updated, basically on daily basis. Yes, we are sorry it was not yet updated in every thread on every forum we currently sponsor and those we have sponsored in the past.

The ACCORD members discount only applies to eligible products, it has always been that way, we have never mislead anyone in regards to that. The member's discount codes and other discount codes have never been applicable to our LED bulb or NightVision product as we purposely keep those items priced as low as we possibly can. Does not matter though, the promotional code was never entered on your order in the first place.

As we mentioned before, under our pricing your order came to $53.74 with priority mail shipping. Under the old pricing where shipping was built into the price, choices in shipping rates were not an option, you would have paid over $70 for the same order. Its over a $25 difference in savings.... so I have to say I'm sorry that the decrease in price over the previous pricing is not to your liking.

There is a cancellation fee described in our policies, as well as explanations in our terms of use that web content is subject to change. We have already verified payment details and partially processed your order, because we were trying to fulfill it in the normal speedy way for you. If there were questions regarding the cost of items or shipping we would recommend asking those questions before submitting the order. After an order is placed we can not guarantee anything in terms of making changes, stopping it before it goes out the door, etc.

We will cancel your order and refund the payment, but please read store polices and ask questions BEFORE placing an order to get the most current data. There could be a day we no longer are a sponsor here and do not have the ability to update any remaining data that may be posted.
 
#9 ·
In most states an advertised price must be honored....even if it were a mistake. IN this case it sounds like it was changed, but not posted in all the places the company puts their ads. Mistakes happen. I've caught old signs up at Best Buy many times. Usually they honor them as they take them down & thank me for finding it.

As far as cancellation or restocking fee. Also common. Generally it's 15% or so of the order. Many companies will only charge it if it's a special order or if there's a history with a customer changing their mind. But it's totally legal & probably stated in the order area like most. I think 5 bucks is a very cheap fee for this!!

I have misread or misinterpreted company "policies" many times. They are usually very nice about it. It's about 50/50 whether or not they do anything to help me out. The ones that have are one reason I have been pretty brand loyal. Even if their product is equal, customer service counts.

I ordered a case of Russell Stover sugar free fudge sauce. They sent a case of regular. I called them & offered to send it back. They said not to bother & that my case of the sugar free would be in that day's mail. When it arrived it had a few extras in it. So now I pretty much only buy that brand of sugar free chocolates. Similar stuff with GE appliances, RCA, Honda, Disney Store, Tide, Nestle, John Morrel meats, etc. Sometimes the mistake has been mine, sometimes theirs.

Discussing experiences on here about good or bad purchases is hardly "slander". Just venting. This thread was asking advice by the OP. No more slanderous than the threads on whining about the ATs, brakes, wind noise, rattles, etc. in Hondas on here. We report our own experiences. It may be less than 1% of the products made.... but it's still OUR experience & discussing it is what forums are for. Right?

This company has offered a full refund & explained what happened. They get points for that. So now, jvin08, the ball is in your court.
 
#11 ·
Claiming that we did anything illegal by having a clearly indicated cancellation fee in our store policies is slander, because in fact it is nothing of the kind. Because it was not read, understood, or found not agreeable after purchase does not change the fact that it is there as part of our policies. Vent away, but keep the facts factual.
Slander - a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report.
Here technically it falls under a written defamation.

Yes, we do have a restocking fee as well, however that was not the case here at all, the order was not even shipped. This no restocking fee was being charged. The order was confirmed, they submitted payment information, placed the order, payment verified, and then put on hold while they took the time needed to make their decision.

Yes, we make mistakes, sorry. We do explain such discrepancies that lapse in our terms of use and in store policies. We've gone to a great extent to get our total purchase price out the door and delivered as low as possible, and for a lifetime warranty product. We were nice and polite about everything and explained that we had the order on hold pending their decision to cancel or not and holding product for them specifically that was going on back-order. We were very respectful of them and just gave the facts.

Store pricing changed on 3-31-10.... this is not new information, it was not non-existent in the thread or the website. Product price + shipping = lower price than before with "free shipping."
 
#10 ·
Todd,

Thanks for the full refund in the end. I'm not crazy about having to really pull teeth to get something that's my legal right. I'm sorry if you feel that this is slander, but posting one's experiences with a company is an important use of forums like this. Truth is an absolute defense to slander. I think I have been careful about posting only true things and backing them up with a google cache of the ad before and after. If you feel that I have posted anything untrue, please show me and I would be happy to discuss.

I see that you mentioned that prices dropped 3-31. What I don't see is where you mentioned in a clear way before yesterday afternoon that the free shipping mentioned in the LED ad stopped applying with the new "price drops." It's not stated in the price drop post nor on your web site in any conspicuous way. In fact, without free shipping, prices actually increased as much as 80% or more on some small orders. Your post also still said to compare your prices to other evil vendors who charge shipping fees, and how that makes them so much more expensive in the end.

Also a cancellation fee policy doesn't trump an advertised deal. It's the other way around. If what you're saying were true, you could run a business that advertises huge discounts on items, but when people order, the discounts never actually go through as stated. Then, throw in a line about an absolute cancellation fee in the site policy text somewhere, and when people cancel these orders because the deal wasn't honored, keep the cancellation fee money as the entire business model.

If you were to ask legal counsel about this (recommended to avoid future issues like this), I think you'd find that not only is the cancellation fee illegal in this case, but as princess mentioned I'd also technically have a legal right to force you to honor the free shipping deal or compensate me for the lost savings. Obviously noone would ever bother with something like that for these small dollar amounts, but just food for thought.
 
#12 ·
With all due respect, if free shipping was what they were truly after in the first place, the base rate of shipping should have been chosen, but instead chose a higher/faster service. All claims they had regarding the order would never even apply in that situation. Where they upset because nothing in their order in any circumstance would have resulted in what they thought they would get, or where trying to use their apparent dissatisfaction to get something they were not entitled to?
We thanked them for pointing out an error we had made and promptly corrected it, and explained the why, how, and what the net savings were of the new pricing and shipping structure that was implemented prior.
If the amount on the order was not correct it would have been prudent to contact us prior to placing the order to fix any discrepancies before payment was verified on the order, etc.
It was the very last of a product going on back order with other orders already placed for the same thing. We asked if they were sure of their decision to cancel the order only because they stated they just wanted to place it again later. That was to save them the cancellation fee and any wait due to back order in the case of a true misunderstanding. We made them aware of the policies and that we would hold the product just for them, regarding a final decision with everything explained to them.
At that point, the person no longer contacted us directly to discuss and we suddenly came under attack of "threatening" them, extortion, and covertly changing ads, none of which ever occurred. Not once did we ever treat them with such disrespect.
All this arising because we under took efforts to decrease costs to all our customers, in his case by as much as $27. Would anyone be happier to pay $27 more to get free base rate shipping???
Sorry, but the same goes for any business-consumer relationship, the policies are there for a reason, and if they are unagreeable to you... you should not order, they are there so there is clear understanding as to what the seller and buyer are each responsible for in the agreement of a purchase. There is no fine print, we are no hiding anything from anyone at all, we go to lengths to remain transparent specifically so things are very clear. If something is not clear, we are always available to ask by phone, email, PM, IM, etc.
 
#14 ·
Great F' it then, we'll switch all the store pricing and structure back to the way it was. I've had enough of this BS trying to keep prices down for you guys as low as possible with "0" mutual respect. It was not something we had to do, it was something we wanted to do for all our customers.

IF YOU DO NOT READ THE POLICIES AND TERMS OF USE, OR JUST WANT TO IGNORE THEM AFTER THE FACT: DO NOT EVEN COME TO OUR SITE
Nice attitude!
Glad to see business is booming for you.

I will NOT be a future customer.

:thumbsdow

:wave:
 
#13 ·
Well, I think it speaks for itself at this point and I can't believe I'm spending yet more time on this. One last thing I have to say, just because I feel that the "holding it for me" justification is ridiculous...

I placed the order at 2:12 AM in the morning. At 2:17 AM I sent you the "URGENT, Major problem with order" email saying that the deal wasn't on the receipt I got and that I want to cancel if the free shipping ad won't be honored. Are you saying you put the product on hold for me between 2:12 am and 2:17 am so I should be charged a fee for that?

At 9:20am I get your reply stating that there won't be any free shipping because of new pricing policies. At 9:47 am I sent you a second email yet again saying again in no uncertain words to cancel my order because I need to think about it if I will be charged shipping.

If you feel that I said something false about the cancellation fee in this case being illegal, I really think you should discuss these things with a lawyer, who will confirm what I'm saying and might help you prevent getting into these kinds of situations in the future. Not that anyone will actually sue you for this small $$, but noone wants to be taken advantage of.
 
#15 ·
Yeah....I was on the company's side..... kinda testy though.... :dunno:

Slander would be an accusation....not just a stated opinion. THIS is a place for opinion. By your definition everyone on here that has said that Honda isn't following through on which ever issue they choose would be slander.

It seems like you cut your own throat with the attitude here! Graciously extending a refund, store credit, free shipping, or whatever to compensate for the misunderstanding would have certainly gone a long ways!! Or even doing nothing at all except nicely explaining. Instead you started with an attitude!

You chose to be all hateful with your panties in a bunch over ONE person being disappointed in the customer service he received!? Kinda odd business practice in my humble opinion. I've known few companies to do things that way.

You reported this thread to me.... I just don't agree with your assessment of the problem here. I don't agree with ANY slander here. You are well within you rights to handle your company stuff in whatever means you wish, but don't be surprised when not all agree with it when it's stated for all to see.
 
#17 ·
Retro,

Sounds like you're having a rough day. My advice to you is to take the rest of the day off before you lose any more customers.
 
#18 ·
Just to be clear this isn't about getting some kind of free shipping or discount or anything even though it was advertised -- I really couldn't care less about that based on the response I received. As soon as they informed me that the ad was a mistake I was super nice and said oh no problem just cancel it like I said and I'll think about ordering later.

All I've been fighting for is to not have to pay the $5 cancellation fee! I didn't think that was so much to ask for in this situation.
 
#19 ·
If it was in the disclaimer, then you know it's part of the cancellation. Kinda a silly thing to fight about, really. We've decided not to cancel an order due to the fine print before. Usually it's not charged as long as the time frame is real close.... but it IS their right.
 
#20 ·
but it IS their right.
It shouldn't be if you are cancelling due to their error.

His contention that they can't be responsible for all the ads they put out there is ludicrous. If you advertise one thing, then that is what you should honor. If you are advertising so much that you can't keep track of it all, then you should hire a marketing firm or scale back your ad coverage. It is not the consumer's responsibility to know when an ad still posted is no longer valid.

I think it is all moot at this point. Based on the company's response in this thread, I can't imagine anybody from the DriveAccord community buying from them again.
 
#22 ·
To the mods--I know how difficult it is to deal with a situation that involves an issue with a forum sponsor (as I have run and moderated forums in the past). I've seen some situations where any posts involving a sponsor (or, more typically, the company owning the forum) are modified or deleted. That made a lot of people leave and ended up being those forums' downfall.

So I'd just like to say thank you for doing the right thing and allowing me to share my experience here and not just deleting a post because a sponsor said so. These are critical moments for a forum's credibility, since so many people out there just care about the bottom line. I (and I'm sure others as well) have gained an enormous amount of respect for you guys and the forum, and I plan on being on here for a long time to come. I also plan to make a donation to help keep this place running.

To everyone else-- thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts. What I've mentioned here is simply my own experience with this vendor, and I can't speak for anyone else's experiences. RS has obviously supported this forum and some people have had good experiences so it's your call on whether or not you choose to deal with them.
 
#25 ·
Give him a break. people have bad days, and customer service can really get to you after a while. I used to be in a cosumer based job. Some people can just make you pop after a while. Not that Im taking any sides here. But leave the argument between these two. Dont judge on something most of us are not involved in.
 
#27 ·
Yea, take it with a grain of salt. I'm not taking sides here...

Retro has not lost a customer but next time I order, I will be more apt to read the fine print (and keep this particular post in mind) before I place my order. And if other companies have "better sounding" fine print, I might even order from them instead. Lets just hope their product quality overrides their customer service. :dunno:
 
#30 ·
I own a multiple restaurant business and the one rule we all follow no matter what in prime time customer service is "NO MATTER WHAT, THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS AND I MEAN ALWAYS RIGHT" without the customer there is no business, You know even if it is not the mistake on the part of the business, one can take a small hit to keep a customer happy because remember, every time a customer is made happy 10 more people know about it and business grows. This kind of attitude towards customers and that too on a forum where you get so much business from is not a good idea.
Just one businessman to another!
 
#31 ·
Originally Posted by retrosolutions
Great F' it then, we'll switch all the store pricing and structure back to the way it was. I've had enough of this BS trying to keep prices down for you guys as low as possible with "0" mutual respect. It was not something we had to do, it was something we wanted to do for all our customers.

IF YOU DO NOT READ THE POLICIES AND TERMS OF USE, OR JUST WANT TO IGNORE THEM AFTER THE FACT: DO NOT EVEN COME TO OUR SITE
Being "In The Right" isn't always right. You can win the battle, but lose the war. Glad I bought my HID's from XenonDepot, Steve was much more pleasant and bent over backwards to please.

And Todd........ buying from vendors is not something we have to do either, it's something we like to do.
 
#32 ·
I'm sure Steve would not bend over backwards for you if you accused XD of extortion or threatening you because you decided you wanted something that never would have applied to your order? Just as we have and will always continue to go above and beyond for all our clients that can have mutual respect for us as well.
 
#33 ·
I just love the words you're using. "Extortion", "threatening", "slander"? Sounds like you're blowing this way out of proportion. From what I read, jvin08's attitude in this whole thread was nothing like those words. IMO, he was dealing with this situation in a professional manner. All his posts and even the title suggest that.

I also like that you used the word "respect". Hah!

And the post that everyone has quoted (and that you just edited)? I just had to laugh because that was basically digging your own grave.
 
#34 ·
Threatening and extortion were his words!

Slander is ours, because claiming such things when they did not occur is the dictionary definition of the word, as if we would EVER HAVE ANY REASON TO DO SUCH THINGS!!!
If you want to believe the guy claiming he got ripped off after getting his money back in full for claiming he was owed something that NEVER applied to their order under ANY circumstance and crying foul after the fact you are welcome to your opinion.
 
#35 ·
can't we all just get along :grouphug:
 
#40 · (Edited)
I'm not going to take sides on this simply because we don't know what has been said offline (or off-forum) between these two (customer and company). However, I will state my opinion based on what I have read here.

This isn't only about $5, its about how a business treats the customer and how they conduct their business. Not honoring an "old" ad with no visible expiration is classic "false advertising" anyway you shake it. BBB has ways of dealing with these types of business practices. Now before you go into your nerd rage about how he was "threatening" and "soliciting sex" to you, or whatever it was:naughty:, know that the way you have represented yourself in this thread alone is not putting your business in a good light. Hence why others have stated their boycotting of your products.

Here's my example. You have a coupon to, say, Heartattack Grill (never been just kinda popped into my head). Your coupon states that if you order a Double bypass burger, you can upgrade to a Quadruple bypass at no extra cost. So you order a Quadruple bypass, the cashier gives you a total and you present the coupon and your debit card. After taking the coupon the cashier states that this is no longer in effect, even though the coupon has no expiration date. Instead, they now have coupons to get a double bypass for the price of a single. But you really had your heart set on that quadruple bypass. So after you express your displeasure with the restaurant and want to leave, the cashier states that he is going to have to charge a dollar to your card since he has already put your order in.

Would you agree to pay this $1 charge in order to leave? Would you go through with your order; which would cost you far more than $1 and put more money into the pocket of a company for which you feel has wronged you? Or would you protest this until you are given your card back, free of charge?

After this happens, would you still recommend this place to friends or family? Strangers? Or would you tell them that place is full of crooks?
 
#42 ·
I am new to the site and was looking at making some improvements that retro looked to offer a good solution. However after being very active on several Ford and Nissan forums since 1996 there is absolutely no way I would ever even begin to consider doing business with a forum "supporter" that even once acted like this or made it into a public forum topic. I'll be looking at other vendors and am so sorry to hear that this would ever happen and be made into a forum pissing match a damn shame from a respectable company.
 
#43 ·
+1. I'm new to this forum, not new to forums in general, nor owning a business.

There's such a thing as the weights and measure department, honoring a company's mistake, and customer service. Whether or not it's explicitly written in your rules, this could have all been avoided by not charging the guy the $5 cancellation fee. Whether you did it out of spite, or just sticking with your policy, as a customer service standpoint it's much easier to not charge the fee. Consumer satisfaction is the key, and word of mouth is far more powerful than any amount of advertising you do. It takes a lot of effort to build a reputation, but it can all collapse with just one event.

Sorry to bring add on to an already dead thread, but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. No matter how you feel, no matter how frustrated you are, a company rep should never come out publicly and blast people like that. Highly unprofessional and potential customers wonder if they'll receive that same level of attention and care when they purchase a company's product. I was going to buy your products BEFORE I saw this thread, but now I'm seriously reconsidering.
 
#46 ·
+1 :thmsup:

Some people never learn.
 
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