Problem & Fix: Excessive Oil Consumption in 2003-2007 Honda Accords w/ 2.4L DOHC - Drive Accord Honda Forums

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Old 07-29-2011, 02:02 AM
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Problem & Fix: Excessive Oil Consumption in 2003-2007 Honda Accords w/ 2.4L DOHC

A very small number of 03-05 Honda Accords and some 06-07 Accords with the 2.4L DOHC VTEC 4 cylinder engines, have been reported to have an excessive oil consumption problem. It affects both coupes and sedans and automatic and manual transmission cars.

To date, I have found no complaints regarding any of the V-6 models, but this is not to say it can't or hasn't happened to the V-6 models.

There are probably 100 or so cars on the internet (when you run a google search) that people have reported either via a consumer complaints website or forum threads. This number is not inclusive of those who have an Accord with these problems, and have not reported the issue or problem.

I am one of the few with this problem. And I researched and hunted this problem down for 5 months before finding my answer, and it was very frustrating because every thread I found, had no resolution, and I figured out why. When an Accord owner has this issue or their car starts to have the problem, the owner finds out what's wrong with the car and how much money it will cost to fix the problem, and they simply sell the car or they trade it in and let it become someone else's problem, and they never post up what they found out, and the thread either dies out, or others with the same problem ask for resolution but to no avail. I finally found a few mechanics locally who have both seen the problem, and fixed it who told me what was wrong and what it would take to fix it.

Even more frustrating, Honda does not acknowledge this as a problem on their end. My car had 81,000 miles on it when it began experiencing this problem (I bought it with 79K, but it's very possible the previous owners who traded it in were experiencing the problem and that's why they got rid of it) but I didn't notice the problem until about a month and half after I bought it.

The reason Honda does not accept responsibility is most likely due to there being so few of these cars with the problem, it does not meet the necessary industry criteria to issue a recall. (example...if they made 10,000 Accords in 2003, 10,000 Accords in 2004, and 10,000 Accords in 2005) and only 100 Accords from 2003-2005 had this problem, then that does not the exceed Honda's industry standard guidelines to warrant issuing a TSB or Recall, because the percentage of vehicles having this problem are so low and follow into the category of the +/- tolerance for errors. Even though it's absolutely ridiculous that an engine (and a Honda engine at that) with 79,000 miles is burning 2-3 qts every 900 miles, Honda offered me no assistance when I placed a call to Honda American Customer Service. They did not blackball me either, but of course they wanted me to take my car to a local Honda dealership of my choice and pay for a diagnostic service to get an official Honda diagnosis. I opted not to go to a Honda Dealership, instead I found a technician willing to do it on the side and I'll just pay to fix my car and be done with it.


But if you're having this issue call Honda Customer Service

By Phone: 1-800-999-1009
Fax (310) 783-3023 (24 Hours)


The representative will ask you for your

Name
Address
Phone #
VIN # of your vehicle
Purchase Date
Miles at time of Purchase

Having records of the maintenance you have done on the car, as well as records of oil changes (receipts, invoices of oil changes and routine maintenance) will only help to serve you in getting Honda to foot the bill because this shows Honda, you take care of your car properly and you maintain it properly, and if you do that, then Honda usually will decide it is something that went wrong outside of your control, and they like to keep their customers happy and returning, so they are more willing to help you out. If you bought the car used and don't have access to records prior to the purchase, be sure to tell them that, as the previous owners records might be in the Dealerships records and Honda may be able to obtain that information to benefit your case.

Once you explain the problem, they will ask you to take it to a Honda Dealership to get an official diagnosis from a Honda Certified Technician.

Depending on the policy of the dealership, you may only have to pay a diagnostic fee of 1 hour (whatever the shop's hourly rate is) regardless of how long it takes. Other dealerships may charge you a diagnostic fee for each hour that it takes to diagnose the problem (but usually waive this fee if you get the work done at their shop) and that can add up (especially if they have to drop the oil pan and pull a piston out!) so be sure to clarify before any work is done, what the diagnostic fee is, and is it only a 1 hour charge or do they charge for however many hours it takes to diagnose the problem?

Here's the tough part. There is no test that will tell you if your oil control rings are bad. It is very difficult to detect. An engine compression test and a leakdown test WILL NOT tell you if you have faulty oil control rings. Compression rings only retain compression for each cylinder but do not seal oil in the cylinder. Oil control rings "seal" oil in the cylinders and prevent oil from leaking out up into the combustion chamber but they do not retain any compression within the cylinder. So if your compression rings are good, and your oil rings are bad, your compression test will be normal, and the compression numbers in each cylinder will all be within normal tolerances (160-180 PSI per cylinder). A leakdown test will also be normal. The only way to truly know if oil control rings are bad, is to pull the piston out and check, and that can be expensive.

So with this knowledge, when you go into the Dealership, you need to get the Service Manager and the Technician who will be looking at your car together, and have a little pow-wow with them both at the same time, so they know what's going on, they're aware of what to look for, they're aware of the problems you are experiencing and that it will be hard to detect. You want them both on the same page so you can get the service you need. Print this post off and take it with you and let them read it. The more knowledge you arm them with, the more likely it is they will better understand you and how to help you, and more importantly, they will care.

They may have you do a Honda Oil Consumption Test. They will require you schedule to get an oil change at the dealership (go ahead and pay for it)

Print This .pdf form off and take 2 copies with you when you go to the Dealership

Official Honda Oil Consumption Test Procedure
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/at...9&d=1296178246

Once the dealership diagnoses the problem you need to get an Invoice (make sure it's got the Dealer's name, address, phone #, diagnosis of the problem, prognosis (what it will take to fix it, and get a quote on the labor and parts to fix it). Pay your diagnostic fee and head for home. When you get home, call Honda Customer Service and give them your name and info, tell them you have an official diagnosis of the problem. They will ask you to fax your invoice in.

Honda Customer Service might or might not help you. They might cover the parts and labor, they might not. But it's worth a try to find out. If they do, you've saved yourself a ton of money. If they don't you're not out anything but a little time.

If they help you, and agree to cover the costs, you will most likely be getting a new longblock from Honda. The reason I say this is, I have heard from a few dealerships and many Honda Tech's that they don't swap pistons or rings at the dealership (I don't know if this true at ALL Honda Dealerships, it may or may not be, but it is true at the dealership I went to where I live).

If they don't help you out and you feel this is unjust, you can do what my Dad did when he had problems with the transmission in his 2001 Honda Odyssey going out. He wrote the Manager of the Parts, Sales and Service Division at Honda Headquarters in Japan. They reimbursed him 90% of the bill that he paid out of pocket himself when he got blackwalled by Honda Customer Service and he got a personal reply from the guy in Japan via a letter too. It was a $2700 repair bill to get the transmission rebuilt. He received a check for $2500. Not too shabby. He still has the check stub in his filing cabinet along with the letter, which is where I also got the address for Honda HQ in Japan from, that I included in this post.

I have listed the contact information for both Japan Honda and American Honda

Addresses to submit your complaints to

Honda Motor Company Ltd.
8-1 Hon-Cho, Wako-City, Saitama 351-0188 JAPAN
(048) 452-1000
Mr. Cheiko Sakamoto
Parts, Sales and Service Divison


American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Honda Automobile Customer Service
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
Mail Stop: 500 - 2N - 7D
President: **** Colliver
1-800-999-1009


Now back to the issue.

There's a few things that cause excessive oil consumption.

1.) Oil control ring failure - Your pistons have 3 sets of rings on each piston. The top 2 sets of rings are compression rings. These rings help the engine maintain the required compression in the engine for it to function properly. The bottom set of rings are your oil control rings. These rings seal the cylinder from oil leaking out on to the top of the piston and getting into the combustion chamber.

Symptoms and Signs-
  • High Excessive Oil Consumption (more than 1 quart per 1000 miles, some cases may be more severe like my case where I am going through 2-3 quarts of oil every 1,000 miles)
  • Oily residue on the inside edge of your tailpipe (take your finger and wipe the inside of your tailpipe. If it's greasy and wet, and won't wipe off when you rub your thumb and finger together, then your car is burning or consuming oil excessively). If it's a dry carbon residue and it wipes off when you rub your thumb and finger together, then you're ok, as this is normal.
  • Visible grey/white/blue smoke in very discreet amounts, usually only visible when shifting on the highway. Not noticeable at startup or when idling. The reason being, when the oil rings fail and oil leaks past the oil control rings, the oil is ejected out of the cylinder into the combustion chamber where some of it is burned up, then it is ejected into the exhaust valves to the exhaust, through the catalytic converter where any remaining oil is burned up because the catalytic converter burns at such at hot temperature to kill any harmful emissions and to keep a car within emissions standards.
  • Sudden Catalytic Converter failure (if your cat suddenly fails and you have low mileage, it could be related to excessive oil consumption as the oil clogs the cat and causes it to fail prematurely)
  • Sudden o2 sensor failure (oil passing through the exhaust will ruin o2 sensors)

Oil control rings have a few ways of going bad.
  • Faulty install/Improperly clearanced
  • Using poor quality, cheap oil (use what your owners manual suggests and use a reputable brand...Valvoline or Castrol)
  • Going extended miles between oil changes (10,000 miles or more between changes, and doing this habit on a consistent basis). You should be changing your oil every 3,000 - 5,000 miles on a regular basis. Anymore than that is not advised.
  • Running an engine that is overheating for an extended period of time will cause your oil rings to heat up and lose their proper gapping required to seal oil in the cylinder.
  • starting the car and not allowing it to warm up for a few minutes (in the winter, you just jump in start it up and take off driving...this will cause oil ring failure, don't do this!)


2.) Bad Valve Stem Seals - When the valve steam seals go bad, you will start to have excessive oil consumption. The valve stem seals, seal the head from oil flowing out of the wrong ports, and keep the oil flowing in and out of the designated oil ports.

Symptoms
  • Car smoking on startup (blue/greyish smoke coming out the tail pipe) it may stop after a few minutes, or it may continue at idle, or upon accelerating from a stop-light.
  • Excessive Oil Consumption (more than 1 quart per 1000 miles)


Causes
  • Old and worn
  • Faulty seals (poorly made, poor quality material used)
  • Using Abrasive engine chemicals that can deteriorate the seals


3.) Faulty PCV Valve or clogged PCV Valve tubes - This is the least likely to be the cause of excessive oil consumption, because the PCV Valve is baffled and can't cause an engine to consume oil THAT excessively. It can cause slight oil consumption, which will be noticeable. However it is the cheapest of the 3 to fix. $20 part at your dealership. Change it out, change your oil and filter, and monitor your oil levels. If the consumption drops, you solved your problem. If the problem continues, it's not your PCV Valve.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:02 AM
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Prognosis for Repair - The news you don't want to hear.

If it's bad oil control rings.
It's going to be an expensive fix. You have to drop the engine from the car, remove the oil pan, valve cover, head, cams, and timing chain to replace the piston rings. So, while you're at it and all of this stuff is apart, you might as well replace the water pump, timing chain, tensioners and sprockets, head gasket, timing chain cover gasket, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, spark plugs, and thermostat. It won't cost you any extra in labor, because all that stuff has to go back on anyhow, the only extra cost will be the parts. For an extra fee, I recommend having the head sent to a machine shop, have the valves inspected and grinded if needed, replace the valve stem seals. This way you've taken care of the major work all at once, and you don't have to go back in later and do it again. Preventative maintenance is PRICELESS!

Parts will run you anywhere from $350 - $600 depending on where you shop. My advice is find a place where you can get OEM Honda Parts (do not use AFTERMARKET PARTS) for cheaper prices than what a Dealership will charge you. RockAuto.com is a good place to start.

If you can do the work yourself, you will save yourself THOUSANDS OF $$$$. If you pay a shop, it will be in the $2000-$2500 range at minimum (parts and labor combined). A dealership will probably be even more than that. Just on labor alone I've gotten quotes of $1200 and up. It's not cheap. If the mileage on the engine is low enough, you may be able to talk a mechanic into putting the vehicle on a lift, dropping the oil pan, and pulling the head, and just swapping in piston rings, and putting it back together. Most shops won't do this due to liability issues or if they do, won't offer a warranty on the work, because sometimes the cylinders will need to be honed, and the block machined, so most places will prefer to do the work with the engine out of the vehicle (which is why it costs so much).


If it's your Valve Stem Seals

Won't be as bad as piston rings because all you have to do is take the cam cover and valve cover off, take the timing chain off, pull the head, send it to the machine shop to have the valve guides inspected and the valves grinded if they need it, and the valve stem seals removed and replaced. Put the head back on, set the timing, put the valve cover and cam cover back on and you're done. Of course since you'll be in there, good time to replace the timing chain, tensioners, and sprockets, along with the water pump, spark plugs, and a thermostat.


There is something you can try before the other 2 options. This was told to me by a mechanic. It may work, it may not.

Go to the parts store and buy a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil. Park you car on a flat surface (preferably in the garage). take the spark plugs out. Fill each spark plug hole with Marvel Mystery Oil till it's full to the top. Let the Marvel Mystery Oil sit in there overnight (10-12 hours) so it can penetrate deep into the cylinder. After it sits, come back out and put a towel over the top of the engine and find something to anchor it down with (water jug, some heavy tools, etc). Put the key in the ignition and try to turn the car over 5-6 times (yes, without the spark plugs in it) or until all the marvel mystery oil has completely drained into the cylinder. (It's gonna make a mess, but it'll be ok!) Now put the spark plugs back in and put the coils back on the plugs. start the car up and back it out of the garage. it's gonna smoke for several minutes. once it clears up and stops smoking, pull it back in the garage let it cool down and drain all of the oil, give it an oil change, and new filter. Be sure to take a can of Goop Engine Brite and spray it in the engine compartment and take a hose and rinse your engine off from all the messy Mystery Marvel Oil that got sprayed every where when you were cranking your engine over.

The Marvel Mystery oil is supposed to seep into the cylinders and remove all the carbon build up and sludge from the pistons, compression rings, and oil rings, and allow the oil rings to re-seat and seal the cylinder off so oil can't escape into the combustion chamber and get burned up. Sometimes it works, sometimes it wont. But $10 for a bottle is a pretty cheap fix if it does.

Make sure you monitor your oil levels every day.

Record the following
  • Date
  • Starting Oil Level
  • Starting Mileage
  • Ending Mileage
  • Oil Level on your dipstick after you are done driving for the day
  • If you can, keep track of Highway Mileage and City Mileage (oil tends to burn faster at highway speeds and higher rpm's, so you will see a more noticeable difference in oil consumption when you're on the highway if the problem persists).

After 200-300 miles you should notice a difference if the Marvel Mystery Oil worked and your oil consumption should be a lot less or returned to normal consumption levels. Monitor this for the 3,000 mile duration and then do your next oil change, and evaluate your oil consumption to see if it has improved, deteriorated further, or if it has remained the same. Then evaluate your next course of action.

There's a few other options you have.
  • You can opt to fix the car as I mentioned above.
  • Give it an oil change and sell it and not tell the buyer and let it be their problem (this is a terrible thing to do, but people do it all the time).
  • Buy another Honda engine from a salvage yard and swap it in
  • Or keep driving it, and just be sure to check your oil everyday and add as needed (it won't hurt the car any at all as long as you keep oil in it, it will drive fine until the vehicle exceeds it's lifespan, but putting 10 quarts of oil in every month or more can be costly over the long run and when you go on long road trips, you have to check the oil at every gas station when you stop to fill up for gas, because the oil will burn much faster on the highway when the engine is running at higher rpm's for a constant and prolonger period of time.)

When I first noticed this problem with my car, it was like . I couldn't figure out what was wrong with the car, every forum I searched online seemed to be a dead end, no one had any answers, there seemed to be no solution. My diligence paid off earlier this month when I finally was able to figure out what was wrong with it, after finding a thread on DriveAccord.net and then talking to a mechanic locally who was familiar with the problem. I will be finally getting it fixed in September. I've opted to replace the piston rings, water pump, timing chain, gaskets, and plugs and thermostat.

I know there's plenty of others out there, who have this same problem, and they're pulling their hair out trying to find out what the problem is and how to fix it, so I hope this helps to answer a frustrating question to a frustrating problem and help you determine what the best course of action for you to take is.


This could very easily apply to other models of Honda's, and very well other car manufacturers, so hopefully it will benefit someone who may be having a similar issue with their car, and can't figure it out or aren't having any luck finding anything online.
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Old 07-29-2011, 01:45 PM
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I'd like to thank FredSVT on here, because if it weren't for his insight and contribution in another oil consumption related thread in the 7th Gen Forum, then I'd have never figured out the issue, or known to talk to ask about the oil rings to a mechanic I talked to locally. FredSVT, thanks, you played a big part in figuring this out, as well as my Write-Up that I did above.

I'm returning the thanks with my contribution of the write up, because it seems I'm the first person to successfully identify the problem, and prepare to tackle it head on, fix it, and then report back on whether it was a success or if there is still a problem (results and update to come in September).

No one else seemed to have figured out the problem (other than myself and FredSVT), and not one thread on google prior to the 5 months I invested in researching this issue had the definitive diagnosis to the problem or the prognosis, most people just speculated or took wild ass guesses which only added to the frustration, but I'm head strong and stubborn, and when I decide to figure something out, I don't stop until I have an answer and a solution, and I just decided this problem was going to get fully researched and documented for the benefit of others. So this is my contribution to this forum. I'm not looking for a pat on the back, just my way of giving back to all Honda owners and supporting a good forum.

I am taking the car to the shop to get fixed the weekend after Labor Day. Once it's back and I've driven it for a bit, I will check back in and provide an update on how the oil consumption is doing.

It will be getting

new piston rings
water pump
timing chain
head gasket
valve cover gasket
valve stem seals
thermostat
spark plugs
oil pan gasket
timing chain cover gasket
5 qts of oil
2 jugs of coolant

some of the things are just preventative maintenance (doing it while I can and the engine is part). The head will also be sent to the machine shop to have the valve inspected and grinded if necessary, and the valve stem seals replaced.

The work is being done by a Honda Master Certified Technician, so I'm in good hands.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:27 PM
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Wyatt

Glad to see you're getting it fixed.

Some comments on your write up:

Not warming it up won't damage oil control rings..... if you start it cold, say from 32 degrees and up, and drive off EASY, with LOW revs and low load it will warm faster, the pistons will expand faster and seal better reducing overall blow by past the rings. I've driven this way for years with various Hondas (4 and V6) and have never had one use oil.

If however, a person starts a car, no matter the temp, and beats the crap out of it from the get go, all bets are off. All the rings and pistons take a beating as well as the cylinder walls.

In any temp below freezing (if the car sits outside) waiting 30 seconds to a couple of minutes max is preferred OR a block heater should be installed to prewarm the engine.

The other thing I've noticed, just particular to Hondas but can apply to all cars with very low tension piston rings, is that ANY temperature excursions above normal operating temp for that make is a no-no. Honda's preferred operating temps are 176-205. Once the temp gets to 220 or higher for any extended period (more than a minute or two), I believe damage is done.

I've seen too many F series engines with bad oil rings, caused by brief periods of high temps caused by sticky thermostats.

Just so you're aware, there's no chain case cover gasket, the oil pan and front cover are sealed with rtv silicone, since he's a Honda guy, he should use Hondabond or another gray OEM only silicone with similar properties. The oil pan on most Hondas use their flange sealant, which is for larger sealing areas, such as the bottom of the block to the pan.

Black or orange aftermarket crap is a bad idea.

Hope everything works out well.
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:31 PM
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Thanks FredSVT, i appreciate the corrections and info and will definitely update this thread and the others!
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:30 AM
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WyattEarp: This thread and your posts are excellent. Your comments are thoughtful, well-researched, cogent and (thankfully) free of the usual bile and distemper surrounding warranty complaints.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
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WyattEarp: This thread and your posts are excellent. Your comments are thoughtful, well-researched, cogent and (thankfully) free of the usual bile and distemper surrounding warranty complaints.
thanks Mechanic! well, after seeing the low # of complaints (less than 100 cars for 03-05), I honestly don't think it's a warranty complaint. if it was, there'd be more people having the problem and everyone would be raising ten kinds of hell about it and that's just not the case. seems to be pretty isolated to a very low number of cars, and there's not enough evidence to support fault at Honda, so just gotta do what you gotta do and get it fixed.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:43 PM
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So there is no actual test to determine faulty valve stem seals?

I have a 2000 Civic D16y7 engine w/only 120 000 km ( 75 000 miles) = exact same problem and I babied it since new.

Not long ago, I had a timing belt and a water pump +all the belts replaced for a mere $700...now seems like money down the drain.

The tail pipe is dry soot, no blue or black smoke; what's strange though that it just past a smog test with flying colours.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:38 PM
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It is very hard to determine valve stem seals as the close coupled cat can absorb any oil being burned.

If you have a borescope, or have a shop that has one, the car needs to be driven to full operating temp, parked in the bay overnight. The next morning, the plugs are pulled, and the borescope is put in a cylinder. Then the motor is slowly rolled over by hand to get the valves to open, if the intake valve seals are bad, oil will drool past the valves when they open and into the chamber. If the exhaust valve seals are bad, the same thing will happen.

Exhaust stem seals normally don't drool into the cylinder as they "leak" when the exhaust is exiting the engine, a slight low pressure area is there once all the exhaust is pushed past, and the oil is drawn past the valve stem.

Has your Civic's PCV valve been changed, it's in the breather box UNDER the intake, slightly above and to the left of the oil filter. A pain to change.

I've seen a couple of D16 and D17 engines that use considerable oil. Both have been rings. Another case of sticky thermostats, causing intermittent excessive engine temps. The D17, had some kind of blue jelly in the cooling system causing severe hot spots.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:40 AM
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I think this issue stems into the 8th generation as well. Not sure how far it goes but my cousin's husband told me last night he traded in the 08 Accord because the engine was burning a lot of oil. He said he was getting the run around from the dealer (which he also had an extended warranty).

Before my sister traded in her 08 Accord, I never measured it but could tell that some oil was being burned as my oil bucket never filled to the point I was expecting it to.

I think the issue is more widespread but since the majority of people don't even open their hoods to check fluids they don't know that it is happening.

As more people have this issue there may be another class action lawsuit.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npolite View Post
I think this issue stems into the 8th generation as well. Not sure how far it goes but my cousin's husband told me last night he traded in the 08 Accord because the engine was burning a lot of oil. He said he was getting the run around from the dealer (which he also had an extended warranty).

Before my sister traded in her 08 Accord, I never measured it but could tell that some oil was being burned as my oil bucket never filled to the point I was expecting it to.

I think the issue is more widespread but since the majority of people don't even open their hoods to check fluids they don't know that it is happening.

I think as more people have this issue there may be another class action lawsuit.
Were these V6 8th gens?
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94 Civic Coupe: manual (sold with 45k)

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  #12  
Old 08-05-2011, 08:38 AM
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npolite npolite is offline
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Originally Posted by SatinSilver View Post
Were these V6 8th gens?
Both were I-4. I actually went out to check my 07 TSX and while the MM is down to 30% I am just above the lower end marker. I'll check it again since I am a bit on a hill in my driveway to verify the level.
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1995 Accord DX Sedan - Auto - 138k miles Dad's sold
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2011, 10:52 AM
jag jag is offline
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Originally Posted by Fredsvt View Post
It is very hard to determine valve stem seals as the close coupled cat can absorb any oil being burned.

If you have a borescope, or have a shop that has one, the car needs to be driven to full operating temp, parked in the bay overnight. The next morning, the plugs are pulled, and the borescope is put in a cylinder. Then the motor is slowly rolled over by hand to get the valves to open, if the intake valve seals are bad, oil will drool past the valves when they open and into the chamber. If the exhaust valve seals are bad, the same thing will happen.

Exhaust stem seals normally don't drool into the cylinder as they "leak" when the exhaust is exiting the engine, a slight low pressure area is there once all the exhaust is pushed past, and the oil is drawn past the valve stem.

Has your Civic's PCV valve been changed, it's in the breather box UNDER the intake, slightly above and to the left of the oil filter. A pain to change.

I've seen a couple of D16 and D17 engines that use considerable oil. Both have been rings. Another case of sticky thermostats, causing intermittent excessive engine temps. The D17, had some kind of blue jelly in the cooling system causing severe hot spots.
I changed the PCV valve few weeks ago in hope it would correct the problem. The old one did not seem to be stuck at all...and yes, it's a pain to swap at least the first time around. In reinstall, I positioned the hose clips so I can get at them right away.

FredSvt, have you ever managed to replace all 3 rings on a piston without taking the oil pan off etc.?

Npolite, your oil bucket will always have less because 08 filter is hanging down and stores oil. I can confirm however that after 1000 highway miles the oil on 08 Accord went down from top to bottom mark!!!
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2011, 11:59 AM
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Jag,

I'll buy that in the 08 but even then, it is poorly designed if the dipstick provides an inaccurate reading.

In my TSX it is mounted horizontally like in the gen 6 Accord.
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2007 TSX - Auto - 66k miles - Non Nav - CGP - Mine
2009 Altima 2.5 SL - 91k miles - Auto - Sister's
1999 Accord LX Sedan - Auto - 103k miles Dad's
2012 Camry LE - Auto - 4k miles Mom's


1995 Integra LS Sedan - Auto - 119k Sold 3/6/2008 Was Mine
2008 Accord EX Sedan - Auto - 37k miles Sister's Sold 6/20/2009

1995 Accord DX Sedan - Auto - 138k miles Dad's sold
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2011, 04:04 PM
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Fredsvt Fredsvt is offline
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jag
you have no choice but to pull the head, oil pan and pistons/rods out of the motor to change the rings.

You'll also want to get the color or letter codes of the bearings, should you need to replace them due to wear. D engines are well known for spinning rod bearings, so they probably have some wear to them.

npolite,
How many miles have you gone on the oil change when it's at the "add" or lower mark?

Every engine uses some oil, the longer the interval, the more the oil use becomes apparent. The harder the engine has to work to move the car, the more it'll use.

I notice my sister's '09 Civic Si (K20) uses 1 quart per service interval (5500-6500 mi), she's driving more sedate, since her daughter was born, and I've convinced her not to run around in 3rd gear in town, keeping the revs at 4 to 5k for no reason. At first, (in the first 10k miles) she was using almost 2 quarts per interval.

Her old Si ('02) used minimal oil in it's first 80k. Another K20. She would get me the oil and filters to do her changes, she bought some really off brand cheap 5w20, from that point, it began to drink oil at the rate of a quart per 2500 miles. She sold it for the sedan.
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