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  #46  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:32 AM
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Where in the manual does it say not to change the oil early? I've searched but I can't find anything about break-in oil.
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  #47  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:51 AM
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Where in the manual does it say not to change the oil early? I've searched but I can't find anything about break-in oil.
Where in the manual does it say not to buy new tires after 5,000 miles?
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  #48  
Old 05-04-2013, 01:06 PM
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Where in the manual does it say not to buy new tires after 5,000 miles?
Oil isn't tires. The logical extension of your premise is that you'll need a tire minder to tell you when to change your tires.
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  #49  
Old 05-04-2013, 01:09 PM
glen e glen e is offline
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it tells you to change at the 15% mark - that implies a long time before a change...
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  #50  
Old 05-04-2013, 01:35 PM
vh2k vh2k is offline
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Originally Posted by lebowski View Post
Oil isn't tires. The logical extension of your premise is that you'll need a tire minder to tell you when to change your tires.
Same principle. You can perform maintenance as recommended or earlier. If you choose to do it early, no harm done... but that doesn't make it necessary.
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  #51  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:06 PM
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Same principle. You can perform maintenance as recommended or earlier. If you choose to do it early, no harm done... but that doesn't make it necessary.
I agree, for most people. But there are exceptions and reading about this poor fellows woes makes me wonder. Against his best judgement he was persuaded to do it by the book per Honda's recommendations and do oil changes by the oil monitor schedule. Things didn't work out well:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2675186

Which reminds me; does anybody know what parameters the oil monitor uses in it's algorithm? I assume miles, and probably fuel consumption (the two give an approximation of load). How about ambient temperature and humidity. Trip duration and time since last change? Anybody know for sure?

As it seems it doesn't monitor oil condition, it derives it's recommendations based on anecdotal evidence. That can be done well or poorly. I'd hope for it being done well as it's coming from Honda, but until the algorithm is defined it's just another black box. I'd prefer to not to trust a black box until I've confirmed it's trust worthy.
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  #52  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:11 PM
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As far as I know it's a very simple algorithm: how it's driven start/stop,highway,what rpm range, basically just vehicle run history.
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  #53  
Old 05-04-2013, 02:44 PM
bgmshrm bgmshrm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebowski View Post
Oil isn't tires. The logical extension of your premise is that you'll need a tire minder to tell you when to change your tires.
the maint. minder on tires is a wear bar no need for a dummy light
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  #54  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:09 PM
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Recommended maintenance isn't determined by examining outlying situations. Recommendations are what will work 99.9% of the time.
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  #55  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:13 PM
lebowski lebowski is offline
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Originally Posted by glen e View Post
As far as I know it's a very simple algorithm: how it's driven start/stop,highway,what rpm range, basically just vehicle run history.
Interesting; I would have expected something more sophisticated from Honda.

I've been enjoying the Honda Pilot's saga about his sludged/varnished/prematurely worn engine. For those who don't really want to read through 43 pages of posts, here's one that wraps things up and fits within our own discussion:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...61#Post2689761

OP'S CHAPTER CLOSED:

Today I met with the Honda Area Rep and my Honda dealer's Service Manager. I reiterated my estimation of the situation:

1) This vehicle's variable cylinder management engine is particularly hard on oil. The cause may be a Honda design flaw or manufacturing problem or both.

2) This vehicles Maintenance Minder does not correctly consider all the factors required or properly calculate oil life based on the above engine condition, allowing the oil to run too long and deteriorate.

3) My driving habits on the interstate highways of New England have the VCM running on 3-cylinder ECO mode much of the time, exasperating the above issues which caused a premature failure of the front single overhead cam.

I asked the Rep if he thought these combination of factors amounted to a defect. He said, "I don't know" (He didn't say no). The Rep said that he reviewed the case, and he asked me several questions about the oil that had run in my Pilot. I went over the service records with him was able to show that the conventional I used oil that was equal to or better then the conventional oil the dealer was using when I had the oil changes done elsewhere. I asked him if he agreed that the oil deteriorating on only the front valve train was occurring for most of the lifetime of of the engine, while it was still under warranty. He didn't answer that question exactly, but his immediate response was to offer me assistance with the repair bill. He offered to reimburse me 70% of the $780.18, within the next week or so. Evidently the manufacturer and the dealer have a procedure for this. I thanked him, agreed, and I signed a repair order showing a refund of $546.12. I feel this is a fair resolution and am satisfied with this outcome.

We talked a bit about the engine moving forward he said that he would not be able to offer me anything like an extended warranty on future problems that might arise. The Honda Area Rep did say, however, that the best thing I could do would be to change my oil every 5,000 miles with a good synthetic brand. He added, "That's what I do with my own cars".


That settles it for me; I'll do my car's oil changes on my schedule.
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  #56  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:34 PM
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To help vehicle owners know when scheduled maintenance is due, Honda has introduced the maintenance minder system.


Q: How does the Honda Maintenance Minder work?

A: The maintenance minder system shows engine oil life in the information display to let the owner know when it is time to have the engine oil replaced and regular engine maintenance done. There is no longer a maintenance schedule in the owner's manual. The system shows engine oil life as a percentage, which drops over time as the vehicle racks up miles. It starts out at 100% with fresh engine oil, and winds down to 0%, signaling the oil life is over.

Q: How does the Honda Maintenance Minder know when the 0% trigger occurs?

A: The system counts down oil life based on engine operating conditions (both normal and severe). The on-board computer continuously monitors engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time,
and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary.

http://www.rbhonda.com/maintenance-minder-system.htm
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  #57  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:46 PM
lebowski lebowski is offline
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Bingo. Thanks dazedandconfused. Good to know.

An interesting tidbit from the site dazedandconfused linked:

Q: My Honda is equipped with break-in oil, should I change it early?

A: No. To ensure proper engine break-in, the factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the engine until the first scheduled maintenance interval.

The factory fill oil is the same as Honda Service Replacement Oil. The difference is the Molybdenum lubricant that is applied to specific internal engine components.

Assembly lube??
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  #58  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:52 PM
vh2k vh2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebowski View Post
Interesting; I would have expected something more sophisticated from Honda.

I've been enjoying the Honda Pilot's saga about his sludged/varnished/prematurely worn engine. For those who don't really want to read through 43 pages of posts, here's one that wraps things up and fits within our own discussion:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...61#Post2689761

OP'S CHAPTER CLOSED:

Today I met with the Honda Area Rep and my Honda dealer's Service Manager. I reiterated my estimation of the situation:

1) This vehicle's variable cylinder management engine is particularly hard on oil. The cause may be a Honda design flaw or manufacturing problem or both.

2) This vehicles Maintenance Minder does not correctly consider all the factors required or properly calculate oil life based on the above engine condition, allowing the oil to run too long and deteriorate.

3) My driving habits on the interstate highways of New England have the VCM running on 3-cylinder ECO mode much of the time, exasperating the above issues which caused a premature failure of the front single overhead cam.

I asked the Rep if he thought these combination of factors amounted to a defect. He said, "I don't know" (He didn't say no). The Rep said that he reviewed the case, and he asked me several questions about the oil that had run in my Pilot. I went over the service records with him was able to show that the conventional I used oil that was equal to or better then the conventional oil the dealer was using when I had the oil changes done elsewhere. I asked him if he agreed that the oil deteriorating on only the front valve train was occurring for most of the lifetime of of the engine, while it was still under warranty. He didn't answer that question exactly, but his immediate response was to offer me assistance with the repair bill. He offered to reimburse me 70% of the $780.18, within the next week or so. Evidently the manufacturer and the dealer have a procedure for this. I thanked him, agreed, and I signed a repair order showing a refund of $546.12. I feel this is a fair resolution and am satisfied with this outcome.

We talked a bit about the engine moving forward he said that he would not be able to offer me anything like an extended warranty on future problems that might arise. The Honda Area Rep did say, however, that the best thing I could do would be to change my oil every 5,000 miles with a good synthetic brand. He added, "That's what I do with my own cars".


That settles it for me; I'll do my car's oil changes on my schedule.
More power to ya. Speaking of your car, do you even own a 2013 Accord? Or you just joined this forum to share your wisdom on oil changes?
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  #59  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:54 PM
MN_Runner MN_Runner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazednconfuzed View Post
To help vehicle owners know when scheduled maintenance is due, Honda has introduced the maintenance minder system.
http://www.rbhonda.com/maintenance-minder-system.htm
I bought my car from RB-Honda but will NOT take my car there for any kind of service work. Many MN Honda dealers are telling people to ignore the MM and simply change the oil around 5000 miles. Dealers do not make any money on oil change. Just say NO to extra services and stick to an oil change. Hopefully the high school student changing the oil knows how to read the dip stick. I just would be a little conservative on OCI with a DI engine until I know better.
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  #60  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:58 PM
lebowski lebowski is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vh2k View Post
More power to ya. Speaking of your car, do you even own a 2013 Accord? Or you just joined this forum to share your wisdom on oil changes?
No I don't.

My wife does. EX-L, I4, White. Very nice car.

I thought oil changes was the point of this thread. I could be mistaken.
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