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Sound System Upgrade Questions - Generation 9

6K views 31 replies 6 participants last post by  Lashlee 
#1 ·
Ok, so I have a very small budget, like $200 or less remaining. I have a 2013 Honda Accord EX-L (generation 9) with premium audio but no navigation.

I already purchased a Kicker 100 watt stereo amp and Rockford Punch component speakers for the front and two Kicker comp d subs in a ported enclosure for the trunk with an 400 watt amp to power them. I haven't installed any of these upgrades yet but will soon. My plan is to leave the rear deck as is and just keep it connected to the factory amp since mostly I hear the front speakers anyway an not too much of the rears.

I will pull my signal for the two aftermarket amps from the back of the HU before it goes to the factory amp. I am going to use the front speakers' line output (pre-amp output) to go to the amp for the fronts and then out of that amp to the amp for the subs. I have an aftermarket bass volume knob to mount up front to control subwoofer volume and I will balance the front and rear speakers with the fader in the HU.

First question I have is do I need to do something extra to make it so the radio mutes if I get a phone call? Or does the radio automatically handle this if I tap into the front pre-amp signal coming directly from the back of the HU?

Next question, would I be better off getting an EQ or sound treatments with the extra $200 I have left to spend, or something else I haven't thought of yet? If sound treatments, what kind, in the door, trunk, floor, ceiling...where would get me the most bang for my buck seeing as how I can only afford 1 at most and not treatments on all surfaces.

Any holes in my plan I haven't seen yet? Please point them out to me!

My goal is just to have a pretty good sounding system, nothing too extreme or nothing that will win any competitions or anything like that, just some simple upgrades that will add the most value for the least amount of spend.

All helpful opinions welcome. Thanks!

Jeremy
 
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#2 ·
While I can’t exactly speak on your first question, I will say that I am pretty sure your HU will still mute on calls despite the fact your pulling the signal pre-factory amp.

As for the remaining $200...that’s tough. I say hold off on the EQ. You could consider something like a AudioControl LC7i to help not only convert the speaker-level inputs to low-level inputs, but you also gain AudioControl’s Accubass feature which will restore the bass output at higher volumes, where the factory HU typically falls off. Hopefully, our friend keep_hope_alive will chime in on this thread soon, as I’m sure he can provide additional input with this aspect.

Another alternative to utilize your extra $200 would be to sound treat/deaden. I used a mix of “Dynamat” on the inside of the doors, rear deck and trunk, and then added Soundskins deadener to the doors in between the metal in the door panels, and some areas around the door panels to reduce plastic vibration. Cost me about $250-$275 to do this with both types of deadeners. By far, sound treating really does offer some great results. You can buy a roll of Soundskins for about $90 online. One roll is enough to cover the front doors in between the metal and door panels. I’d buy two rolls, that way you can also apply some of it to the inside of the doors, especially right behind the lower door speakers up front. Any remaining deadener you have left, and you will have some left over, I would apply to the door panels around the speaker grills, and any other areas that may vibrate on the panels.

Hope this helps.


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#4 ·
Hey Steve & Lashlee, thanks for the responses. Lashlee, I was just looking at your install. That looks pretty sweet. Good job! So regarding your comment above, are you saying I can get pretty serious bang for my buck doing what Steve suggested with the sound treatments or are you saying there is a DSP in the $200 range you would recommend?
 
#6 ·
...are you saying there is a DSP in the $200 range you would recommend?
I've never used it myself, but the Dayton DSP-408 is only $150, and you can add a BT module for another $30. I've heard it's pretty good, but the controller adds noise for some people.
 
#10 ·
Is that really needed? I was thinking after I got it all set up, if the headlights dimmed out on low-end bass thumps, I would look into adding in a capacitor to fix that. But do I really need to be considering upgrading my alternator instead or in addition to caps for only 500 extra watts (400 for the bass and 100 for the fronts)?
 
#11 ·
The Dayton DSP has both an optional BT module (for both streaming and control) and a controller (controls volume, preset selection). I've seen reports that adding the controller added noise for some people. I can't confirm whether that's hardware or install related, but it's something to keep in mind.

The factory "Premium" systems (with the touch screen HU) have a (reasonably) flat output. They don't have a bass roll off like the radios in the LX and Sport models.

Honestly, if you've never had a DSP and don't know how to tune it, I'd start off with a simple LOC (or, if either of your amps has a line level output, you can use that). The first version of my install (no DSP) was a huge improvement over the factory radio and if I never heard what a DSP can do, I would been happy with it (ignorance is bliss). A DSP can be very helpful, but it can also make your system sound like crap if you don't know what you're doing.
 
#13 ·
Regarding the alternator, I am thinking I will be OK not upgrading. My reasoning is that at max RMS for both the subs' amp and the front speakers' amp I would be maxing out at about 45 amps (500w/13.8v=36.23a/0.8 for efficiency of class D amps = 45 amps). In reality, I will never have the volume up all the way, I will have it less than 50% turned up 99.9% of the time. So in reality I will be drawing more like between 15-20 amps max. If the OEM alternator is rated 130 amps, I think I am fine (guys in the thread linked above say it's 130 amps, need to confirm). If I had the volume turned up all the way I might be pushing it, but even then I think there is a chance I would be fine. I am just figure this all out now for the first time in my life, absolutely zero experience here, so please tell me where I am wrong. Thanks!

Edit: I believe the alternator is only rated at 110 amps, not 130. The OEM part number is AHGA88.
 
#21 ·
Alternator generates its nominal amps at something like 6000rpm. Amps vs. rpm is not a linear function but cruising at 2000rpm, the amps that come out of the alternator will be maybe half of the nominal amps.
 

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#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
Can someone please help! I am so confused. I read on this forum that I need an amp that accepts Differential Balanced Inputs if I am to successfully tap into the signal out of the back of my HU in my 2013 Accord EXL with premium sound package which has the separate factory amp. I want integrate a DSP into the mix between the HU and the amp. So I am assuming that the DSP has to be able to accept Differential Balanced Inputs, correct?

I was looking at the Dayton Audio DSP-408, but it does not accept differential balanced inputs. Is there a way to convert the signal from the back of the HU so I can use the Dayton Audio DSP-408?

Then I started looking at MiniDSPs but I cannot tell which one of those accepts balanced differential inputs, if any of them do. I can see that they make an unbalanced MiniDSP and a balanced MiniDSP, but is a "balanced" MiniDSP the same as "balanced differential inputs", or is that something else? I am confused because I do not fully understand what is meant by balanced differential inputs, even though I have read up on it, and the Balanced MiniDSP does not have the word "differential" in it, so I am not sure if it is the same.

Edit:
I thought it made more sense to start a new thread to ask this question, but apparently someone did not agree with me haha because they merged it onto this thread. So that is why I re-introduced what kind of car I have, etc...

What is the least expensive, yet effective, way to convert the differential balanced outputs coming out of the back of the head unit for the gen 9 Accord premium sound package (the one that has the amplifier separate from the HU). I want to convert them to normal unbalanced rca connections that can be used to input the pre-amp signal into an aftermarket amp or dsp that does not accept differential balanced inputs.
 
#15 ·
You do not need an LOC, so dismiss all of that talk. There also isn't a degradation of the low frequencies on the premium units like the LX and sport models.

You do need an amp/processor that accepts balanced differential.

IMO, you don't need a DSP, regardless of the price. I'm a fan of MiniDSP products, but don't feel you need one at this time. DSP's are not as wonderful as they seem and take some effort to properly setup and implement.

In my experience, I would spend the extra money on additional sound deadening or work on other areas of the install. Also, don't worry so much with an alternator upgrade since they don't work in every case.
 
#16 ·
Thanks Lashlee. I like that answer (regarding the DSP and alternator). Now, if you could just help me decide on sound deadening. I am leaning toward not even doing that either. I mean, how much of a difference will it really make? It seems like a lot of work. I know it is difficult to describe and really I would just have to hear a before and after example in real life to really know, but since I am assuming you have heard before and after examples, could you maybe attempt to help me understand at least to some degree. For instance, would adding just a couple hundred dollars worth of sound deadening to the doors make a difference that would be significantly noticeable, or just like I think I can hear a difference kind of difference, you know?

Oh yeah, and both my amps do accept balance differential inputs, so I am good there.
 
#17 ·
I used an “off-brand” sound deadener comparable to Dynamat I found on Amazon and Soundskins in my build. The stuff I found on Amazon had great reviews. It’s been on my car for over a year now and I’ve had zero issues. As mentioned above, you can just use Soundskins. It does take some time, but that and the money it takes to purchase make the outcome worth it in my opinion. In order to access the interior of the doors beyond the door panel, you do have to remove the factory plastic moisture barrier. You don’t necessarily have to cover the entire surface of the inside of the door with deadener, but you certainly can. I believe the rule of thumb is 20% coverage. Definitely place some deadener on the metal directly behind the lower door speakers. I used Soundskins to cover the metal surface that sits against the door panel to seal the door, and close up the holes. Ensure there are no holes for air to escape, as you’re trying to create a sealed area.

There are plenty of other sounds deadeners out there, and I’m sure everyone will have their own recommendations. Just remember, you’re purchasing deadener. Once you have it, understand the rest of the project is about devoting the time to do the job right, and having patience to complete the task. If you take the care to do it correctly, you WILL be pleased with the outcome. Is your car going to be super quiet, where you can’t hear outside noise at all, absolutely not. While exterior will decrease a bit, don’t expect for it to completely go away. You will, however, be able to tell the difference in sound output. I’ve never done the sound deadener thing before, mainly because I was concerned about the level of effort it would take to undergo the task. In my case, I was on a road to build a great sounding system and figured this aspect needed to be addressed. I purchased my Soundskins deadener from www.abt.com at $80/roll. Check out my build thread on here. I have pics of the doors with the addition of the Soundskins. Don’t have pics of the inside of the doors.


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#19 ·
Like Steve, I've used many of the brands of available deadener, with Soundskins and Raammat being my two favorites. Soundskins is hands down the easiest I've used. I simply used a pair of shears to cut and install that stuff and it worked like a dream, and well worth the money. Focus on the doors, especially covering the open holes and keeping the driver sealed to the door.
 
#20 ·
I used an “off-brand” sound deadener comparable to Dynamat I found on Amazon and Soundskins in my build. The stuff I found on Amazon had great reviews. It’s been on my car for over a year now and I’ve had zero issues. As mentioned above, you can just use Soundskins. It does take some time, but that and the money it takes to purchase make the outcome worth it in my opinion. In order to access the interior of the doors beyond the door panel, you do have to remove the factory plastic moisture barrier. You don’t necessarily have to cover the entire surface of the inside of the door with deadener, but you certainly can. I believe the rule of thumb is 20% coverage. Definitely place some deadener on the metal directly behind the lower door speakers. I used Soundskins to cover the metal surface that sits against the door panel to seal the door, and close up the holes. Ensure there are no holes for air to escape, as you’re trying to create a sealed area.

There are plenty of other sounds deadeners out there, and I’m sure everyone will have their own recommendations. Just remember, you’re purchasing deadener. Once you have it, understand the rest of the project is about devoting the time to do the job right, and having patience to complete the task. If you take the care to do it correctly, you WILL be pleased with the outcome. Is your car going to be super quiet, where you can’t hear outside noise at all, absolutely not. While exterior will decrease a bit, don’t expect for it to completely go away. You will, however, be able to tell the difference in sound output. I’ve never done the sound deadener thing before, mainly because I was concerned about the level of effort it would take to undergo the task. In my case, I was on a road to build a great sounding system and figured this aspect needed to be addressed. I purchased my Soundskins deadener from www.abt.com at $80/roll. Check out my build thread on here. I have pics of the doors with the addition of the Soundskins. Don’t have pics of the inside of the doors.


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What are your guys' thoughts on low cost peel and seal, like the kind you get at Lowe's or Home Depot for roofing repairs? It has the foil backing. It is tar based. I am not too much of a conspiracy theorist, but I guess there is a little of it in me haha, because every time I see a video knocking it I have to wonder if they do not stand to make a profit off of one of the more costly name brand materials.

Anyway, my plan right now is to kind of take a middle of the road approach, meaning I am going to use the cheap stuff & some of the more costly stuff. I bought 2 rolls of some peel and seal from Lowe's (which if you convince me that it's complete garbage I can always return it because it's still unopened). I also bought two door kits of Soundskins deadener from www.abt.com. I think what I am going to do is apply the cheap peel and seal to the inside metal frame of the door and then Soundskins to seal off the outer frame of the door (by outer, I mean the part of the door nearest the interior of the car-maybe I have my wording a bit backward, i don't know).

I am also thinking I will cover as much of the trunk as I can with the peel and seal and if there is any left of the Soundskins, use some of it in the trunk too.

Thoughts?
 
#23 ·
So to go back to your question about the deadening product you purchased vs. the name brand...I was sketchy about that stuff. I saw stuff online about it. I read about people who used it and sweared by, and others who said they tried it and that it was a huge mistake. Most of the negative was around it becoming and cracking over time. I’m on a budget myself, but decided to break apart my build in steps vs. doing everything at once. This helped the budget. When I researched deadener, what I determined was that it was best to steer clear of the product you purchased. Instead of going with Dynamat, I opted for a brand I found on Amazon called Noico. It had very decent reviews. I purchased 36 sq. ft. of their 80 mil deadener for $63. This was enough to cover at minimum 20% of all the insides of the each of the four doors, the rear deck, the trunk lid, and around the trunk and spare tire well. Mind you I didn’t cover every square inch, so I have still have a few sq. ft. leftover. I would personally recommend this product to anyone, and will continue to use it on future builds, or as I continue my current build. It’s been on the car for over a year now and it’s still holding up to the south Texas heat. You have the right idea on the process, but may want to reconsider that product you purchased. Worries me when you start using a product in an area or on something it was never intended to be used on. Sure it may be similar in nature, but you never know.

As for the alternator, I think it’s wise to consider one down the road. It’s one of those that based on your current build goal wouldn’t necessarily hurt, but certainly not required (IMO) at this juncture. Now, if you were going all out and putting in amps with lots of output, then by all means I’d say do yourself a favor and get the alternator, but right now you’re fine. I just recently did the Big 3 upgrade, and plan to purchase a “better” battery and upgraded alternator within the next year to year and a half. The batteries in the 4cyl models are tiny for my taste. I don’t trust listening to the radio very long with the car off. Worried I’ll drain the battery too quick. It’s already happened once after a 5 min stint. Had the battery replaced under warranty earlier this year. Out of warranty now, so if it goes out again, I’m incurring the cost.

Thanks for providing that graph emeron. Definitely puts things into perspective.


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#24 ·
...I don’t trust listening to the radio very long with the car off. Worried I’ll drain the battery too quick. It’s already happened once after a 5 min stint...


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I already had that happen to me as well and I still just have the stock radio. I was listening to the radio at lunch for about 15 min with the car off and that was a mistake because it wouldn't start afterward. Luckily after letting it sit until the end of the work day, when I came back it had cooled off enough that it had just enough juice left to get it started. So I never listen to the radio with the car off anymore. I am thinking about installing a volt meter.
 
#25 ·
I've only used normal car audio brands of deadener in the past, with NVX being the worst and Soundskins and Raammat being on the better end of the scale. For as much effort as it takes to get everything apart, plus the work to put it on, I certainly don't want to risk having to do that twice. I tend to go farther than most, I've pulled the headliner and deadened the roof in three vehicles, and feel it's worth the effort.
 
#26 ·
So to go back to your question about the deadening product you purchased vs. the name brand...I was sketchy about that stuff. I saw stuff online about it. I read about people who used it and sweared by, and others who said they tried it and that it was a huge mistake. Most of the negative was around it becoming and cracking over time. I’m on a budget myself, but decided to break apart my build in steps vs. doing everything at once. This helped the budget. When I researched deadener, what I determined was that it was best to steer clear of the product you purchased. Instead of going with Dynamat, I opted for a brand I found on Amazon called Noico. It had very decent reviews. I purchased 36 sq. ft. of their 80 mil deadener for $63. This was enough to cover at minimum 20% of all the insides of the each of the four doors, the rear deck, the trunk lid, and around the trunk and spare tire well. Mind you I didn’t cover every square inch, so I have still have a few sq. ft. leftover. I would personally recommend this product to anyone, and will continue to use it on future builds, or as I continue my current build. It’s been on the car for over a year now and it’s still holding up to the south Texas heat. You have the right idea on the process, but may want to reconsider that product you purchased. Worries me when you start using a product in an area or on something it was never intended to be used on. Sure it may be similar in nature, but you never know.

As for the alternator, I think it’s wise to consider one down the road. It’s one of those that based on your current build goal wouldn’t necessarily hurt, but certainly not required (IMO) at this juncture. Now, if you were going all out and putting in amps with lots of output, then by all means I’d say do yourself a favor and get the alternator, but right now you’re fine. I just recently did the Big 3 upgrade, and plan to purchase a “better” battery and upgraded alternator within the next year to year and a half. The batteries in the 4cyl models are tiny for my taste. I don’t trust listening to the radio very long with the car off. Worried I’ll drain the battery too quick. It’s already happened once after a 5 min stint. Had the battery replaced under warranty earlier this year. Out of warranty now, so if it goes out again, I’m incurring the cost.

Thanks for providing that graph emeron. Definitely puts things into perspective.


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So I totally hear what both of you are saying. I am still on the fence though. I mean, if I understand correctly, it sounds to me that while both of you have reservations, neither of you really know that the peel and seal wouldn't work, you would just rather not risk it. In other words, there is a chance it could work and be totally fine, you just don't know and do not want to take that risk. Am I restating your position on this into my own words correctly or not?
 
#27 ·
That’s correct for me. I based my judgements on research alone. At the end of the day it’s your car, not ours. Do you bro. Best case scenario, it works with no long term issues. Not trying to insult your intelligence, but make sure to thoroughly clean the surfaces your placing the deadeners on with alcohol. Also, get yourself a good roller and use it to really get the deadener on there. Plenty of how-to vids on YouTube on the process. Check them out first. There’s numerous tips and tricks to take into account.


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#28 ·
No insult taken lol. I already got a nice roller, came in the mail yesterday. I was considering just getting a cheap little paint roller and taking the cover off, but I glad I didn't. The roller I got yesterday is made of metal and it is heavy weighted so I think it will work much better. I will also be sure to clean with alcohol.
 
#29 ·
I've used the "peel and seal" stuff for Lowes/Home Depot on my last 3 vehicles including my 2017 Accord. Did I notice a difference without it before install and with it after ?? Yes. Was it the best thing possible to use - probably not. It all depends on what extreme you want to go with your setup - if you drive multiple hours a day I can see spending the money (and time) to do the best insulating possible. I spend less than 5 hours a week in my car so all I want is to deaden some of the obvious things and get a little bit better sound from the unit while I am in it. It always comes down to personal preference and $$$$$ available.

If you do go the "peel and seal" route though, make sure you seal all the joints and edges with aluminum foil tape to prevent any bleed out from the stuff - vertical surfaces will bleed over time. And I've never had any issues with odour doing this.

Just my 2 cents.

TM
 
#31 ·
I am trying to decide where to put the RCA signal wires which will start out of the back of the factory HU and go all the way back to the trunk. It would be easiest to run them along the side either next to the power wire or the other side next to the speaker wire. Do I need to be worried about interference though? Do I need to run the signal wire along a different path than either the power or the speaker wires? Also, do the speaker wires need to go along a different path than the power wire, or can the be run next to each other down the side of the car without getting interference?
 
#32 ·
The OEM amp is where you need to tap onto the signal. The OEM amp is mounted up and behind the glove box. Due to the nature of the balanced differential signal you don't need to worry about interference. Power wire and signal wire are the only one that need to be separated (in a normal non-balanced install) but everything else can be bundled together.
 
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