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Drew's quest for the toughest motor oil... or something like that :)

53K views 206 replies 46 participants last post by  Drew03Accord 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
SO I mentioned this in another thread, but thought I'd start yet another oil thread, since they seem to be so prevalent these days. Mostly, I wanted to share with my fellow OCD sufferers. LOL

I know some of you may disagree with going from a full syn to semi-synthetic, but understand that I didn't switch because of cost, or because I think Pennzoil is bad oil. It is perfectly good or better yet -- great oil. Furthermore, I've been using it for many years, before and after it got converted to the natural gas base. I also didn't switch because I needed a seal swelling high mileage oil or any of the other crap. My car doesn't leak and the engine is tight at 181K. I switched because of quite a bit of research led me to Maxlife and it has proved to have one of the toughest oil films. I also have personal experience with Maxlife oil....

Years ago, I bought a truck that had 245K on it. When pulled the dipstick, the oil was barely registering on the bottom. When I checked the owner's records, the oil hadn't been changed in roughly 20K and he hadn't checked the dipstick for probably the better part of a year. The fact that there was still oil in it, led me to purchase it (cheap). It still lives on today and is in great cond. It was later while rereading the records that I saw it had been changed with Maxlife oil. I believe that had it been a lesser oil, the former owner would have lost the engine. Anyway, I'm getting off track.

As we know, the most important job of any oil is to prevent wear. It does so by keeping a thin film of oil between moving parts. Based on that, I researched oil tests and analysis... more importantly, INDEPENDENT oil tests, which used physical torture tests resulting in scarred metal. The best one I came across is linked below. It's quite long, but my warped mind found it interesting enough to read thru to it's entirety. I've followed his writings for years on various oil forums and his tests are the real deal. I believe they cut through the hype of the oil companies and allow us mere mortals to choose an oil based on true performance.

Anyway, I ended up choosing Valvoline Maxlife 5W-30 because his (and a few other) tests had it scoring outstanding on wear protection. To use his words, it gives you a "higher margin of safety." Given that it's a semi-syn and oil companies never reveal their synthetic to conventional ratio, I add a single qt of Pennzoil platinum to ramp up the synthetic content.

Enjoy the read, if you are so inclined. Don't be confused by the fact that Pennzoil Platinum was the highest scoring oil. That was the case BEFORE they switched to natural gas formula and the old formulation is no longer available. The blog is old and he keeps updating it.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

...Drew...
 
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#2 ·
Not another oil thread. We love oil threads!

All jokes aside, thanks for the info. I tried Penz Plat once and didn't like it. The engine was a bit louder and was ticking. That's not the case with regular Penzoil High Mileage, so I switched back to conventional high mileage I was using. I may give it a go based on your thread.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the info. I have been considering switching to a high mileage oil from my conventional 5w20 I'm doing now. However oil consumption seems to be not as bad as I thought so maybe I'll just stick to conventional.
 
#7 ·
I enjoy reading about oil. Not so much that I spend much time on BITOG, but I like an article now and then.

But this Guy is so HARD to read with all the random Capitalization or Upper-casing of various WORDS. And while I admire Confidence, it's difficult to TRUST someone so Boastful as to say things like this: "Of course I’ve always known my carefully generated data is completely accurate."
 
#10 ·
I bought the 7 Gen that my son now drives new. I have to admit, I don't check the oil as much as I probably should, but thankfully, even before I change it, it is always on the upper part of the good range on the dipstick. I haven't owned a car with this many miles on it since college. This thread got me thinking that with 125K on the clock, maybe it's time for high mileage oil. With the miles I had been driving it, it didn't very often go more than 6 months without an oil change. I have to say, Mobil 1 5w20 has been good to this car.
 
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#11 ·
This thread got me thinking that with 125K on the clock, maybe it's time for high mileage oil.
If there are no leaks/burning and the engine's still sounds tight, there is no specific need for high mileage. I only ended up with Maxlife High Mileage because it scored highly in the tests. Now, it is possible that the additives formulated for it's "high mileage" designation has something to do with that.

I skipped to the list after reading a bit. M1 was his top-rated 0w-20, which is interesting as it also seems to win the cold-pour tests on Youtube.
Mobil 1 is highly rated in most tests I've come across. You can hardly go wrong with it. Not to say the Maxlife doesn't flow well, but I added 1qt of Pennzoil full syn to the Maxlife, with cold pour in mind.

But this Guy is so HARD to read with all the random Capitalization or Upper-casing of various WORDS. And while I admire Confidence, it's difficult to TRUST someone so Boastful as to say things like this: "Of course I’ve always known my carefully generated data is completely accurate."
I feel you on those points and they are valid, but don't let it dissuade you from the big picture. I haven't found a better independent test out there. The oil brands are even more boastful, if you get my drift.
 
#12 ·
I agree. If I ever thought I needed "high mileage" I'd switch to a conventional or blend as well. I've thought about running maxlife many times. But I'll stick with platinum for now, at least through this winter. Though I'd do the 5w20 instead of 5w30.
 
#13 ·
I actually tried 5w-30 once, and the engine seemed to make more noise, so it was ruled out. I went with the Mobil 1 high mileage 0w-20, and the level on the dipstick hasn't moved after 4000 miles so far, so I'll probably stick with it for now. I keep hearing that the 0w-20 is a better oil than the 5w-20, and since Honda now recommends it for our engines, I switched.
 
#18 ·
Try this oil...it scored outstandingly. All the rest with same viscosity were faaar below it.

0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN synthetic = 96,364 psi


I haven't had the balls to go with oil that thin yet. Here is how I see it. Why aren't just about all light vehicle engine oils made with winter weight viscosity of zero? Don't we all want quickest cold flow? I mean, why does 5W-20 even exist if 0W-20 will heat up to the same viscosity? And these oils are being used in the same engine class, so you really can't say the engine "needs" 5W, or even 10W, over 0W. The margin of safety with these super thin oils is quite low. I mean, there is a reason why my riding mower tells me to avoid using multi-grade oils in the heat of summer, yet recommends them in winter (yes, I know it's not water cooled). It tells me to stick with SAE30 instead in the heat. That "0w" has a thinning effect on 20W or 30W side of things... it's not that linear and they are not exclusive at the hot end of the temp range.

Take two cars, identical in every way, including engine condition. Run one with 0W-20 and the other with 5W-30. You may never notice a difference. Both oils may be good enough. Now, introduce an extreme condition. A busted coolant hose or a hole in the oil pan. Which one do you think will come away with the least damage, if caught within a reasonable time? I use extreme examples, but it could be something as demure as an inattentive owner who hates to check oil or coolant levels, or lets it go for too long. We have plenty of those here.
 
#15 ·
I personally am a fan of Castrol 20w50 in some applications.
 
#16 ·
before and after it got converted to the natural gas base
I can't say anything about the formula, but I can tell you this.

The synthetic oil in most synthetic oil starts as ethylene (more likely) and/or propylene (less likely). You can get to ethylene or propylene by cracking either cuts from crude oil of natural gas liquids. You have to be more selective in choosing the NGL if you want a significant propylene fraction. But those molecules are the same, whether from nat gas or crude, and the downstream molecules will be the same and perform the same, assuming they are in the same formulation.

Natural gas base means it's more likely have come from US hydrocarbon production, but the amount of US crude production is much higher than it was even five years ago.
 
#17 ·
I've been using that oil (maxlife 5w-20)exclusively over the past 4 years because Wal-mart used to run good rebates for maxlife and other valvoline oils.

No complaints so far, 162k miles and no leaks so knock on wood.
 
#22 ·
If you're inferring to me being on the take, please note that I didn't review anything, nor am I receiving anything. I just shared info on research done by someone else and he didn't seem to be on the take either. You can take it or leave it.

You've only got 20 posts here, so I understand if you're a bit ignorant to members here, but at least read a little.

...Drew...
 
#24 ·
@TIKIMAN: I hope you are joking....

We can make fun of Drew for his choice of Sports teams or that he is originally from New York City (New York City? Get the rope!)....but not his integrity. Not that man.
 
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#25 ·
Thx, Rick. At least I'm not a Braves fan. 0-8 on the road. LOL

I'll look for it, for the next oil change, but I'm not inclined to go searching at every store in town, for a specific oil. If Wally World doesn't have it, I'll just pick up Mobile 1 in either the 0w-20 or 5w-20, and assume it's safe..
BLCK..... They have it at Walmart. I saw it today while picking up a gallon of Maxlife for the truck.
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
Okay guys... for those that care. I'm pretty stoked that Rick Jackson (540 RAT) has resumed torture testing of motors oils. I'll cut to the chase and copy in the following info from his blog...

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

5W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic (gold bottle) = 121,396 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested Fall 2015, and it produced the highest psi value seen in my testing from any oil just as it comes right out of the bottle with no aftermarket additives.


For the record, I've never used Quaker State due to some bad past history... but things and times have changed. 121,306 PSI on the torture test, blows the Maxlife I've been using out the water. I'll be happy to switch to it for my next oil change. That means I'll also be returning to 5W20 because as of now, this particular oil offers more protection than any 5W30 I've used. Furthermore, it's one of the cheapest full synthetics out there. In the near future, he should be testing the 5W30 version, but unless it's considerably higher, I'll stick with this. Now if a 0W comes along that beats this oil, then I'll move to that.

Rick, would you mind retitling the thread to say "Drew's quest for the toughest motor oil"... or something like that? Thanks!
 
#80 ·
For the record, I've never used Quaker State due to some bad past history... but things and times have changed. 121,306 PSI on the torture test, blows the Maxlife I've been using out the water. I'll be happy to switch to it for my next oil change. That means I'll also be returning to 5W20 because as of now, this particular oil offers more protection than any 5W30 I've used. Furthermore, it's one of the cheapest full synthetics out there. In the near future, he should be testing the 5W30 version, but unless it's considerably higher, I'll stick with this. Now if a 0W comes along that beats this oil, then I'll move to that.
!
This is my basic advice... pick the highest scoring oil with the lowest viscosity, preferably synthetic.
So that old Rickblaine used his ESP on me and closed that other oil thread. I guess he could sense me cracking my fingers, getting ready to put in my 2 cents. Well, he forgot about this thread! (insert evil laugh here) :devil Anyway, I hope this oil thread is somewhat more useful than the thousands that litter this forum. I'm keeping my promise to update it as more stress tests are performed.

Most will tell you that you can’t go wrong with modern oils, just pick the right weight. I will tell you that they are mostly right, but there is also come crap out there. I still want the best of the best, as I plan on driving this car till the wheels fall off. At 500K, it just might make a difference, or at the very least, a difference if my radiator busts and the car overheats :) Also, it always seems to be a murky subject that people either shy away from, or they gush endlessly over favorite brands like Amsoil or Royal Purple, like freakin Amway salesmen. I'd rather give you something you can sink your teeth into. I don’t give a crap about name brand loyalty or the claims of oil makers. Take independent tests and tell me what performs! That’s the straight dope.

I'll cut to the chase. The latest test on Quaker State Ultimate durability 0W20 blew everything else out of the water. As I’ve quoted above… you want the thinnest oil with the highest protection. This oil tested better than much thicker oil in physical torture test, so you are not taking a risk - even in summer heat. I managed to convince RAT to go back and test it again at a high temp and he obliged. Results below…

---------------------------------------------------------

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

0W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, synthetic (gold bottle) = 124,393 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested in Spring 2016. The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category. In addition to that, it also produced the highest psi value seen in my testing from any oil just as it comes right out of the bottle with no aftermarket additives.

However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil did have a 14.7% drop in capability. But, even at that elevated temperature, it produced an impressive 106,163 psi, which still kept this much hotter and thinner oil in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category

---------------------------------------------------------------------

My last oil change was @ 192K about 2 weeks ago and that is what I’m now running. I’m not a “warm up the car before moving” type of guy. I start it, put my seatbelt on, put it gear and drive off slowly, increasing RPMS about a mile later. It’s nice to know that this flows quicker than the 5W30 I used in the past, while offering even more protection. Oh and please note that I’m not drawing info solely from the stress tests. I’ve also researched UOAs that show it holds up well over time. Have I run one? Nope! I’m a cheap bastard… remember?

You might also want to read up on this…

Petroleum Institute quality test results for 0W20… (check out the high Moly content!)

Petroleum Quality Intitute of America

So there you go. This is the oil I’m settled on for now. I don’t see anything else topping it anytime soon. Cheaper than other full syns (about $21 at Walmart) and performs better. A no brainer for me. And no, I gain nothing here. I'm not in bed with anyone (other than my hot GF). Just sharing what I do with my own car, if anyone gives a crap.

…Drew….
 
#28 ·
Crap! You mean the penzoil platinum I've been using make my car not last as long?!?
 
#29 ·
PP rates as a "good" oil. It was rated "outstanding" before the switch to the natural gas formulation that you now see today. You will be fine using it. I used it for years. The tougher oil films offer better protection during extremes.
 
#30 ·
I'm coming up on another oil change. I have PP 0w20. Thinking of switching back to Mobil 1 5w20.

I'm sure QS is fine, but I've heard those stories too.

Either going to be Maxlife w20, Mobil 1, PP, maybe Valvoline synthetic. I'm really debating the Maxlife.
 
#31 ·
Honestly, Pennzoil had some horror stories back in the day too. The QS sludging issue was back in the 50's and maybe the 60's. I think a few things have changed since then. LOL

All the oils you listed are great oils. The QS ultimate durability full syn... I've been hearing good things about it prior to this. Many say the car runs quieter overall and cold start chatter is reduced. I won't be switching to it just yet. Got a gallon of PP and Maxlife stili in the garage.
 
#33 ·
Wait so even tho Honda recommends 5w-20 or 0w-20, you're saying you think the 5w-30 will help? I think there was a video with ErictheCarGuy with Valvoline? saying how using the thicker weight oil than recommended may not be the best idea.


I'm glad the 0w-20 is rated pretty high! 36th is high, right? I switched to it when I got the car at 155k miles. No leaks so far and haven't burned much oil so I'm happy.
 
#34 ·
I've been running 5W30 for almost the entire time I've had this car.

It's true that Honda recommends 5W20, but if you leave North America, these same engines are spec'd for 5W30. The switch to 5W20 here in the U.S., was mainly due to the need to meet CAFE standards. This meant that on a whole, each car would eek out a slightly higher gas mileage 1-2%. Almost invisible to the individual owner but if we viewed all our Accords as a fleet, the average fuel drop goes a long way to helping Honda Corp. meet the standards. There are penalties to a manuf. if the standards are not met.

Having said all that, I will also say this. These modern oils have blurred the lines where protection is concerned. You can't just look at viscosity anymore because it's not just about the base oil. The additives are where it's at and as such, have a huge effect on the cushioning between moving parts. Ideally, you want to run the thinnest oil possible, BUT ONE THAT CAN PROTECT WHILE BEING THIN. They can all do this, but to varying degrees. If you listen to their hype, they're all the best. That's why I suggest reading the blog which I linked. Once these oils are torture tested, that's basically where the hype stops and the truth comes out. At the end of the day, it's about performance and as you can see, a thinner viscosity can protect better than a heavier grade oil... it all depends.

Right now, QS ultimate durability 5W20 full syn (Gold bottle) is at the top of the heap. It performed better than the Maxlife 5W30 I've been using...which performed better than the PP 5W30 which I'd being using before that.

As things change, I'll come back and update this thread. QS ultimate durability 5W30 will be tested soon.

...Drew...
 
#37 ·
Nothing wrong with that. It's an excellent oil which rates outstandingly... but don't be so resistant to change. LOL

Yes, but is it for a different reason that max life was at the top last time?

Besides, the torture tests test the oil one way, a worst case scenario. Wouldn't you agree that the engine, with smooth surfaces and pressure lubrication, shouldn't have an issue with any oil. Still interesting to see the tests though.
The tests are run to mimic normal operation at a normal temp. The pressure between metal parts is increased until scarring occurs. The protection with oils that score higher, will not be appreciated as much if your engine never sees any extremes. Overheat or lose oil though and that may change.

Note that flow rate is not being tested. This is my basic advice... pick the highest scoring oil with the lowest viscosity, preferably synthetic.



"Drew's quest for the toughest motor oil... or something like that :)" The mods got jokes! Was it Rick, or Avi???? :grin
 
#39 ·
This seems as good a thread as any to ask a question I have had for while. A lot of posts in this thread and other oil threads indicate that using oil is a bad thing. I have thought for years that a little oil consumption, as long as it isn't leaking, might not be bad at all.

My 2014 I4 has about 30K miles and has used about 1 quart between changes (aprox 10K miles) since the first oil change. I usually top it up when it gets about 1/2 quart low. I consider this OK because I am adding a little fresh oil between changes. This refreshes the additives a little.

Where am I going wrong with this line of thought?
 
#40 ·
1 quart per 10K is nothing. don't worry.
 
#41 ·
I've been using a mix of M1 0w-20 and toyota genuine 0w-20 for my various vehicles since a dealer near me has it for around $4.30 a quart. TGMO rates very highly on the bobs forum. honestly, i can't tell the difference between either.
 
#44 ·
Interesting thread.

I know this topic has been beaten lol. But for quite a while now, I have been debating doing my own oil changes. Financially it doesn't make sense to me as long as I continue using conventional.

However, I feel like it would be a good learning experience. Whenever the winter season is over, I will probably decide to do my first oil change DIY. I think even if I don't continue to do it regularly, it's good to do it at least once just so I know how to.

For a car that may or may not have ever been run on synthetic, but doesn't have any major oil consumption problems (at least with conventional), what oil would you guys recommend? I've been sticking to conventional 5w20 and had no issues. Would MaxLife be a good option to try?
 
#45 ·
Interesting thread.

I have been debating doing my own oil changes. Financially it doesn't make sense to me as long as I continue using conventional.

Would MaxLife be a good option to try?
Come on Mr.s Fancy Pants! Get them hands dirty :nerd Oil changes are fun! Honestly, I love doing them. I'm running Maxlife in wife's Santa Fe. Will switch from Pennzoil High Mileage to Maxlife tomorrow on my Accord.

Drew's allegations of me being resistance to change will be refuted tomorrow. :wink
 
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#46 ·
What a read !

Quick question though - where's the mention of the almighty Canadian Tire MotoMaster 5w-20 motor oil !!!!! BLASPHEMY I SAY !!!!
 
#47 ·
I've been running M1 5-20w or Valvoline, Castrol, if it's on sale for a great price.

This change I added a bottle of Lucas Friction Modifier, The car runs like new, can hardly tell it's on.

Remember, if you're burning oil, a higher viscosity will raise oil pressure, thus causing you to burn more oil.
 
#51 ·
For reference...

The Wear Protection reference categories are:

.
• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection

.
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection

.
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection

.
• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection

.
• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection

 
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