Drive Accord Honda Forums banner

Rev Hang - 2.0T Manual

13K views 39 replies 14 participants last post by  RickBlaine 
#1 ·
OK - I know it's been discussed in a few threads here at DA, but I am looking for some thoughts.

Been driving the 2.0T 6MT for about a week (still only about 400 miles on it). I have to assume that the rev hang is what is making my 1-2 shift very slow.

I am trying to be extremely deliberate and slow, releasing the throttle, then apply the clutch, shift to 2nd, wait what feels like an eternity (but probably about 1 or 2 seconds), then release clutch as I apply throttle. I know that there are (or will be?) ways to get rid of rev hang via a tune, but I am not ready to go there yet.

I feel like the throttle even "blips" a little bit before it hangs when I try to shift, and I am still working on my technique. This is why i described the sequence above as release throttle, THEN apply clutch. I feel like in my past MT driving days (20-ish years ago), the throttle release and clutch application were more of a simultaneous act, but this seems like it makes the hang even worse.

So are there any thoughts out there on technique for minimizing the effect of rev hang on the 1-2 (and to a lesser extent, 2-3) shifts? I suspect that the answer is going to be "Get used to it", but just thought i would ask.
 
See less See more
#4 ·
Yup...rev hang, a tune from KTuner will eliminate that, and I believe Hondata does as well?

METFANANT WAS BANNED FOR BEING A LYING POS SALESMAN MAKING COMMISSION ON SALES - DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING HE WRITES
 
#6 ·
Pretty sure the hang is present on all newer Hondas(and Acuras). Good to mention the warranty bit, though.

If I had gotten an 8th Gen 6-6, hell yeah! Screw rev hang.

Sent via MHA-L29. Whatever.
 
#7 ·
Hondata does eliminate rev hang 100%, but only after warming up. If I go above 3k in the mornings on the way to work and it hasn't fully warmed up, it will hang. I don't really do it often but if I have to go, I have to go lol
 
#10 ·
My own personal opinion is probably NOT to tune. Mainly out of concern for warranty. I have done virtually zero investigation into these tunes, though.

For now I am just trying to mitigate the rev hang by adjusting my (still rusty) technique, with the hope of not putting unnecessary wear on the clutch. I am getting closer to my "break in" period conclusion, so I hope to get a little more aggressive in my driving soon. :grin
 
#17 ·
People like to tinker. Heck, a local dealer has facebook videos of them installing Hondata on a Civic. I bet if Honda wanted to they could make ECU tampering impossible. Why anyone would want to mess with engine parameters for a powertrain that was engineered for a gazillion bucks is beyond me. If there is some sort of telemetry "snapshot" for the engine like they have for the transmissions then maybe there is a smoking gun. Stereos, light bulbs, ballasts, intakes, anything not OEM could all have potential issues with operation but proving that these invalidate a warranty could be difficult. When I lived in downstate NY, we had emissions testing and I would hope that these tunes are CARB compliant.
 
#18 ·
Probably because these "gazillion dollar" engine parameters are very economy oriented and often leave crazy amounts of safe power on the table...Honda also programs things like rev hang, or artificial dampening to throttle response into the ECU, which do nothing but dumb down and dull the driving experience...

Some Honda dealerships are actually certified Hondata sales/installation centers...

As for emissions regulations...some tunes are, some are not...but once again...a flash back to stock takes minutes, and with KTuner could be done from your phone before getting your inspection if it wouldnt pass with the tune
 
#19 ·
Interesting thread. WRT the initial subject of the thread -- rev hang -- this has been a somewhat unique Honda annoyance for years. It, of course, is emissions related. The overrun can be mitigated (not eliminated, but worked around) by lifting your foot off the accelerator a nanosecond (so to speak) before shoving in the clutch. This obviously requires some initial concentration, but after a while it become a matter of muscle memory. You don't even think about it. You're out of the throttle for a quarter second or so and then the clutch goes down. No rev hang. Essentially, you are physically (with your footwork) defeating what Honda has programmed into the ECU.

(Let me get ahead of those who doubt this works. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. It's works for me, and I've been doing it for years, going back to the '09s Accords [and carbureted V-Dubs in the early '70s]. I'm not going to argue the point.)

Now, let's turn briefly to the issue of flashing or otherwise altering the ECU: I've read every word that Hondata has written, and nothing I've read even hints at the conclusion that an ECU can be re-coded without detection. FWIW, I'm with RickBlaine regarding this issue. IMHO, if Honda suspects the ECU has been re-coded (i.e., flashed, whatever you wish to call it), the company will bring in one of their coneheads who does this work for a living, who can and will retrace what's been done. Y'all can argue this point until the cows come home if you wish, but my experience indicates otherwise.
 
#21 ·
Now, let's turn briefly to the issue of flashing or otherwise altering the ECU: I've read every word that Hondata has written, and nothing I've read even hints at the conclusion that an ECU can be re-coded without detection. FWIW, I'm with RickBlaine regarding this issue. IMHO, if Honda suspects the ECU has been re-coded (i.e., flashed, whatever you wish to call it), the company will bring in one of their coneheads who does this work for a living, who can and will retrace what's been done. Y'all can argue this point until the cows come home if you wish, but my experience indicates otherwise.
Apparently not EVERY word...


sure...however...
yes, i know that if they scan the ecu, it likely tells them how many times the ecu has been flashed...

Not that we are aware of.
If you return to stock...and the dealer cannot tell how many times the ECU has been flashed...they won't know it has been
 
#20 ·
Anyone think about your insurance company? If for example they had information that your car was tuned. Years ago in Long Island there were fatalities when a Grand National was racing a Monte SS and crashed into a wedding limo. The judge wasn't at all pleased that the Regal, the quickest vehicle in the quarter mile at the time was traveling well over 100 in a 35 zone.
 
#25 ·
Well, this thread didn't go as I had intended. I think i would fall into the "conservative owner" demographic here, and I am not comfortable with tuning at this point.

I was just looking for ideas/suggestions about mitigating the effect of the rev hang during the 1-2 shift (via technique changes). I still need to get some good drive time in the car to refine this! Weather here has been lousy!
 
#29 ·
I currently work for Subaru. In our area, I can tell you that Subaru has never, I repeat NEVER said no to a new engine, even though our dealer and corporate Subaru knows the car has been heavily modded. I've seen it all and Subaru refuses to deny an engine claim on WRX's and STI's. I've seen one owner blow up 3 heavily modded engines in a WRX and Subaru kept buying them. Finally, the owner gave up and traded it in on an STI. 3 weeks later, he blew it up. Subaru put an engine in it but he never picked it up, he went elsewhere. I don't know what became of his STI, I think it became a buy-back.

Why does Subaru do this? Subaru has been pushing extremely hard to market their cars here in the south. They send reps out to the local dealers and tell them to buy everything and anything to do with "questionable" warranty repairs. Per Subaru corporate, Subaru dealers in our area are not allowed to say "no problem found" on a customer's work order. If a customer complains about anything, we have to replace the component in question, whether it fixes the "imaginary" problem, or not. If A customer complains that his car is pulling to the right, even though the technician verifies that it's not, we check the alignment. If the customer still complains, we replace the tires. If they continue to complain, we will replace every component in the front and rear suspension until the customer is satisfied, EVEN IF THER WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CAR TO BEGIN WITH!!

Subaru's are pretty much warranted for life from dog damage. Why? Because their marketing says they're "dog tested, dog approved."

It's ridiculous, really.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Graycar
#32 ·
@meowcat, Subies and oil consumption, or is that a thing of the past? If it's a current issue how to they deal with it down there? I hear nightmare stories about valves sticking and folks being told 1qt per 1k miles is normal but then I see neighbors that have old subies that run forever and many repeaters. What's the deal?
 
#30 ·
Interesting, meow cat....

My neighbor has a 2009 Impreza, 130k miles, 2.5 L engine, and the dealer has recently diagnosed the dreaded head gasket leak problem. The repair estimate is $1700.

He has been dragging his feet over the repair, and I have warned him that if coolant gets in the engine oil, it could mean goodbye engine in short order. Do you know if Subaru offers any assistance for this known and widespread problem?
 
#35 ·
To be honest with you, @Graycar, it's something we don't see in our area. I've heard of the infamous "head gasket leak" but, personally, we've never seen one come into our shop. The big dollar warranty work we do is blown up WRX's, an occasional STI and a few oil consumption cases, but I would say that greater than 90% are destructed WRX's. The WRX just cannot handle the tune mods without custom internals. If you chip a WRX and do nothing else to the internals, you will blow the engine, guaranteed. Even some of them stock can't be abused too hard. The STI holds up much better to mods, but it's still not indestructible.

It should be noted that, in my opinion, the warranty repair work done on modded Subaru's is done out of good faith by Subaru simply because they will stop at almost nothing in capturing market share down here in the south, and it's working, BIG TIME!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Graycar
#31 ·
I am always surprised at who on the internet it's often petrol heads who make being able to drive stick, and keeping a stick car as being more of a wo/man. And then they get a new car that behave different from what they are used to, and instead of thinking it's another tick to master it they do all sort of stuff to change it to what they are used to.

Ok that said rev hang is I think typical for new cars and especially DI engines. My Mazda had it and it also had what a lot of online folks thinks as too soft engine mounts. So they all went for a hard piece of plastic and call it fixed. I didn't see the point after a few months didn't matter about the rev hang or soft engine mount, I got used to it. And if people can't well sure you can mod it but give it a go first.

A lot of times the issues are because people wanted to accelerate fast and rushed the shift, but as a racing instructor friend keeps saying you accelerate fast by accelerating fast not shifting fast. That was a useful piece of advice.
 
#34 ·
Rev hang isn't really just something to "master," or a car behaving in a way someone isn't used to...it's an artificial retardation of the speed your throttle closes off...this is done completely for emissions purposes, and frankly causes you to be more deliberate, and slower operating the clutch...

That's something nobody should have to get used to...
 
  • Like
Reactions: UnknownJinX
#33 ·
You never had your car....

Too many granny shifters on this forum. I'm going back to The FaceBook.





I wonder if tuners will include the blinking laptop warning page?
 
#38 ·
Not sure if this has been mentioned. On the 7th gen forum, many have taken the check valve out of the slave cylinder to eliminate the rev hang. I am not sure if that is the same with the 10th gen, nor would I want to mess with it on a brand new car. What some have done is bought a replacement slave cylinder, removed the valve and installed the modified one so they always have the original to put back in.

I never did that on mine because I never noticed the rev hang, or it never bothered me, and that seemed like too much trouble that might cause other problems in the future.
 
#39 ·
Replacing the slave cylinder does not address the "rev hang" issue, it only allows the clutch to engage harder and reduces wear on the friction plate. When the AP2 S2000 was released in 2004, Honda added the clutch delay valve to the clutch slave cylinder, in which many owners didn't like and replaced or took apart their clutch slave cylinder and removed the delay valve. There was no rev hang issue on the S2000.

In this case, the ECU is to blame since it does not cut fuel completely when the clutch is disengaged.
 
#40 ·
^Good clarification @S2k_Dude.

Two different issues, two different solutions. Neither affects the other.

@meowcat: Excellent contribution to the discussion, thank you! This reminds me of Mitsubishi in the late 1990s/early 2000s. They too wanted market share at all costs. Service would repair everything modified that came in, sales would approve every buyer as long as they had a pulse (and some who evidently were quite dead), and corporate was never around as they were being laid off.

The EVO-WRX battles in the 2000s reminded me of the decades old Camaro/Mustang/Challenger fight.

By the way, the old 3000GT/Stealth V6 Twin Turbo engine internals were good for a HP increase from 320 (stock) to 420 without any mods. The bottom end was even good for 500HP.

I would also like to add the Mitsubishi Eclipse AND Eagle Talon (!) AND Plymouth Laser. Mitsubishi would fix your modified Eclipse, but the similarly built Eagle and Plymouth would be "prognosis negative". In pre-internet forum days- word spread and NOBODY bought the Eagle/Laser anymore....the dealerships were not mod-friendly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: S2k_Dude
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top