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CVT Blues, think I got Jiffy Lubed

5K views 30 replies 19 participants last post by  n8phu 
#1 ·
Greetings all,

Found this forum searching for some OBDII codes for my 2014 LX sedan. I have had nary a problem with this car (except for changing out the peanut bulbs for the Daytime running light). This car has always been a solid performer for me. I bought it certified used. Currently has 175K on it (I have to drive quite a distance back and forth to work from home, long story)

A couple of days ago, I had gotten off of the highway and was at red light on a city street, went to take off when the light turned green, the car acted like the brakes were still on. This went on for a couple of seconds, then everything seemed to be fine. 20 more miles up the road it happened again. I pulled over into a lot to check the brakes, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Got 10 more miles up the road and the car went into what I think is termed "Limp Home" mode. It down shifted into 2nd gear and the shift indicator displayed all of the symbols at once. The check engine light came on at this point.

I pulled into a parking lot, shut the car off, did an under hood check, couldn't find anything. Started it back up, and that was that, the car would not move under its own power. Engine starts, brakes work, everything else is good, it just doesn't seem to go into gear.

I guess a few details are needed.:
2014 Accord 4 door, 4 Cylinder 2.4L, CVT transmission.

I had the oil changed at Jiffy Lube about 45 days prior to this happening.

Had the car towed the last 5 miles to work. Thought maybe the CVT fluid had gone off as it was time to change it anyways. When I last changed it (136K) I drained out 4 quarts, I put in 4 quarts of HCF-2 I bought at the dealer. When I went out to the car and drained the CVT fluid, I got 5(!!) quarts out of it that did not in any way, shape, or form look like used CVT oil. Yes, I saved all 5 quarts in containers, I am thinking of having it analyzed.

I had a buddy tow the car home and dug out my OBDII code reader, I have P0780 and P1899 showing. I found a general definition of what P0780 is, but I can't find a definition for P1899. I will have to stop by the nearest dealership and pick some brains at the service department.

I think I got buggered by someone who thought that the little stub on the bottom of the plug for the CVT fill hole was a dipstick and added the normal Honda ATF DW-1 to it thinking they were doing right. At this point I think the CVT is dead due to an over fill condition. My options now are to have the CVT rebuilt (Very expensive) or buy a low mileage (62K) pull from a local recycle yard and have it installed (Not as expensive, but still...)

So dear reader, be careful who you let service your car. The wife went online and found a SLEW of unhappy people with cars that have had bad things done to them by other people, let this be a cautionary tale.
 
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#2 ·
Ouch! That sucks. I haven't gone to a Jiffy Lube, or similar place, in, well, I can't remember the last time. The Toyota dealer where I have taken my Highlander for its oil changes has an "Express" service, a Jiffy-Lube-like, no-appointment facility. I don't even like going there. I have had them pull a few bonehead things on the Highlander. Have an appointment today for an oil change in the regular service center. No more Express for me.

Edit: Why don't you see if you can get Jiffy Lube to fork over for the CVT replacement?
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
The CVT oil was black and smelled burnt... but there was another god awful smell with it, something I have not smelled before..I kept my wits about me and kept all 5 quarts... I will have to go out later or in the morning and take a photo of it and upload it here.

Jiffy Lubes report just says "sealed" next to the transmission section.


Interesting Update:

I found a local recycle yard that has a used CVT for a very reasonable price plus a 1 year warranty. I went down to the local Honda dealer to get a price for swapping out the transmissions..seems they had a car come in last week with the exact same condition.... 5 quarts of ...something in the CVT and it had just been to the local Jiffy Lube.

Makes me think someone has been telling their techs to put Honda ATF DW-1 in the CVTs..........




If I can prove that this was their fault, that will be the #1 option.
 
#3 ·
I gave up on quick change stores a long time ago for these very reasons. And a few horror stories about blown engines with Jiffy Lube filters on them. As long as I can crawl under the car, I'll do my own.

I do have a service facility near me that I trust, as I have been using them for years.

The OPs tale is one of tragedy, I fear. Good luck with this and do keep us posted.

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#4 ·
Finally at a point in my life I want to keep this car for a good 10 years. Tales like this are so sad to hear. The last time I visited a Quicky Lube was probably 35+ years ago. I'll do what I can myself for as long as I can, but do have a trusted shop in the area I'd let work on her.

So sorry to hear this OP. As stated above, good luck getting things back in order.
 
#6 ·
Last time I had an oil change in one of "express" lube services (not JL) they left a mess of excess oil under the cover, and the car (CR-V) spilled oil over my driveway. I got it done outside of the house just so I would not have to worry about making a mess and having to clean it up. I paid for the oil change AND had to clean up after. Defeats all of the purpose. I ended up getting a refund for labor, paid for oil only, and learned a valuable lesson. It's express not because they have a streamlined process and efficient techs, it's express because they cut corners.
 
#7 ·
I no longer even bring my 2010 Corolla to a quick change....my last experience was they over tourqued the filter and could not subsequently remove it without breaking things. Fortunately, it was their filter and with their previous invoice they very reluctantly agreed to have Toyota replace the part (~$100). They were irritated of course, as they could not wiggle out of their poor work.

I'm out with all of 'em!!!!!
 
#9 ·
I've never been to a quick lube place. I don't pay other people to do what I can do myself.
good luck
 
#10 ·
I would send a sample to see if it is Regular transmission fluid. I would send a letter to the Jiffy lube location to lay out your case and demand payment and see what happens. I would get it fixed and if they did not pay I would take them to small claims court with your evidence.

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#11 ·
I'm a bit confused. Here, you said that the 5 quarts you drained out looked new.
Had the car towed the last 5 miles to work. Thought maybe the CVT fluid had gone off as it was time to change it anyways. When I last changed it (136K) I drained out 4 quarts, I put in 4 quarts of HCF-2 I bought at the dealer. When I went out to the car and drained the CVT fluid, I got 5(!!) quarts out of it that did not in any way, shape, or form look like used CVT oil. Yes, I saved all 5 quarts in containers, I am thinking of having it analyzed.
But here, you say it was black and smelled burnt. Maybe I just missed something.
Hope you get it resolved.
The CVT oil was black and smelled burnt... but there was another god awful smell with it, something I have not smelled before..I kept my wits about me and kept all 5 quarts... I will have to go out later or in the morning and take a photo of it and upload it here.
 
#12 ·
I'm a bit confused. Here, you said that the 5 quarts you drained out looked new.

Had the car towed the last 5 miles to work. Thought maybe the CVT fluid had gone off as it was time to change it anyways. When I last changed it (136K) I drained out 4 quarts, I put in 4 quarts of HCF-2 I bought at the dealer. When I went out to the car and drained the CVT fluid, I got 5(!!) quarts out of it that did not in any way, shape, or form look like used CVT oil. Yes, I saved all 5 quarts in containers, I am thinking of having it analyzed.
But here, you say it was black and smelled burnt. Maybe I just missed something.
Hope you get it resolved.
Yes you missed something..... He did not say it looked new.
He said it did not look like used CVT fluid....
You misread that as it looked new. I read it as it looked worse. That it looked completely not like CVT fluid at all....
 
#13 ·
I usually take my cars to Jiffy lube for yearly state inspections, they are fast and efficient. However, I never see the same faces there and they are usually young kids. I don't know what's better these days, a sealed for life transmission or one that's easy to change frequently (provided you use the correct fluid of course). Trans fluids are so customized these days there is a greater chance of human error. Take Honda alone, they have the 6 speed, the CVT, the hybrid CVT, the 9 speed and the 10 speed. They all require their own fluid and some aren't simple drain and fill procedures. To the OP, does Jiffy even use Honda CVT fluid or is it some type of universal fluid. If they used universal fluid, I think you could be stuck on that one. However since the report says "sealed" I interpret that as they didn't touch it.
 
#15 ·
I took my Accord to a quick lube place once, ever, because it was winter and too cold for me to do it myself (and I also didn't feel like scheduling an appointment at a shop and waiting). They managed to get oil all over the bottom of the engine area, which burned and stunk for a week. Never again.
 
#16 ·
It should be pretty easy to tell. If the fluid was red or any shade of red like regular transmission fluid, it wasn't HCF-2. HCF-2 looks a lot like motor oil.
 
#20 ·
Or maybe they mistakenly drained the CVT and poured 5 qt of 0W-20 engine oil into it, instead of draining the crankcase and putting the oil in there. Can you tell if they actually changed the engine oil and/or the oil filter?
This is what I'm thinking TBH.
 
#18 ·
I think the OP believes they "checked" the transmission fluid using the "dipstick" and topped it off using an equivalent to DW1. According to their website they will top off up to 2 quarts of transmission, power steering, differential/transfer case and washer fluid as part of there "top off policy".

If you do not know the CVT on the Accord you would think the rubber plug with a handle on the CVT is a dipstick. Plus, only the 4 cylinder has the CVT, the V6 is a standard Auto trans.

Even in the owners manual there is no reference to checking transmission fluid on either the CVT, automatic, or manual transmission, all it says is "Have dealer check the fluid and replace if necessary".

I think he has a good case if the fluid analysis shows automatic transmission fluid instead of CVT fluid.

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#29 ·
Prior to taking the car to jiffy lube (probably 9 months prior) I had changed the CVT oil myself at 132K. I took out 4 quarts of HCF-2, I put 4 quarts of HCF-2 (bought at our local dealer) back in, checked that the level was correct with the weep hole, and hadn't touched it since.

I took the car to Jiffy Lube 45 days ago for an oil change. They pride themselves on telling you that they will top off your fluids (Up to 2 quarts!) for free.

When the Transmission failed on my drive to work, I drained out (and kept) the FIVE quarts that came out of the CVT, which did not look like used HCF-2. It was burnt and very dark. I will take a picture tomorrow and post it for all to see.

Before I drained the HCF-2 I looked down into the fill hole, I noticed that the level looked a little high. After putting 4 new quarts in it, I noticed that you could not see the oil at the bottom of the fill hole

When I got 5 quarts of... whatever... out of the CVT, I surmise that Jiffy Lube, during my last oil change, added... something... to my CVT transmission, therefore creating an overfill condition at the very least, and burned out my CVT transmission.

As previously stated, the local dealer had another car with the exact same conditions come into the shop with a dead CVT in it. It had recently been serviced at the same Jiffy Lube I used.
 
#21 ·
The drain plug on the CVT is a 3/8 square drive and the oil drain plug is a 17mm bolt. You would have to be on drugs to confuse one for the other. These guys doing the work have changed oil many times, and the oil filler cap clearly states engine oil. There are 2 people doing this operation, one on the top and one underneath. The guy underneath did the correct thing. The guy on top made the mistake, he assumed the car was low on transmission fluid and added 2 quarts of ATF (or possibly CVT fluid) to the filler plug on the CVT. Obviously overfilling the transmission.

It is not clear that rubber plug with a handle on it is not a dipstick. Although there is a warning label around the plug saying not to use anything but HCF-2. There has been several cases on this forum where even the Honda dealership has given the wrong fluid or put in the wrong fluid in a CVT.

I will add pictures showing what the filler plug looks like on a CVT.

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#26 ·
There has been several cases on this forum where even the Honda dealership has given the wrong fluid or put in the wrong fluid in a CVT.

I will add pictures showing what the filler plug looks like on a CVT.

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I asked for HCF-2 at the local dealership, and the guy came out with DW-1? I had to explain to him that it was a black bottle with orange label. There are so many different fluids for Honda cars, and even the CVT cars have more than one fluid to choose from. People who don't know exactly what fluid to use in their car, could easily end up with the wrong stuff, and they're supposedly not compatible (you can't use one in place of the other).
 
#24 ·
Sorry this happened to you. This is why I only go to the dealership for oil changes and transmission fluid changes on my Honda with a CVT. It’s not worth the risk trying to save a little money.
 
#30 ·
n8phu,

You called the Jiffy Lube employee's "tech's" I believe. If you were to be able to ask one of these "tech's" how much he is paid per hour, I would bet that it would surprise you how low it is.
As far as finding out the tech's skill levels, outside of asking directly, or sitting in the waiting room listening to the tech's talk to each other, there is probably not much you can find out.
But clearly you know a lot mechanically, so you would be a great judge.
I've never gone to a Jiffy Lube, so I don't know if they post their technician's training certificates on the wall. More likely only the manager's. I'm sure that there are some independent organizations mechanic
certifications that may be partially indicative of the chance of having a good mechanic, so I would be wary of just "Jiffy Lube" corporate training certificates.

My bet would be that none of the tech's besides maybe the manager or assistant manager has a great prior experience record. I would also bet that the workers are either rated by or may get some extra pay based on how many oil changes they do per hour or day. So you probably have some person off the street with not a great educational background being paid peanuts to change oil on your car.

Then, unfortunately I would not be greatly surprised if these guys make significant mistakes frequently.

I purposely drive to an independent shop 15 miles away for work done on my Accord, because I spent a few days researching through google and yelp reviews to find a shop that services mostly japanese branded cars and has excellent non fake reviews. These guys are great, and I'd have to look up how much they charged for my last oil change ( I supplied my own Mobil 1, which they don't stock, and
one of the OEM Honda filters that is rated better than the other), but I bet it is not a terribly high amount. The shop will actually take my own parts, so I can buy stuff on Amazon, etc and get a great deal, and have them install the parts. Now they wouldn't install any junky parts if I gave those to them, but they are happy to just get labor money. Often I wait in the office for my car instead of dropping it off and having to Uber home, and all I see are people from all walks of life coming in for service that are very happy with the work the shop does. Their labor rate is very reasonable but not cheap either.

Unless you have some person in the neighborhood that goes around and breaks into people's cars engine compartments adding fluids randomly, I'm sure your suspicions are correct.
Proving that the shop added the fluid into your CVT reservoir is going to be nearly impossible unless you had a hidden video camera under the hood.

I would try to find out maybe by googling the Jiffy Lube corporate headquarters, someone who you can speak with at a very high managment level. Then explain what happened and see how they react. If you don't get anywhere that way, maybe you can find out if there is some kind of local district manager or the like and speak with that person.
 
#31 ·
UPDATE:

I know I still owe you all a picture of the used CVT fluid, I haven't forgotten, I have been busy.

With what? Well, the used CVT came in at the recycle yard, so I picked it up. It looked in real nice condition. Total price was $550, it has only 84K miles on it. Some of the original nuts and bolts were taped to the side of the case. Electrical connectors looked clean, output seal was in almost new condition.

Took it, 5 quarts of new HCF-2, new transmission filter and had the car towed to the mechanic who is going to do the transplant. Showed him the fluid I pulled out of the CVT, he agrees that it looks like it has ATF mixed into it. He started the car and placed it into gear....you know its bad when a mechanic cringes and says "That just sounds ugly". He pulled the codes and confirmed what I diagnosed, the CVT is toast, probably from a over fill condition. He thinks it has a blown seal somewhere internally.

So the car is at the shop, It will be done next week. I am thinking of holding onto the dead transmission and just eat the core charge ($20) and maybe have someone tear it apart to find the failure point and get a professional report to prove what I think happened.
 
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