Finally started the rebuild tonight. Not really in depth tonight, just removed the end case and the 3rd gear clutch (only one in this part of the transmission). Had to stop after this, I had a disagreement with some of the chrome plating that came off the socket I was using to remove the nuts on the 3 shafts. Don't use chrome plated sockets with an impact while holding the socket in your hand.....
03 v6 auto transmission rebuild
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This transmission had no problems with 3rd gear slipping. The main slipping problem was 2nd gear. And the first time it slipped, I took the car off the road.
The first pic is with the end case removed and the placement of the 3 shafts. You'll see the 3rd gear clutch pack installed. The pic of the inside of the case is showing some clutch material at the top of the picture, which is the bottom of the case. The first clutch (completely worn) is in the middle of the pack. The one that looks good, was the outside disk.
I will post more later as I get more into the transmission. I don't expect to find much more than worn clutches in this transmission, I have never had any luck over the years with automatic transmissions. Seems like anything I've ever tried to keep one working, only caused more damage when it came time to rebuild.
This is my first time rebuilding a Honda transmission, but in years past I've worked on various GM autos. I've never done a full rebuild myself, I never saw a reason to buy a bunch of specialized tools required for many other transmissions. But these Honda trans don't require anything I don't already have. The manual did call for a gear puller to pull the 3rd gear clutch, but I found my gear pullers too small. So I put a screw driver carefully on either side of the basket and carefully walked it off the shaft (this was after working the whole basket with a rubber mallet). It came off easily.
The first pic is with the end case removed and the placement of the 3 shafts. You'll see the 3rd gear clutch pack installed. The pic of the inside of the case is showing some clutch material at the top of the picture, which is the bottom of the case. The first clutch (completely worn) is in the middle of the pack. The one that looks good, was the outside disk.
I will post more later as I get more into the transmission. I don't expect to find much more than worn clutches in this transmission, I have never had any luck over the years with automatic transmissions. Seems like anything I've ever tried to keep one working, only caused more damage when it came time to rebuild.
This is my first time rebuilding a Honda transmission, but in years past I've worked on various GM autos. I've never done a full rebuild myself, I never saw a reason to buy a bunch of specialized tools required for many other transmissions. But these Honda trans don't require anything I don't already have. The manual did call for a gear puller to pull the 3rd gear clutch, but I found my gear pullers too small. So I put a screw driver carefully on either side of the basket and carefully walked it off the shaft (this was after working the whole basket with a rubber mallet). It came off easily.
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how many miles?
170k. It is my wife's car, so I don't know for sure how it has been treated. I only tell her when to do maintenance. I had her take it in to have the transmission flushed every 30k (I know, I didn't read here first).
Jim
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Jim,
Understand that we don't get a lot of transmission photos on this site. So whatever you are taking, if you keep the pictures current, will be looked at by people down the road.
Please, if you have time, post part numbers, detailed pics of the damage (if you can see it) and anything "weird", difficult, or easy to do. Not saying you have to do a step-by-step rebuild thread, but it would be useful for members to see a few things should they want to attempt to tackle a repair, or at least to understand why a shop would want $3,000 to do what you are doing.
I wish I could offer some help but I have NO CLUE what the heck you are doing here. Almost every "bad transmission" thread here ends with "go to the shop". Sad because this site is to help one another wrench our own rides when possible.
Good luck and please keep posting!
Understand that we don't get a lot of transmission photos on this site. So whatever you are taking, if you keep the pictures current, will be looked at by people down the road.
Please, if you have time, post part numbers, detailed pics of the damage (if you can see it) and anything "weird", difficult, or easy to do. Not saying you have to do a step-by-step rebuild thread, but it would be useful for members to see a few things should they want to attempt to tackle a repair, or at least to understand why a shop would want $3,000 to do what you are doing.
I wish I could offer some help but I have NO CLUE what the heck you are doing here. Almost every "bad transmission" thread here ends with "go to the shop". Sad because this site is to help one another wrench our own rides when possible.
Good luck and please keep posting!
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74f100
Thank you for posting pics of the job that you decided to tackle yourself. I also want to provide a link to a transmission rebuilder (Hiram Gutierrez) who posts videos on Youtube, who has rebuilt many Honda transmissions in his day. Take some time a watch a few of his Honda videos where he often goes over the parts you need to rebuild these slosh boxes properly. Aside from the clutch plates, there are valve body end caps with seals that apparently help to reduce pressure losses in used valve bodies. There is a also a new valve that he recommends (comes in a valve body kit), that eliminates pressure losses to the torque converter, which apparently is often the reason why Honda V6 transmissions often fail.
Check out a few of his Honda videos (you can sort by Honda), and let me know if they're of any help.
Keep up the good work, and share your findings with more great pics.
Thanks and good luck!
http://www.youtube.com/user/hiramgutierrez/videos
Thank you for posting pics of the job that you decided to tackle yourself. I also want to provide a link to a transmission rebuilder (Hiram Gutierrez) who posts videos on Youtube, who has rebuilt many Honda transmissions in his day. Take some time a watch a few of his Honda videos where he often goes over the parts you need to rebuild these slosh boxes properly. Aside from the clutch plates, there are valve body end caps with seals that apparently help to reduce pressure losses in used valve bodies. There is a also a new valve that he recommends (comes in a valve body kit), that eliminates pressure losses to the torque converter, which apparently is often the reason why Honda V6 transmissions often fail.
Check out a few of his Honda videos (you can sort by Honda), and let me know if they're of any help.
Keep up the good work, and share your findings with more great pics.
Thanks and good luck!
http://www.youtube.com/user/hiramgutierrez/videos
Yeah, that's what most say. Very few people want to work on an auto transmission. I'm just very careful when working on something that I don't have complete confidence with. And this is one of those cases, so I'm taking my time, observing everything carefully. And taking pics and videos throughout the project.
I spent quite a bit of time researching before I decided to tackle this my self, I'm no expert by any means. Through that research, I've found quite a bit of information on cooling problems prevalent with all Honda transmissions. There are a couple of places that list upgrades to correct these issues. The first, use a kit with Raybestos clutches and steels (the part shown in the second disk picture).
Master rebuild kit: RAYBESTOS POWERTRAIN
PN: 30006
Valve body upgrade kit: SUPERIOR / FAIRBANKS
PN: STL-H05-388
Very detailed information on refurbing and upgrading the valve bodies. Not taking care of the valve body leads to many of the horror stories of shifting issues and premature wear after rebuild.
Lastly, Torque converter.
Torque converter, Honda (121 / 122 Tooth Ring Gear)
Part #: TC-HO79
These parts are for the BAYA and MAYA series of transmissions used in a few different v6 transmissions.
These three groups ran a little under $800, but I haven't shipped my old torque converter back yet. There is an $80 core. So once I ship that back, the cost of the transmission itself should be around $750.
His videos were my inspiration to tackle this. The videos he has out are somewhat dated, there are kits now available that upgrade and correct the problems mentioned in the BAYA video. See the kit posted above.
Removed the gears from outside of the main case today. I had to get a 34 mm socket (didn't have one). The thing to remember with these nuts, the one on the smaller gear is normal thread. The other 2 34 mm nuts are reverse thread (turning to the right loosens).
I'll have to wait until tomorrow to remove the park gear and the main case. I don't have small enough and long enough bolts to attach the gear puller, so I'll pick up a couple of them tomorrow and open the main case.
I'll have to wait until tomorrow to remove the park gear and the main case. I don't have small enough and long enough bolts to attach the gear puller, so I'll pick up a couple of them tomorrow and open the main case.
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13,101 Posts
Jim, your transmission re-build thread here has become a sticky! Congrats!
Pressure is on....
aranoid:
Pressure is on....
aranoid:
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4,637 Posts
Great thread Jim! I'll look forward to reading the updates. Are you far from Alexandria? That's where my brother lives.
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1,417 Posts
I gotta say, I commend you for tackling this. I just finished the transmission segment in my automotive tech school and I knew before going in that there's nothing but witchcraft inside the case of an automatic transmission. After getting my hands into a few, it solidified my thinking. Also, the fact that you're tackling this in your home garage on your wife's vehicle is ballsy. Kudos sir.
crackerteg, the older autos were witchcraft. They were completely hydraulically controlled, these are only hydraulically enabled (I made it up, but that's how I understand them). A honda transmission uses actual gears for each drive and reverse gear. They are activated by hydraulic pressure to a clutch pack driving each gear. The next few posts are tonight after removing the main housing. This is where all the gears and clutches reside, plus the all important feed lines. Not getting these feed lines back in correctly will mean the transmission's valve body and shift solenoids will not place pressure in the correct place at the correct time.
After getting this thing apart, my confidence has risen dramatically. It is much simpler than the old TH350 where everything is mounted on one shaft.
On to inside pictures, sorry for some of the blurry ones in this set. My grandson was the light holder, and he can't hold a light without asking a million questions while I'm trying to focus.
After getting this thing apart, my confidence has risen dramatically. It is much simpler than the old TH350 where everything is mounted on one shaft.
On to inside pictures, sorry for some of the blurry ones in this set. My grandson was the light holder, and he can't hold a light without asking a million questions while I'm trying to focus.
These next three are simply showing where the feed lines come through the main case to the end case. I believe they all should have o-rings, but I'll have to confirm this with the manual when I put it back together (all o-rings are included in the rebuild kit).
From the last set, I've removed the park gear and the cooling lines(one end is the blue bolt in the second pic). The shifter shaft needs to be set to drive to fit through the main case, and the actuator removed (couldn't think of anything else to call it).
From the last set, I've removed the park gear and the cooling lines(one end is the blue bolt in the second pic). The shifter shaft needs to be set to drive to fit through the main case, and the actuator removed (couldn't think of anything else to call it).
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Inside the case, again, I'm paying attention to where all the feel lines attach and where they sit.
You can see the other 4 clutch packs in this set. 4th and 5th gear are on one shaft. 1st and 2nd on the other (I don't remember which is which). Reverse uses 1st gear, there's just a selector lever to reverse the output.
You can see the other 4 clutch packs in this set. 4th and 5th gear are on one shaft. 1st and 2nd on the other (I don't remember which is which). Reverse uses 1st gear, there's just a selector lever to reverse the output.
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Pic showing reverse and second gear. From what I've read, there was supposedly a problem with cooling on these transmissions that could lead to second gear over heating and possibly breaking. I don't know the validity of this claim, but just for the sake of it, here is a shot of second gear with no signs of abnormal wear or discoloration.
Second gear is on top, reverse is on the bottom.
Second gear is on top, reverse is on the bottom.
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This is just showing the one shaft that had a bearing riding on top of it. This is just mainly a memory shot for me. When I see something "odd" I want to know where it goes. Throughout these transmissions, there are various small needle bearing assemblies. Not having them in the correct place will obviously cause damage to the shafts and cases, but also throws off the positioning of each of the shafts.
I'm usually overly cautious with marking things (why I keep a marker on the bench during dis assembly). If you mark things before you take them apart, it makes alignments much easier.
I'm usually overly cautious with marking things (why I keep a marker on the bench during dis assembly). If you mark things before you take them apart, it makes alignments much easier.
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Tomorrow I plan on just removing each of the shafts and laying them aside. The most detailed part of this rebuild will be the upgrades in the valve bodies. And because I don't really know what I'm doing, I will be reading the directions carefully while taking measurements. The upgrade kit I mentioned earlier has very detailed directions, with measurements for every part of the valve body. Plus some modifications to some of the passageways and ball bearing placement. Missing anything in there will cause either the wrong pressures to be applied in the wrong spot. Or cause a cooling circuit to not function......and this spells destruction.
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