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Ehh, people saying how well the CX-5 drives haven't driven a RDX with SH-AWD

It's less practical and less efficient than the Honda, which for 95% of buyers, is WAY more important than "driving feel". The CR-V now has a great hybrid option.... Unlike Mazda.

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I owned a 2016 CR-V Touring and borrowed a 2017 CR-V AWD for a few weeks. I also owned a 2019 RD and I've driven dozens of different press vehicles over the last few years. The RDX does feel better when driven near or at the limit, but the CX-5 is slightly faster in every metric and more fuel-efficient than the RDX. The CX-5 also has an insignificantly larger cargo volume then the RDX.

According to Car and Driver instrumented testing of a 2019 CX-5 Signature and 2019 RDX A-Spec:

0-60 MPH: 6.2 vs. 6.6 seconds
0-100 MPH: 16.7 vs. 18.1 seconds
Top speed (governer limited): 130 vs. 113 MPH
5-60 MPH: 6.7 vs. 7.0 seconds
30-50 MPH: 3.5 vs. 3.9 seconds
50-70 MPH: 4.6 vs. 5.2 seconds
1/4-mile: 14.8 @ 95 MPH vs. 15.2 @ 93 MPH
70-0: 173 vs. 177 feet

The CR-V Hybrid is indeed a great option if fuel efficiency is a primary concern.
 

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Between cars.com and autotrader.com, there are 3 2020 2.0T 6MT left in US for sale. Is this because of production shut down? Or are the rumors of manual gearbox not returning for 2021 MMC turning out to be true?
 

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Between cars.com and autotrader.com, there are 3 2020 2.0T 6MT left in US for sale. Is this because of production shut down? Or are the rumors of manual gearbox not returning for 2021 MMC turning out to be true?
No Hondas whatsoever were produced for over two months and production still isn't back to normal levels for various reasons including parts shortages from suppliers. Demand didn't fall quite as low and has recovered more quickly than expected. This adds up to a seller's market.

To ensure you have enough product for the most number of people, it's important for automakers to manufacture and dealers to order only the most popular trim levels. For Honda, this may mean producing as many high-demand Accord LX, EX, and Sport 1.5 CVT models as possible while delaying lower-demand models like the 2.0T and lowest-demand models like the 6MT.
 

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Between cars.com and autotrader.com, there are 3 2020 2.0T 6MT left in US for sale. Is this because of production shut down? Or are the rumors of manual gearbox not returning for 2021 MMC turning out to be true?
I saw the same thing. Two of those 2.0t Sport Manuals are 2019's. I guess I'll hold on to mine, it would seem that it will be a collectors item. This shortage predates the virus. I remember seeing only 12 for sale nationwide back in February.

BTW, according to the dealer I got mine from, not only can customers not order cars like other manufacturers allow you to do, but they don't even have any say over what cars they get from Honda. They are just sent vehicles based upon what Honda believes will do well in their region. They went six months without having a 2.0t Sport 6MT delivered. They called when they got a white one in. I wanted a blue one, but in 18 months, one had never been delivered to any Honda dealer in Portland. So I bought the white one, as it was my second choice of color. A month later, they got a blue one, and it was purchased within a week. That was in May 2019, and they haven't gotten one since.
 

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I saw the same thing. Two of those 2.0t Sport Manuals are 2019's. I guess I'll hold on to mine, it would seem that it will be a collectors item. This shortage predates the virus. I remember seeing only 12 for sale nationwide back in February.

BTW, according to the dealer I got mine from, not only can customers not order cars like other manufacturers allow you to do, but they don't even have any say over what cars they get from Honda. They are just sent vehicles based upon what Honda believes will do well in their region. They went six months without having a 2.0t Sport 6MT delivered. They called when they got a white one in. I wanted a blue one, but in 18 months, one had never been delivered to any Honda dealer in Portland. So I bought the white one, as it was my second choice of color. A month later, they got a blue one, and it was purchased within a week. That was in May 2019, and they haven't gotten one since.
That's correct - you cannot "special order" a Honda unlike most other brands. Any dealer that tells you that you can is just taking your money and hoping that what you ordered shows up before you give up. :) Honda dealers use what is called the APEX (Allocation Preferencing and Exchange) system to put in requests (not orders) for a specific color and trim combination. The dealer will receive the number of vehicles they were allocated, but they may not receive the exact combinations they request.

Honda produces few Accords with manuals because the demand is low. It only seems like Honda isn't producing enough manuals to the incredibly small percentage of shoppers who are actually looking for one. The remaining 98% of the market isn't shopping for a manual. In 2018, the take-rate for manuals was down to 2% with availability having fallen from 47% of models in 2006 to 20%. As of 2020, even the Corvette no longer offers a manual transmission. Automatics have been faster and more efficient than manuals for some time now - including in the Accord. It's true that manuals are more engaging and can be more fun to drive, but most buyers are looking for convenience. Manual transmissions are an annoyance to automakers because they prevent them from installing their full complement of safety and convenience features that are becoming standard (i.e., remote start and low-speed follow). I predict the Mazda MX-5 Miata will be one of the last models to still offer a manual transmission (as long as it exists) since about half of buyers still choose the manual. The Miata has been in continuous production for over 30 years, but it's a loss-leader for Mazda - it's an impractical, niche-market vehicle that's expensive since it has a lot of unique components that can't be shared with any other Mazda (which is one reason there's a Fiat version called the 124 Spider).

BTW - what's behind your "@MazdaRehab" user name? :)
 

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That's correct - you cannot "special order" a Honda unlike most other brands. Any dealer that tells you that you can is just taking your money and hoping that what you ordered shows up before you give up. :) Honda dealer use what is called the APEX (Allocation Preferencing and Exchange) system to put in requests (not orders) for a specific color and trim combination. The dealer will receive the number of vehicles they were allocated, but they may not receive the exact combinations they request.

Honda produces few Accords with manuals because the demand is low. It only seems like Honda isn't producing enough manuals to the incredibly small percentage of shoppers who are actually looking for one. The remaining 98% of the market isn't shopping for a manual. In 2018, the take-rate for manuals was down to 2% with availability having fallen from 47% of models in 2006 to 20%. As of 2020, even the Corvette no longer offers a manual transmission. Automatics have been faster and more efficient than manuals for some time now - including in the Accord. It's true that manuals are more engaging and can be more fun to drive, but most buyers are looking for convenience. Manual transmissions are an annoyance to automakers because they prevent them from installing their full complement of safety and convenience features that are becoming standard (i.e., remote start and low-speed follow). I predict the Mazda MX-5 Miata will be one of the last models to still offer a manual transmission (as long as it exists) since about half of buyers still choose the manual. The Miata has been in continuous production for over 30 years, but it's a loss-leader for Mazda - it's an impractical, niche-market vehicle that's expensive since it has a lot of unique components that can't be shared with any other Mazda (which is one reason there's a Fiat version called the 124 Spider).

BTW - what's behind your "@MazdaRehab" user name? :)
Huh, didn't know that, but I suppose for a family car it makes sense. It's not like a Corvette or Camaro where it can feel special to someone.

As for manual trans on the Accord, I haven't tried one for the 10th Gen Accord, but the 10th Gen Civic ones are pretty mediocre compared to a Golf or an Elantra. Honda's manual transmission doesn't really get that much attention in terms of engineering IMO, but keep in mind that Accord is the only vehicle in it's segment that comes with a manual trans option, so it could be attractive to buyers looking for that combination.

If you want to bet who will hold onto the manual trans last, I am betting my money on Porsche, not Mazda. Mazda is too broke to really do much and they have to cater to a wider audience. Meanwhile, Porsche's large price premium means they have the money to do whatever they want. Fans got mad at them for not having a manual GT3 and guess what? Porsche made one. They listen to the enthusiasts.

Sent from GM1917, technology or something like that.
 

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It's interesting because on one hand, the automotive press loves reviewing the Sport 2.0 and saying how great it is, but then customers can barely find them. When I was looking last year, most dealers had at least one available and there were hundreds available nationwide. Now they're down to two. It would seem that something has changed.

As for my review of my own 2019 Sport 2.0 manual, I think it is fantastic. All the safety stuff works just fine on it. There are literally no features that it lack compared to the automatic version. Adaptive cruise works just fine, although it obviously can't do stop and go, and as you mentioned, remote start is a no go.
 

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It's interesting because on one hand, the automotive press loves reviewing the Sport 2.0 and saying how great it is, but then customers can barely find them. When I was looking last year, most dealers had at least one available and there were hundreds available nationwide. Now they're down to two. It would seem that something has changed.
The automotive press favors manuals because they tend to be driving enthusiasts. They're pushing vehicles to their limits and scrutinizing them in a way that the typical buyer will not. They cost the automakers money as a form of advertising. Actual buyers prefer automatics and make the automakers money. If you're an automaker, you want to make vehicles for the people that buy them - not borrow them for a week, abuse them, return them, and write a review of them. :)

As for my review of my own 2019 Sport 2.0 manual, I think it is fantastic. All the safety stuff works just fine on it. There are literally no features that it lack compared to the automatic version. Adaptive cruise works just fine, although it obviously can't do stop and go, and as you mentioned, remote start is a no go.
Also, no sport mode, no boost gauge, the parking brake must be set before the engine will start, and the cupholders are inconveniently buried down inside the center console where your arm is constantly hovering over them. :)
 

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June 2020

Honda Accord = down 29.62% to 15,409 units vs 21,893 units in June 2019

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-corporate/releases/release-59cabbe9a5665e221f126618d0000823-american-honda-sales-continue-recovery-despite-inventory-issues-and-covid-19-business-challenges

American Honda Sales Continue Recovery, Despite Inventory Issues and COVID-19 Business Challenges

July 1, 2020

Steady sales reflect good demand while variable supplies limit potential

“We’ve returned to business with April to June sales stronger than we could have expected, with the pace of recovery accelerating in the second half of the quarter,” said Dave Gardner, executive vice president of Auto Sales at American Honda Motor Co., Inc. “We’re running a bit lean on inventory, but our dealers have been remarkably nimble in adapting to one of the greatest challenges our industry has ever seen and our production team is working extra days this week to supply our customers. Now, we anxiously anticipate the arrival of the all-new Acura TLX to bring some real excitement to Acura showrooms.”

American Honda COVID-19 Support: The Honda and Acura brands are offering select and eligible first responders and healthcare professionals a $1,000 discount on new vehicles financed or leased through Honda Financial Services or Acura Financial Services through July 6.


Honda Sales Highlights

June sales continued the recovery that started in May, though supply issues limited sales potential on several fronts. Still, truck sales came within 8.5% of June 2019.
  • Pilot sales topped June 2019, rising 4.7% on sales of 12,128 units.
  • CR-V posted a solid performance with sales of 26,488 vehicles.
  • Civic continues to lead the industry in passenger car retail sales in 2020, strengthened by sales of 23,260 units in June.
Model Notes

Honda ranks #1 in America with the highest fleet average fuel economy and lowest CO2 emissions of any full-line automaker.


Acura Sales Highlights

Acura sales returned to a normal pace in June, virtually equaling the previous June sales with trucks leading the way.
  • Acura truck sales climbed a total of 4.8% in June.
  • RDX had its strongest sales month since December, gaining 11.1% over June 2019 on sales of 5,410 units.
  • MDX deliveries reached 3,977 for the month, also its best sales result since December
Model Notes

The all-new 2021 Acura TLX arrives early this fall as the brand’s quickest, best-handling and most well-appointed sedan in the brand's 35-year history. The new model debuted digitally on May 28th and was received enthusiastically by dealers and prospective customers.

522010


522011
 

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No Hondas whatsoever were produced for over two months and production still isn't back to normal levels for various reasons including parts shortages from suppliers. Demand didn't fall quite as low and has recovered more quickly than expected. This adds up to a seller's market.

To ensure you have enough product for the most number of people, it's important for automakers to manufacture and dealers to order only the most popular trim levels. For Honda, this may mean producing as many high-demand Accord LX, EX, and Sport 1.5 CVT models as possible while delaying lower-demand models like the 2.0T and lowest-demand models like the 6MT.
I saw the same thing. Two of those 2.0t Sport Manuals are 2019's. I guess I'll hold on to mine, it would seem that it will be a collectors item. This shortage predates the virus. I remember seeing only 12 for sale nationwide back in February.

BTW, according to the dealer I got mine from, not only can customers not order cars like other manufacturers allow you to do, but they don't even have any say over what cars they get from Honda. They are just sent vehicles based upon what Honda believes will do well in their region. They went six months without having a 2.0t Sport 6MT delivered. They called when they got a white one in. I wanted a blue one, but in 18 months, one had never been delivered to any Honda dealer in Portland. So I bought the white one, as it was my second choice of color. A month later, they got a blue one, and it was purchased within a week. That was in May 2019, and they haven't gotten one since.
Huh, didn't know that, but I suppose for a family car it makes sense. It's not like a Corvette or Camaro where it can feel special to someone.

As for manual trans on the Accord, I haven't tried one for the 10th Gen Accord, but the 10th Gen Civic ones are pretty mediocre compared to a Golf or an Elantra. Honda's manual transmission doesn't really get that much attention in terms of engineering IMO, but keep in mind that Accord is the only vehicle in it's segment that comes with a manual trans option, so it could be attractive to buyers looking for that combination.

If you want to bet who will hold onto the manual trans last, I am betting my money on Porsche, not Mazda. Mazda is too broke to really do much and they have to cater to a wider audience. Meanwhile, Porsche's large price premium means they have the money to do whatever they want. Fans got mad at them for not having a manual GT3 and guess what? Porsche made one. They listen to the enthusiasts.

Sent from GM1917, technology or something like that.
I went back and did some more searching...There are currently 32,498 brand new 2020 Honda Accords for sale in US. This is brand new, 2020 only. It doesn't include new 2019 leftovers that may have been dealer loaners or demos or such, nor does it include any CPOs. Out of those 32,498, 1 is 2.0T 6MT. 1...out of 32,498. Math isn't my strong suit so I can't calculate it but if I had to guess, it would be something like 0.000001%. Over 32K Accords speaks pretty good about supply. But down to just one single vehicle in 2.0T 6MT configuration also speaks volumes.
 

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Out of those 32,498, 1 is 2.0T 6MT. 1...out of 32,498. Math isn't my strong suit so I can't calculate it but if I had to guess, it would be something like 0.000001%.
It's basic math

1 ÷ 32,498 = 0.000030771124377

To get percentage, multiply 0.000030771124377 by 100

0.003077112437688%
 

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Between cars.com and autotrader.com, there are 3 2020 2.0T 6MT left in US for sale. Is this because of production shut down? Or are the rumors of manual gearbox not returning for 2021 MMC turning out to be true?
I find that CarGurus.com tends to have the most accurate inventory numbers.

As of this post, they show 19,668 new Accords for sale nationwide - 24 or (0.12%) of which are 1.5T manuals. There are no 2.0T manuals listed.
 

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I find that CarGurus.com tends to have the most accurate inventory numbers.

As of this post, they show 19,668 new Accords for sale nationwide - 24 or just over 0.001% of which are 1.5T manuals. There are no 2.0T manuals listed.
Isn't that something...I believe Honda held 10th Gen event mid-July 2017. Maybe the MMC info will come out in few weeks and sales will start in the Fall. That seems to be their schedule for most part across the brand. I'm thinking the 2.0T 6MT might not survive the MMC and will leave only 1.5T 6MT as an option. That would make sense considering Accord Sport 6MT in the 9th Gen was only available with the 2.4L engine option which was replaced by the 1.5T in terms of where it sits in the lineup. Or...Honda might surprise us and give us a limited edition Accord Type R 2.0T 6MT with 300+ hp. MotorTrend had an article with something like that: https://www.motortrend.com/news/honda-accord-type-r-preview-rendering/
 

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Or...Honda might surprise us and give us a limited edition Accord Type R 2.0T 6MT with 300+ hp.
:ROFLMAO: . . . . . . . . . . . . . :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: . . . .:ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: . . . . . . . . . . . . . :ROFLMAO:. . . . . . .:ROFLMAO: . . . .:ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: . . . . . . . . . . . . . :ROFLMAO:. . . . . . .:ROFLMAO: . . . .:ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: . . . . . . . . . . . . . :ROFLMAO:. . . . . . .:ROFLMAO: . . . .:ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: . . . . . . . . . . . . . :ROFLMAO:. . . . . . .:ROFLMAO: . . . .:ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: . . . .:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: . . . .:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

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Regarding the Accord Type R, I would have to wonder what kind of target market are we talking about here.

Even an equivalent to a Camry TRD is a lot to ask for IMO.

Sent from GM1917, technology or something like that.
 

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Regarding the Accord Type R, I would have to wonder what kind of target market are we talking about here.

Even an equivalent to a Camry TRD is a lot to ask for IMO.

Sent from GM1917, technology or something like that.
Very unlikely but not impossible. Like you said, if Toyota can make a limited run of 6000 units of Camry TRD, there's no reason why Honda can't do something similar. Will they...that's another thing.
 

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As for manual trans on the Accord, I haven't tried one for the 10th Gen Accord, but the 10th Gen Civic ones are pretty mediocre compared to a Golf or an Elantra. Honda's manual transmission doesn't really get that much attention in terms of engineering IMO, but keep in mind that Accord is the only vehicle in it's segment that comes with a manual trans option, so it could be attractive to buyers looking for that combination.
I came from a VW manual (CC). The Honda one is at least as good. With the affordable short shift linkage upgrades, it's fantastic. And not only is the Accord the only one left in its segment with a manual option, but they give it to you with the more powerful engine, if you're willing to pony up.

Also, no sport mode, no boost gauge, the parking brake must be set before the engine will start, and the cupholders are inconveniently buried down inside the center console where your arm is constantly hovering over them. :)
You don't need sport mode when you're shifting yourself! You are your own sport mode. My last car (VW) also had an electric parking brake, and it also needed to be engaged for it to start. Makes sense, although it sucks when you stall at a light (happens to me like once a year or so.) The cupholder is just evidence of Honda's brilliance. They went through the trouble of designing a different cupholder for manuals because the ones in the autos are much more shallow and cups would interfere with shifting. Most automakers don't care about this but Honda made the manuals much deeper so your arm hovers over the cups when you're shifting instead of your arm and the cups occupying the same space.

BTW - what's behind your "@MazdaRehab" user name? :)
I drove exclusively Mazda's from 1993 to 2014. I bought a VW at that time, and joined VW Vortex, with MazdaRehab as my name, as I was rehabbing from a Mazda addiction. I'm definitely over Mazda's now, but I like the name.
 

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You don't need sport mode when you're shifting yourself! You are your own sport mode.
Sport mode in the Accord also increases throttle sensitivity, firms up the steering, enhances the Agile Handling Assist function, and changes the engine sound - it doesn't just affect the transmission. In the Touring model, it also firms up the dampers

Most automakers don't care about this but Honda made the manuals much deeper so your arm hovers over the cups when you're shifting instead of your arm and the cups occupying the same space.
I don't like arms hovering over containers - particularly open ones - to reduce hair, lint, dirt, and skin cells from falling into them.

I drove exclusively Mazda's from 1993 to 2014. I bought a VW at that time, and joined VW Vortex, with MazdaRehab as my name, as I was rehabbing from a Mazda addiction. I'm definitely over Mazda's now, but I like the name.
Ah. I bought 11 new Hondas from 2006 and 2018. Too many problems with recent ones. I now have two Mazdas in my garage (MX-5 and CX-5) that have been more problem-free than any of the Hondas I've owned so far. :(
 

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I find that CarGurus.com tends to have the most accurate inventory numbers.

As of this post, they show 19,668 new Accords for sale nationwide - 24 or just over 0.001% of which are 1.5T manuals. There are no 2.0T manuals listed.
Methinks you have the decimal point in the wrong place!

24/19668 = 0.0012 or 0.12%. 🧐
 
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