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...can’t see this as a positive for Honda. An argument can be made that 2018 supply is still ramping up but that is not a complete explanation. Your thoughts?
 

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My guess is this is people going to SUVs and waiting on the 2.0. I know a couple folks who went to the Camry because they wanted a V6 and not play with the turbo engines.
 

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...can’t see this as a positive for Honda. An argument can be made that 2018 supply is still ramping up but that is not a complete explanation. Your thoughts?
LOL, pretty much every sedan sale number is down. People want the utility of a CR-V (sales and growth are high), Rav4, Highlander, CX-5, Pilot, etc....
 

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Even better deals to be had if that is the case. Would explain why those of us that waited for the 2.0T are able to get them at invoice or less right now even though they have only been on the lots for less than 3 weeks. Deals will be even greater for those that hold out a little longer.
 

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Runnin' in the 90s
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Where did you get that number?

American Honda Sets 3rd Straight Annual Sales Record with Best-Ever December

TORRANCE, Calif., Jan. 3, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- American Honda Motor Co., Inc. (AHM) today reported its third consecutive all-time annual sales record on sales of 1,641,429 Honda and Acura vehicles in 2017, an increase of 0.2 percent over its previous best set in 2016. AHM also set new annual and monthly sales records for light trucks, recording 840,450 sales in 2017 for a 3.3 percent gain, and 86,740 sales in December, rising 1.4 percent. The Honda Division also reported record annual sales, gaining 0.7 percent on total vehicle sales of 1,486,827 while Honda trucks set new December and annual records, rising 3.4 percent on December sales of 75,856 and 4.1 percent on 2017 sales of 734,269. Total Acura Division sales declined 12.2 percent in December on sales of 15,062, and 4.2 percent in 2017 on total vehicle sales of 154,602.

American Honda Vehicle Sales for December 2017
Month-to-Date
December 2017|December 2016|DSR** % Change|MoM % Change
22,115|33,873|-32.2%|-34.7%

Year-to-Date
December 2017|December 2016|DSR** % Change|YoY % Change
322,655|345,225|-6.2%|-6.5%
If I read that right, sales were down -32.2% in the month of December 2017, compared to -34.7% in December 2016. Not Year over Year (YoY). Those are two different numbers. I'm guessing it's because it's a new generation and people are hesitant to buy the first model year of a new generation.

EDIT: I didn't read it right. I've changed the formatting to actually show what the columns on the website show. They still don't seem to be down that much compared to 2016... The daily selling rate (DSR) was -32.2% for the month of December.

Here are the other figures:
CIVIC 31,406|31,482|3.6%|-0.2%|377,286|366,927|3.2%|2.8%
CLARITY 1,425|8|18,397.6%|17,712.5%|2,455|8|30,687.8%|30,587.5%
CR-Z 19|160|-87.7%|-88.1%|705|2,338|-69.7%|-69.8%
FIT 3,434|4,425|-19.4%|-22.4%|49,454|56,630|-12.4%|-12.7%
INSIGHT 0|1|-100.0%|-100.0%|3|67|-95.5%|-95.5%
CROSSTOUR 0|0|0.0%|0.0%|5|726|-99.3%|-99.3%
CR-V 36,983|37,778|1.7%|-2.1%|377,895|357,335|6.1%|5.8%
HR-V 7,543|9,034|-13.3%|-16.5%|94,034|82,041|15.0%|14.6%
ODYSSEY 9,874|10,411|-1.5%|-5.2%|100,307|120,846|-16.7%|-17.0%
PILOT 18,602|12,072|60.0%|54.1%|127,279|120,772|5.7%|5.4%
RIDGELINE 2,854|4,085|-27.4%|-30.1%|34,749|23,667|47.3%|46.8%
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I said “YoY in December,” meaning, comparing the two Decembers sales were down 32.2%. The total YoY for all months (aka YTD) is also down.
 

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Living in Chicago with a longish commute, I've hardly seen any new Camry's on the road either considering they've been out for much longer. It's just a tough time to sell this type of car. 'Mid-size' sedan is in a no man's land.

Cars have become so big that Civic's are as big as Accord's used to be while offering a lower price point, and everyone is cross shopping both against the CR-V. The customer base left wanting an Accord or Camry is pretty narrow.
 

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So far you haven't said anything that you can back up with credible sources. Having fun trolling?
The source I referenced is Honda’s own press release announcing its December 2017 sales numbers. Take a look I have provided a link to it above. But here is another one via Temple of VTEC.

http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1343743
 

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Living in Chicago with a longish commute, I've hardly seen any new Camry's on the road either considering they've been out for much longer. It's just a tough time to sell this type of car. 'Mid-size' sedan is in a no man's land.

Cars have become so big that Civic's are as big as Accord's used to be while offering a lower price point, and everyone is cross shopping both against the CR-V. The customer base left wanting an Accord or Camry is pretty narrow.
Probably, that's why when I bought my car, I went with the civic...gave me everything i wanted for under $20k....heated seats, lanewatch, remote start, push button start, android auto, and so on...in the accord, I would have been up to the 2016 EX model, pushing a lot more....now I will say I sat in a 2018 accord sport and thought, wow, this is nice! :laugh
 

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It's not about turbos because the CRV sells well. It's too early in the game to compare Accord sales for the month of December 17 to December 2016 considering that the full lineup of Accords isn't available. When looking at year to date numbers of the Accord, CRV and Civic they aren't too far off to 2016 with the biggest variance being around 6 percent. Also worth noting is that there have been redesigned models introduced in past 24 months so the data might be slightly skewed by bargain selling on model closeouts and consumers staying away from first year introductions and higher prices. Sedans are trending down which is no surprise so if you are in the market for a sedan, advantage consumer. CRV is killing it right now for Honda but the new Equinox is out which is a great seller for Chevy and whenever a new RAV 4 arrives it should provide some decent competition for the CRV. Amazing how irrelevant Acura is, they only sell 50k MDX's and 50k RDX's. I do see some Camrys on the road now but only have seen one Accord and after looking at it I can see why (ugly):frown.
 

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I think sales numbers can take a hit in the last months of the old model as the new models are phased in. People don't want to buy the old model and if enough new models aren't available, sales will suffer.
 

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I remember hearing that something like 85% of sales would be 1.5T and those have been out for 3 months. The 2.0 hasn't been out long but they are on the lots. Are you guys saying the hybrid is going to make up the 32% gap? I guess January is going to be a big push month so who knows.

The Camry sold more than 40,000 units in December, they went cray-cray, and I bet the financing deals that you don't get at the Honda dealership had a lot to do with it.
 

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I remember hearing that something like 85% of sales would be 1.5T and those have been out for 3 months. The 2.0 hasn't been out long but they are on the lots. Are you guys saying the hybrid is going to make up the 32% gap? I guess January is going to be a big push month so who knows.

The Camry sold more than 40,000 units in December, they went cray-cray, and I bet the financing deals that you don't get at the Honda dealership had a lot to do with it.
True, and Honda isn't offering anything on the Accord right now in my area. No lease offers, no financing specials. If Honda was concerned at all about this 32% dip, I would think they would offer something to bring people in. Doesn't seem to me they are too worried at the moment. Soon enough I'm sure those letters will be going out to G9 leasees offering early turn-ins for the new G10
 

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These threads are funny...."Honda should be worried" lol "The Accord was going to save Honda, OMG"...

Slow sales day at Toyota to post this drama, huh?
 
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