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Belts are no doubt much cheaper implement. Not to mention Honda did not change there V6 block design since it was intro. in 1992. There are minor changes as time went by but pretty much the same block. All their V6 blocks are belt driven. Belts are quieter but is like a ticking time bomb in the engine. With the current 8th gen accords we just got new heads bolted onto a true and tried block. It looks like it was a cost move. Im not worry at all because I use to have a integra gsr before it was totaled. The b18c1 DOHC belt driven engine took every beating. Spirted driving, autox and hpde events. I have never snapped a timing belt no matter how hard i drove.
You are way off base with your initial statement. The first V6 honda built was the C-series engine, which had a Vee angle of 90*. This is the V6 design used in the NSX (which had a DOHC variant) as well as in the 5th gen Accords and earlier Legend (now the TL). All current Honda V6s from 1998 on (with the exception of the RL until 2006) are J-series V6s, which use a 60* bank angle, resulting in a more compact engine.
 

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I paid $500 to change the timing belt on my 2000 Accord V6 in late 2006 after 6 1/2 years/102k miles. Not a bad price to have the engine running as good as new again.

I might not even own the car the next time the timing belt needs to be changed, but having to pay another $500-$1000 in 2013 is not really a big deal to me.:)
 

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Your first sentence is just the opposite: most are chain-driven. Just tell me which current V6 cars use a timing belt other than Honda/Acuras; I challenge you. You can scratch BMW, Toyota, and Nissan right off the bat; they make none. I'm almost sure Ford, GM, and Mazda (Ford) have none as well. My only doubt is Chrysler and Mitsubishi, but even if both did, it hardly justifies 'most'.

Your second sentence could be mostly right (BMW has never made a V6), but that's in the past, and we're talking about the present. Plus it's an obvious indication that's what consumers are demanding (less maintenance and higher reliability - a belt snaps much easier than a chain).

The issue is simple: timing belt engines are cheaper to produce, but require more maintenance. And it's a fact. I has NOTHING to do with how good an engine is. Another fact is Honda's V6 is one of the best engines on the market. If it had DOHC, chain-driven cams and hydraulic valve lash adjusters, it'd be even better, but there's no perfect car. Since I'll sell my Coupe before the engine needs to be opened, I'm much happier with double-wishbone front suspension and a better interior than the competition than an even better engine. It's a matter of choosing the car with the least cons... or most pros. All have plenty of both; it's just a matter of prioritizing them, and everybody has a different way of doing it.

As a side comment, Toyota still makes V8 engines with timing belts (not sure about the new 4.6 though), but not their V6s; go figure. Again, great engines made cheaper by the use of belts. Only reason why manufacturers still put them on their engines is because almost all buyers don't know anything about engine design. In fact, most salesmen don't know either; just ask them for fun. Take care.
JC
looks like I missed this post. I didn't mean to imply all new V6 engines use timing belts but rather most all company's used belts on there DOHC engines, whether it be V6,V8, L4's .

The point of timing chain vers timing belt is more than just these 2 parts. both have there pluses an minuses.
The belt has earlier to change, generally quiet running and less harmonics , yes it needs checking for wear and replacement.
The chain system is not without issues, more noise (after guides wear), more harmonics and even possible jumped tooth if auto-adjuster wears.
I say the more to chains now on V motors is more to do with saying car needs no maintenance till 100k than anything else.
With modern DOHC motors with there lightweight 4 value/spring config plus roller rockers there is a lot less stress to turning the cams as in old days.
 

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Good points Ed. The main detractor from belts in my case is the TIME factor, since my car would probably have just 25K miles in 5 years, and 35K in 7. It gets pretty hot in summer here, so I'd fall in-between, probably 6 years. My question is if the MM takes time into consideration, and how important it is to follow it.

Everything wears in an engine, but I pretty much consider a timing chain to last the normal useful life of an engine, or 150K miles. Yes, some last longer, and you have to change chain, guides, etc. without an overhaul, but that's 2-1/2 times more (considering 'severe' duty, which is cheap insurance to me) than the chain. Furthermore, an extremely small number of people keep their cars that long (original owners, of course). And noise is just not a factor. My V6 is definitely louder than BMW's I6.

Finally, as I said before, Honda's V6 is so good otherwise that I voted yes with my checkbook, but just like the 4 bangers, they'll have to switch to chain (by customer demand) sooner or later. Take care.
JC
 

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Good points Ed. The main detractor from belts in my case is the TIME factor, since my car would probably have just 25K miles in 5 years, and 35K in 7. It gets pretty hot in summer here, so I'd fall in-between, probably 6 years. My question is if the MM takes time into consideration, and how important it is to follow it.

Everything wears in an engine, but I pretty much consider a timing chain to last the normal useful life of an engine, or 150K miles. Yes, some last longer, and you have to change chain, guides, etc. without an overhaul, but that's 2-1/2 times more (considering 'severe' duty, which is cheap insurance to me) than the chain. Furthermore, an extremely small number of people keep their cars that long (original owners, of course). And noise is just not a factor. My V6 is definitely louder than BMW's I6.

Finally, as I said before, Honda's V6 is so good otherwise that I voted yes with my checkbook, but just like the 4 bangers, they'll have to switch to chain (by customer demand) sooner or later. Take care.
JC
no they wont, because many people like belts better. I especially like how quieter they are over the chains. THey cost the same to repair etc. just that belts have to be replaced at 100K and chains at 200K.
 

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just that belts have to be replaced at 100K and chains at 200K.
Actually Honda's chain on the K24 4Cyl motors is designed to last the life of the motor. We have already had one member with over 230k miles on his 03 i4 report no issues. He was on the original chain.

The tensioner on the chain in the K24 are self adjusting which I would think eliminated any possibility of noise from the chain as noise is usually cause by slack. Quite the engineering marvel!:yes:
 

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Good points Ed. The main detractor from belts in my case is the TIME factor, since my car would probably have just 25K miles in 5 years, and 35K in 7. It gets pretty hot in summer here, so I'd fall in-between, probably 6 years. My question is if the MM takes time into consideration, and how important it is to follow it.

Everything wears in an engine, but I pretty much consider a timing chain to last the normal useful life of an engine, or 150K miles. Yes, some last longer, and you have to change chain, guides, etc. without an overhaul, but that's 2-1/2 times more (considering 'severe' duty, which is cheap insurance to me) than the chain. Furthermore, an extremely small number of people keep their cars that long (original owners, of course). And noise is just not a factor. My V6 is definitely louder than BMW's I6.

Finally, as I said before, Honda's V6 is so good otherwise that I voted yes with my checkbook, but just like the 4 bangers, they'll have to switch to chain (by customer demand) sooner or later. Take care.
JC
I don't think MM takes time into consideration as I don't think if you have for example 3k miles in 1 yr and MM say change oil.
The thing with chains, is if not designed well its can be makor job to fix/change it major pain.
Lets look at Nissan Z series, 240-280 used chains, they had a lot of noise issue will millage creeps up (yes this is not V6 but L6). Then came 300zx, this used belts, and IMO very well made engine, we used to go above 450hp on twin turbo models. At the time I thought engine was/is very solid engine.
Now with 350z there back with chains, I can't say much on 350z as haven't worked on many. but i think you get my point.
PS: Yes its a pain if you do low millage a yr with timing belt, you just need to check cracking on the inside face of belt, probably max 6-8yrs will need replacement.
 

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I just ordered my new car last week, when does the belt need to be changed? How much? Thanks in advance!
When you get your car, sign up for Honda Owner's Link
https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/login.asp?page=/prod_home.asp. Click on Service Schedule and it tells you what is due when according to the Maintenance Minders. The car's Owner's Manual is sketchy at best re: these details. But as someone has already said, the timing belt is due at 105K under normal conditions. Much better than my old BMW 325es which had a 36K interval. I'm not complaining about the Honda.
 

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The maintenance minder will let you know when to change it also.

And it does take time into consideration. So at 7 years, it should say you need a new timing belt.
 

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"A belt drive can increase power over a timing chain through less frictional loss, more precise timing, smoother valvetrain motion and eliminating windage caused by the timing chain and gears running in oil. A belt drive also isolates the crankshaft's torsional vibrations from the camshaft better than a chain. Think of it as a second harmonic damper for the rotating assembly. And with all that engine builders are doing to stabilize cylinder-to-cylinder camshaft timing, such as larger-diameter cams, doesn't it make sense to do what you can to precisely phase the camshaft to the crankshaft?"

- Leonard Emanuelson (c) autoMedia

^^^^^
What he said. :yes:
 

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I have a 2008 Accord V6 Coupe now has 95,555 miles on it. I'm pretty free this season, so I plan to get it replace in about a week. Do you think it's still early for my car to get timing belt replace.
 

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I got mine replaced at 96,464 km, 8 months ago.... I paid $558.22 labor and parts from Honda Red Deer in Alberta. I followed the 100,000 km due in the service manual. I am not sure if the MM will prompt if the belt is due to be replaced at 100,000 coz as far as I can remember it is not included in the A or B Service when the MM prompts. :dunno: but when I reached 100,000 km, the MM did not show anything....:dunno: probably because it was already done and the dealer have already override the MM...?
 

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"A belt drive can increase power over a timing chain through less frictional loss, more precise timing, smoother valvetrain motion and eliminating windage caused by the timing chain and gears running in oil. A belt drive also isolates the crankshaft's torsional vibrations from the camshaft better than a chain. Think of it as a second harmonic damper for the rotating assembly. And with all that engine builders are doing to stabilize cylinder-to-cylinder camshaft timing, such as larger-diameter cams, doesn't it make sense to do what you can to precisely phase the camshaft to the crankshaft?"

Very interesting facts,

It is rather simple. If you have a belt driven car you need to monitor your maintenance schedule closely and if you should have the belt changed out sooner than later. And don't forget the water pump, and all you're belts while you're there. The fact is I've seen motors with snapped belts and it is not pretty, you're looking at major damage.
I feel as though honda stepped up with the chain for durability.
Now i remember reading that the k 20, chain and chain tensioner should be upgraded.
Upgraded tensioner toda
The K20A engine uses a camshaft timing chain tensioner that is operated with the use of oil pressure with an internal ratchet system which keeps the correct chain tension, and correct valve timing. This system is accurate for factory engines, but when the valvetrain is used in high load situation, as a result of using upgraded high lift camshafts, high rpm operation, rapid down shifting, the standard timing chain tensioner can move. If this movement happens, engine damage may result due to piston to valve contact or valve to valve contact. Due to K20A engine's VTC feature, it is very important to control valve timing (50 degrees movement).
Upgraded chain toda
Advanced punch manufacturing techniques used in the making of the TODA Heavy Duty Timing Chain have improved accuracy and reduced edge burrs leading to reduced friction - resulting in smoother chain operation.
Larger plate shape and larger pin diameter improve the chain's strength and reduce chain stretch.
Up until now, tuning specialists have had to use the OEM timing chain. With the extra demand of hi-performance driving even with the standard road engine and/or components such as camshafts that place extra stress on the valve train system, improved chain strength is important. The highly precise side plates reduce friction and improve the revolution fatigue strength by increasing the area of the plates, a reduction in the burrs and the finish to each individual plate. Moreover, due to the high precision of manufacturing, the hole size and shape in the plate have enabled the use of a larger diameter pin, which also contributes to reducing the stretching of the chain under constant high velocity revolutions by as much as 35%.
SKU: TDA-401-K20-000

So if you have a belt, change sooner than later.
If you have a chain, it wont last forever and you can upgrade that if you want.
 

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Belts are better than chain, though gear drives are the best. :eek:)

I don't care about how often maintanence must be done as long as it is not like every 2 years.

It also depends on who made the belt... Goodyear is the best as they bought out Top Cog for their patent rights. I have not sourced a replacement belt for my Honda V6, as it is only a few years old with about 17K.

Now for my Toyota V6, it is about due for a change... so in about a couple of months I will be taking part in such replacement.

Gosh it is over 10 years old and has 60K on it already. Hehehehe!!

Who ever read this thread and believes chains are wonderful. Have not seen chain stretch. Compared to chain, belts are quieter and more effecient. It is always best to always do the proper change interval with any engine belt or chain driven.

I always put my money on how well the engine performs and dependability. The type of internal components really don't matter beyond that.
 

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IMO you can't really make such general statements, they will not apply to all systems .
For example belt being better than chain on timing accuracy . This would be true if you compared say old V8 timing chain with no tensioner to belt system but modern timing chains keep tension and slack much better now .

The harmonics won't change though, here belt transfers hardly any , if that is a issue to the engine design .
 

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The maintenance minder will let you know when to change it also.

And it does take time into consideration. So at 7 years, it should say you need a new timing belt.
maybe on maintenance but not on oil change . I never get anywhere near mileage to do oil change and by 1 yr no indicator to change it. they really should have max of 1 yr no matter mileage .
 

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IMO you can't really make such general statements, they will not apply to all systems .
For example belt being better than chain on timing accuracy . This would be true if you compared say old V8 timing chain with no tensioner to belt system but modern timing chains keep tension and slack much better now .

The harmonics won't change though, here belt transfers hardly any , if that is a issue to the engine design .
IMO a tensioner keeps the belt/chain from flapping around. It does very little in respect to keeping crank and valve train timing.

Gear drive cogs will keep timing true at all running conditions, up until wear tolarance has been exceeded.

Drive belts may have woven kevlar threads to keep stretching at a minimum, though they do stretch with time. Even though the belt may not break, valve timing will be effected to some degree by time for recommended service. Because of the effeciency of the belt, wear is far less than metal to metal contact.

Chain or link type timing components are usually prone to stretch at high RPMs. Adding wear into the mix, chain / link assemblies are prone for replacement more earlier than belt types.

Rule of thumb... If you abuse your engine, you must take care of it more often than not, no matter how well it is built.
 

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IMO a tensioner keeps the belt/chain from flapping around. It does very little in respect to keeping crank and valve train timing.

Gear drive cogs will keep timing true at all running conditions, up until wear tolarance has been exceeded.

Drive belts may have woven kevlar threads to keep stretching at a minimum, though they do stretch with time. Even though the belt may not break, valve timing will be effected to some degree by time for recommended service. Because of the effeciency of the belt, wear is far less than metal to metal contact.

Chain or link type timing components are usually prone to stretch at high RPMs. Adding wear into the mix, chain / link assemblies are prone for replacement more earlier than belt types.

Rule of thumb... If you abuse your engine, you must take care of it more often than not, no matter how well it is built.
well flapping around chain or belt will not be in timing all times (only when tension on crank is in acceleration more than cams ). you always have tensioner with belts on production vehicles .
With respect to chain stretching it all depends on the chain and of course valvetrain . there are good chain systems, look at many euro vehicles .

I had a 1974 Opel 1900 ,for good (cheap example) , this engine (SOHC) used a duplex roller/double row chain , very little issue due to stretching as the chain was like 1-1/4" thick not at all like for example honda K24 thin chain .
Most of wear in chains are the plastic guides that make it load not that it is bad chain .
Honda will throw a code if timing goes off as it monitors all 3 shafts (cams and crank). I am not a fan of Honda K20's tensioner but that is another story .

In old days chains got bad rap on older V8, not so much the chains stretched , they did but the cam sprocket were plastic molded gear teeth which would get brittle over time and need replacement (they did this for noise) but IMO was bad idea as later all steel was not that much noisy
 
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