[will2drive]

As I didn't want to further drift another's thread about the recently arrival of the 2014 models on the dealers lots, I decided to start this thread. I already see that a few have been purchased and any shared opinions and/or experience's welcome. Thurs this week I have an appointment set with my dealer to appraise my trade and work some numbers. As they seem to have a few 2013 V6's left I told him that I'd even be open to those also. But the colors are fairly limiting as they mostly have a few whites and blacks. I told him that I'm leaning for a Hematite metallic or Modern Steel metallic. He located one of each at another local dealer and could have them by the end of the day. I haven't decided on the Hematite with black leather or the Modern Steel with grey leather. I told him that I wanted the navigation also and he told me that though my savings would be greater on the 2013 model, he recommended the 14' for navigation. He said they have corrected a few issues with it on the newer models.

I started my research by using Cars.com and reading the customer reviews of local dealerships. Though I have one dealer located approx 2 miles from my house, the reviews weren't hardly stellar, both service and sales. This dealer which is approx 20 miles away had great reviews from their service to their sales staff. And mentioning individuals by name is how I found this sales rep. Living up to the reviews, I briefly chatted and explained in all fairness that I already did speak to a rep at the other dealer, this other rep did not call or follow up to my simple requests. I told him that I'm serious about buying...but I'd guess they hear that all the time. I was only asking about locating a vehicle to purchase and not price haggling in the least. On the other hand the rep from the dealer with great reviews called back the next day as promised and after a brief chat, recommended both year vehicles based on my request. Naturally I can get a lower price on the 2013 year end close out, but I can get the 2014 for a few dollars more in the color of my choosing with navigation.

I really like both color combinations and could be happy with either actually. Having never owned a Honda or any import for that matter, I'm looking forward to it. As mentioned in another thread, I was considering the new 2014 Impala 2LTZ also. I had a past history of a vette or two and my current Impala LS which I'll be gladly be trading in. I purchased my Impala to teach my wife to drive because there was no way she would learn to drive in a 6-sp vette. Which btw had been back in the dealer 5 times before 6k miles with mostly electronic steering column locking problems which required being towed into the dealer. Replacing the run flat tires at 11k miles at $465 ea isn't something I'd be willing to do these days in retirement either. Fantastic tires though, I drove on zero psi for a day and a half once on the right front and you'd hardly ever notice it having no air.

Anyway, any folks here that pick up a new 14' Accord I'd like to hear opinions. Knowing virtually no difference's in other than a few very minor things, I'd suspect it to be a great little car. Sure, it could use a better audio system but I hardly listen to the radio/cd's much these days. I'm happy to be able to plug in the iPod though, I have a good amount stored on mine. Well thats about it..I just didn't want to further drift another thread running on about my 2014 inquiry's.

 

[Flyboy]

I am headed to my dealer tomorrow morning to get a safety recall accomplished on my wife's 07 Fit and I will have some time to look at the 2014 Accords. According to Honda's website the only difference between the 2013 and 2014 cars is a different fabric on the LX models and a newer self dimming mirror on the V6. The newer mirror doesn't have an on/off switch.

Choosing the right dealer, especially the service department is very important. I have developed a very good relationship with the service manager and a service writer ever since this dealership opened. The service departmemt is obviously a profit center of the dealership but their recommendations have always been made as polite suggestions. I have only had one bad experience with a service writer when my regular person was on vacation. This person noticed that my rear tires on my Fit had some cupping on the outer edges. he suggested that I have an alignment. One side was out of alignment by one thousandth of an inch. He then told me that the rear beam had to be replaced for $900. When I politely told him he was full of excretement he got mad and started a tirade of all the bad things that could happen if I didn't do the repair. I called Honda customer service and they offered to give me a courtsey repair of $500. I declined and nothing bad has happened to my new tires. I think the cupping was caused by a balancing issue. I not only gave them a bad review on the follow up survey but I also wrote an E-mail to the service manager. That service writer is no longer employed at that dealership.

The three times that I have called Honda customer service since my first Accord in 1981 has always resulted in Honda offering some kind of adjustment. When you do take delivery of your new car I recommend that you register the car on Honda's website called Honda Owners. They will let you know of recalls or other issues with your VIN number.

Unfortunatley, most car dealerships are no longer owned by the family name on the sign. They have been bought out by a couple of big corporations. However, you can still find a service department that is honest and interested in your repete business.

 

[will2drive]

The three times that I have called Honda customer service since my first Accord in 1981 has always resulted in Honda offering some kind of adjustment. When you do take delivery of your new car I recommend that you register the car on Honda's website called Honda Owners. They will let you know of recalls or other issues with your VIN number.

Unfortunatley, most car dealerships are no longer owned by the family name on the sign. They have been bought out by a couple of big corporations. However, you can still find a service department that is honest and interested in your repete business.

Thanks for the welcome advice, I'll follow up on that! I've many stories of dealing with the service depts, both good and bad. One such brief story is that on one of the mentioned occasions that my vette had electronic steering column lock problems, after the repair I didn't notice for a few days that my front seat had a hole punched in it like the size of a screw driver. Being black leather and interior it wasn't something that I quickly noticed. On this occasion my service rep believed they were responsible and replaced the leather seating surface for free. I had an exceptional re pore with this rep and he's one of the reasons that I was even considering another GM. In the end, common sense has prevailed, but I did consider it for a minute or two.

These days I'm so open to the buying experience that I wouldn't be a bit surprised if at the last minute I went with a white 2013 V6 on their lot. I just like the stock photos on the internet of the Hematite and MSM. It's really not all about the money and the best deal for me, but I'm more than fair and understand they have to make a $$ to stay in business. I agree too that the service dept is their bread and butter. I looked into many of their reviews and they get a lot of good feedback, even if it's several miles farther away from my house. A good service dept goes a long way after the sale to affirm the deal. Btw, the dealer is Largo Honda with the very good reviews..

 

[ObsidianEX-L]

I'd go with new technology in an Accord (CVT) before new technology in an American vehicle. I know this may sound biased, and I apologize, but I've had nothing but bad luck and problems with any American vehicle I've owned. I realize the Accord is built in the US, and most American labels are built in Canada now. I'm speaking of where the vehicle is engineered and designed. I'd want to see resale/used value figures of the new Impala before committing. I don't see their resale going up to match the huge increase in price.

That being said, there's no difference between the 2013 and 2014 models with navigation. The dealer is trying to get you to spend more overall IMO, since the '14 would have a higher transaction price vs. the '13. Good luck on your purchase.

 

[ExFed]

Remember that where you buy your car and where you take it for service/repair are two completely different things.

Don't buy a car from a place that has the best service unless it also has the best price on the new car.

Also don't confuse salesmanship with friendly/honest. All sales staff want to maximize the price of their car based on the sales model of the particular dealership.

There is sometimes an advantage to working with senior/supervisory sales people as they have more leeway in setting prices.

 

[Flyboy]

Remember that where you buy your car and where you take it for service/repair are two completely different things.

Don't buy a car from a place that has the best service unless it also has the best price on the new car.

Also don't confuse salesmanship with friendly/honest. All sales staff want to maximize the price of their car based on the sales model of the particular dealership.

There is sometimes an advantage to working with senior/supervisory sales people as they have more leeway in setting prices.

Remember that the sales person will take your offer to his manager who will decide if they will accept your offer. I always look on KBB or Edmunds website to find out what the dealer invoice is for the car and negotiate up to that amount. Remember, Honda will give them a hold back amount of 4% at the end of the year. They also get incentives if you finance through Honda. It's a terrible shell game. A crazy system at best:banana:

 

[mdreibelbis]

Remember, Honda will give them a hold back amount of 4% at the end of the year.

Can you explain that in greater detail?

Thanks

 

[will2drive]

Remember that where you buy your car and where you take it for service/repair are two completely different things.

Don't buy a car from a place that has the best service unless it also has the best price on the new car.

Also don't confuse salesmanship with friendly/honest. All sales staff want to maximize the price of their car based on the sales model of the particular dealership.

There is sometimes an advantage to working with senior/supervisory sales people as they have more leeway in setting prices.

Yea, I'd agree with this. My last 3 purchases were from dealers different from which dealership serviced them. I knew the General Manager of the dealership I purchased from and he worked the numbers, but had it serviced at a dealership less than 5mi from my house. It was a good decision all round for me. Having lived in this same area for many years, I've often heard about the reputation of the dealerships in question. Though the dealership I'm considering a purchase from is farther away, I have purchased a new BMW from the closest dealership that also sells Honda's and they weren't particularly impressive when I serviced my BMW there. And from what I understand currently, their service has further declined. I wish things were different because they're about 5 min from my home.

As for the price, I just want a reasonable deal, but good knowledgeable, friendly sales reps make a huge difference imo. I've purchased enough vehicles in my life to recognize if the folks are squeezing too hard. A good friend who owned Spitzer Dodge here in Miami told me about the chain of command when approving deals. I was in the managers office where the deals are approved when sales folks would come in to get the deal approved. Conversations were ranging from what they were going to have for lunch that day, or even how the weather was before the manager would decline the offer and tell him to get four hundred more from the deal. If not, let the customer walk. My friend Chris who owned the dealer told me that even the factory invoice that they would show on paper to a customer was in fact not the one that really counts. He said they were locked in the safe and pulled out a book with the true costs the dealer paid the factory, but wouldn't show them to anybody but the finance manager if needed, to really close a necessary deal.

 

[MGP999]

What did you like about the Impala and how did it compare to the Accord? Also, there have been some bugs with the new technology of the Accord so new technology isn't a sure thing for either foreign or domestic.

 

[turdburger]

interesting. I didn't even notice the new fabric on the LX.

Someone compare it to the old LX and see if it feels more durable. The old one looked like a cheap rug.

 

[will2drive]

What did you like about the Impala and how did it compare to the Accord? Also, there have been some bugs with the new technology of the Accord so new technology isn't a sure thing for either foreign or domestic.

Honestly, as far as the Impala goes, I just liked the appearance, mostly the way the cabin was arranged. The seating looked comfortable and the instruments well arranged and fully equipped. I can say that the rear quarter panel could use a little refinement but, it's just an opinion. Besides my salesman is on vacation until next week so I told him no real rush. He's aware of my history with my GM vehicles as my service rep recommended him to me. Rey, my service rep is the one who got the leather seating surface replaced in my vette when I told him that I found the puncture hole in the seat. I knew my car well enough that it wasn't there before it went into the shop, and I never carry anything in my pockets that could puncture a hole, especially in the top front of the seating surface. Rey's always been a stand up guy, but sadly my vehicles where in the dealership much too often for my tastes. Currently the re-design of the 14' Impala is impressive and getting some pretty good reviews, but as I told them at the Chevy dealership, no real tangible track record with this new Implala.

I've since pretty much set my sights on the Accord currently, smaller, comparably equipped, and I like the design. As mentioned, I've no experience with Honda, this would be my first, and looking forward to it. GM is a bit long in the tooth for me anymore. Technology will always be moving forward, improving on the past..hopefully. It can be a home A/C unit, computers, audio equipment, cars, any kind of tech, you'll most likely encounter a bug or two, this has never deterred me from making a purchase. I'd like to have perfect running tech, but ultimately it's not going to happen. Getting what I think, based on experience is the best I can do these days and hope for the best. I've certainly had my share of disappointments along the way, I just try to learn from my poor judgement calls and move on. The Impala may pan out to be a great car, but it yet remains to be seen for this new re-design.

 

[Flyboy]

Can you explain that in greater detail?

Thanks

Car dealers finance their inventory through a bank on what's called a floor plan. When they sell a car it comes off the bank list and they stop paying interest on that car and it gets replaced by another when they arrive from the factory. Therefore, you can usually negotiate a better price near the end of the month so that they don't carry the inventory into another month.

The invoice cost of the car is well known and published on the Internet. However, the manufacturer holds back, in Honda's case, 4% of the MRSP until the end of the model year based on the dealer's sales goal. The dealer also gets an incentive if you finance through Honda Finance Corp.

Many dealers will sell you the car at or below their invoice price and install a bunch of options on the car and inflate the pricev they charge you for them. For example, tinted windows, pin stripes, trunk mat, mud guards etc. You can also negotiate those things down during the negotiation. They don't make much on selling new cars.

 

[Murph924]

Many dealers will sell you the car at or below their invoice price and install a bunch of options on the car and inflate the pricev they charge you for them. For example, tinted windows, pin stripes, trunk mat, mud guards etc. You can also negotiate those things down during the negotiation. They don't make much on selling new cars.

I had a very hard time with this. They were going to let me walk out the door, refusing to remove any of their add-on features, which is everything you listed... I decided to bite the bullet rather than walk though, it wasn't too big of a deal.

Already removed that fugly pin stripe though... That took all of 5 minutes :tongue:

 

[Flyboy]

I had a very hard time with this. They were going to let me walk out the door, refusing to remove any of their add-on features, which is everything you listed... I decided to bite the bullet rather than walk though, it wasn't too big of a deal.

Already removed that fugly pin stripe though... That took all of 5 minutes :tongue:

If you had walked they probably would have chased after you to get you back to sign the contract with the price of all the added on options removed.

Regardless, after a couple of years you will forget what you paid for the car and just enjoy driving it.

Buying a car is just a convoluted and frustrating experience. The car dealers say they have to do it that way because we want to think we are getting a great deal. Others have tried no haggle pricing such as Saturn and it didn't work. Who wants to go to the office the next day and tell your coworkers that you just bought a new car and paid list price? :thumbsdow

Automobile dealers in every state have a strong lobby to keep franchise laws in place to protect their monopoly and from you being able to buy a car directly from the manufacturer. Just ask Elon Musk how he made out in Austin this spring.

http://jalopnik.com/how-petty-money-politics-crushed-tesla-in-texas-1286201748

 

[will2drive]

Great explanation Flyboy, well done :thmsup: I always seem to fall in the middle of the purchase pack, as long as I'm happy with my purchase and can afford it, I'm good.

 

[joebxr]

I would add the folowing on the HOLDBACK situation, as how I understand it.......
"With the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3 percent of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for the excess amount. This is the "holdback," so named because funds are "held back" by the manufacturer and released only after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership."

for HONDA I find the holdback is 2% of the Base MSRP...key here is "BASE", so the figure is not calculated against the entire MSRP.

Dealers I have negotiated with have discounted the vehicle with the holdback, but not all dealers are willing to do that. The key to getting everything is that even giving up the holdback to the buyer, there ar other incentives the dealers gets for sales based on many other factors, above and beyond the margin earned on the car itself.

 

[glen e]

Don't pull a muscle trying to figure out what a dealer pays and does not pay for a car as it changes, based on ad group fees and other things that no one knows about. It is not the same in all parts of the country. I was a Honda factory rep and a General manager of a store so I know.. the best advice is go to the sticky "Price paid" thread:

post #1486 on page 100 or #2073 sums it up well...

 

[Intrepid1]

complaints

A lot of people complain about the need to wheel and deal when buying a car.

As someone pointed out previously, Saturn's fixed price sales strategy didn't succeed in the end.

People say they hate horsetrading, but many actually insist on doing so. 'Give me your best price" then after getting it offer 1000 less.

A lot of it is ego, and the want to try to outwit someone else.

Some just want a fair price, but many want to brag about their ability to dicker . . .

 

[Buccaneer82]

To me it's far easier and less hassle to contact a select group of dealers internet managers and invite them to bid on the sale of a specific yr/model/color/options. I tell them I'll email/fax a 1 page document outlining the process and that I'll be buying a car on one of the last days of the month about 3 days prior to this and will give each one 1 shot to beat the lowest initial bid. Keep it so the dealers don't know whose bidding for the business. Using this strategy usually 1 dealer has to hit his numbers and gives a good price. After you get the lowest price then can negotiate trade, finance, etc.

 

[Flyboy]

To me it's far easier and less hassle to contact a select group of dealers internet managers and invite them to bid on the sale of a specific yr/model/color/options. I tell them I'll email/fax a 1 page document outlining the process and that I'll be buying a car on one of the last days of the month about 3 days prior to this and will give each one 1 shot to beat the lowest initial bid. Keep it so the dealers don't know whose bidding for the business. Using this strategy usually 1 dealer has to hit his numbers and gives a good price. After you get the lowest price then can negotiate trade, finance, etc.

Good idea. I tried it once and the dealer's refused to bid. Always get the price negotiated before talking trade in or financing. The end of the month will get you the best price.