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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Fellow Owners,

I changed the oil for the first time on 2/08/14 at 3,702 miles on my 2014 Honda Accord LX 2.4 4 -Cyl K24W1. I would always let the car warm up to the very bottom inside of the normal operating range on the temperature gauge before driving mainly due to the cold weather. The car was mainly used in mixed driving which includes the 2-3 days per week I drive the 82 mile round trip to the office (50% highway).

The oil drained for 1.5 hours and I replaced with Honda Genuine Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w-20 Motor Oil and Honda oil filter. The oil that was drained out was a pretty dark brown.

Is it normal for the oil to be pretty dark on the new 2.4 Accord with only 3,702 miles on the first oil change? The oil is already discoloring with 400 miles since the oil change.

I have sent in an oil analysis test kit to ALS Lab Group - Tribology in Valley View Ohio to check the wear on break in. I plan on testing the next two oil changes as well. Brilliance Honda will do the second change between 7,300 - 7,500 miles for warranty purposes.

Last, the oil capacity on the 2.4 engine is 4.4 quarts with filter. However, this only gets the oil level on the dipstick to about 25% up from the bottom mark (hole). To get the oil to the top mark hole) which is the maximum level it requires 5 quarts. This is the same oil level that the car came with from the factory. Is 5 quarts the true maximum oil capacity of this engine?

Please let me know your findings. Thank you ahead of time for your feedback.
 

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Fellow Owners,
Last, the oil capacity on the 2.4 engine is 4.4 quarts with filter. However, this only gets the oil level on the dipstick to about 25% up from the bottom mark (hole). To get the oil to the top mark hole) which is the maximum level it requires 5 quarts. This is the same oil level that the car came with from the factory. Is 5 quarts the true maximum oil capacity of this engine?

Please let me know your findings. Thank you ahead of time for your feedback.
I have been doing 5 qts every oil change on 9th gen 2.4L. Trust your dipstick.

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77975
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
^^^

I changed the oil on level ground and rechecked it today on level ground after hours of sitting. The oil is at the upper mark. The true maximum capacity on these 2.4 K24W1 4 cylinder engines is 5 quarts.

I also believe 3,702 miles is enough for engine break in.

Thank you for your clarification.
 

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JaeDM
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should of kept it in there longer. There supposed to be something in the oil that helps you break in your car.

A lot of members here changed their oils between 8-10k on the first oil change. Refer to your manual for more info on the oil.
 

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should of kept it in there longer. There supposed to be something in the oil that helps you break in your car.

A lot of members here changed their oils between 8-10k on the first oil change. Refer to your manual for more info on the oil.
Do you have a scientific proof that keeping the break in oil will improve the longevity of the engine? Do you think the Honda engine gods will be angry? The 9th owner's manual said 4.4 qt as well and I don't think it is correct. My brother in law changed out the factory oil at 1000 miles on 2003 2.4L I-4, and now he has 450,000 miles on it. He changes it every 5000 miles. I don't see any harm done by changing it out at 1000 or 3000 miles or 5000 miles. I would say the OP is a pretty smart guy having intelligence to add enough oil and change it out at a reasonable interval.
 

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Is it normal for the oil to be pretty dark on the new 2.4 Accord with only 3,702 miles on the first oil change?
No one knows because no one changes it that early- this is not a Dodge from 1980.

Yes, oil gets dark pretty quickly. It is NOT an indication of how worn down (or not) the additives are.

Good job in sending in for an analysis. Best $25 you can spend, although I think many here would be surprised that you are doing it so early. Please share results.
 

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Break-in or not, there is no need to change the oil that early. I go 7500 on the first 2 oil changes on a brand new car. Every 5000 after that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
^^^
RickBlaine,

Funny you say this is not a Dodge from 1980. In reality I am a Mopar guy at heart but Dodge does not currently offer a good midsize car. I have had good luck with my Dodges with the last being a 2006 Charger R/T with the 5.7L Hemi. I had to take an unbiased look at what was available and the Accord LX was a great value with build quailty. I do think it will be interesting to see the RWD Avenger replacement in the future.

3,702 miles is more than adequate for break in. The engine saw a variety of engine speeds but never saw red line. Maybe 4-5 wide open throttle sprints from 10 mph on (slow start on purpose) but no more then 5-6,500 RPM and this was after 800 miles. 95% of my acceleration was no more than 2,400 RPM which is impressively low for a 4 cylinder thanks to the CVT. From time to time acceleration was 3-3,250 RPM. The car is babied but I wanted to make sure it saw a variety of speeds during its first 3,702 miles.
 

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JaeDM
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Do you have a scientific proof that keeping the break in oil will improve the longevity of the engine? Do you think the Honda engine gods will be angry? The 9th owner's manual said 4.4 qt as well and I don't think it is correct. My brother in law changed out the factory oil at 1000 miles on 2003 2.4L I-4, and now he has 450,000 miles on it. He changes it every 5000 miles. I don't see any harm done by changing it out at 1000 or 3000 miles or 5000 miles. I would say the OP is a pretty smart guy having intelligence to add enough oil and change it out at a reasonable interval.
Never said anything about the 4.4 qts of oil. I'm goin by what I've read on the boards. I had my first oil change done on my previous sport at almost 10k miles when my MM said my oil at 5%. Why would we go against the manual when Honda are the ones who made the car?
 

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I saw the "Woodstock" in your location and thought, "I wonder if he knows people at the Chrysler plant in Belvidere, IL"?

Mo-Par or No car! I was a Dodge guy myself.

Yeah, the Accord is a "little different". My 2005 has cost me a grand total of $28 for repair costs (coolant temp sensor). By the way, when it had a warranty, it never needed anything. Nine years, 100,000 miles.....$28.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
^^^
RickBlaine

Nah, the only person I knew at the Belvidere plant worked there temporarily.

I do not know if I will ever get to the point where I leave Mopar altogether. Chrysler did power our country to the moon with the Saturn V rockets to flying our troops home from WWII. Not many people know their contributions to our country.

I was looking at another Charger R/T but it did not make sense from a size and fuel standpoint. The 2006 Charger held up great for what I put it through over 118,000 miles. The 5.7 Hemi is an amazing engine when combined to the WA580 5 Speed Auto. Nothing beat the sound and thrill for the money. However at 28 years old the Accord LX made more sense as a daily driver and if I need to keep the car for the long term. The days of driving fast are over anyways. I must point out that I personally believe Chrysler quality is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. The car took everything and never missed a beat. However, after looking at the new cars the Honda clearly has an advantage at the car level.

Only $28 for a coolant temp sensor is amazing for 100,000 miles for service costs. Let's just say you in reality you are at $0 because every car is allowed a minor malfunction or two in the first 100,000 miles.

I thought about getting a rust free southern 90-93 Accord sedan to fiddle with.
 

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I do not know if I will ever get to the point where I leave Mopar altogether. Chrysler did power our country to the moon with the Saturn V rockets to flying our troops home from WWII. Not many people know their contributions to our country.

I thought about getting a rust free southern 90-93 Accord sedan to fiddle with.
A couple of years ago I was spending time in India and saw 4 blacked out Dodge Chargers in Mumbai. That made me happy. People got the heck out of those Chargers' way.

Some of those Indian software company owners are billionaires, but bought Chargers. I want to add though that the Hemi is made in Mexico and the body is from Canada. The Accord- USA. As the world gets smaller and more companies are multi-national, it can mean more possibilities. I am excited for Chrysler and their Fiat brothers. That synergy could produce some interesting rides.

My niece has her family-owned 1995 Accord EX sedan....my brother gave it to her (his daughter) when she started college last fall. Amazing car.
 

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Never said anything about the 4.4 qts of oil. I'm goin by what I've read on the boards. I had my first oil change done on my previous sport at almost 10k miles when my MM said my oil at 5%. Why would we go against the manual when Honda are the ones who made the car?
Dealers do not make much money from an oil change service. It is up to you to change it at 10k. Don't trust that MM too much as it is not capable of telling anyone when the oil level is too low or your CVT fluid is super dirty. The manuals are not necessarily written buy a great engineer or most knowledgeable or technical person. Honda dealers do not follow everything in the manual either - i.e., they do not use Honda fluids or oil or recommended grades. If people buy Honda fluids and oil, more money for them because they are so over priced.
 

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I bought my wife a 2013 Wrangler as she's wanted one for 20 years...against my better judgement as I've been in many Chrysler Dodge plants and seen the shenanigans first hand. The Wrangler rattled and squeaked off the lot, it met my expectations. It is a fun vehicle though and my wife smiles every time she gets in it.
 

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Never said anything about the 4.4 qts of oil. I'm goin by what I've read on the boards. I had my first oil change done on my previous sport at almost 10k miles when my MM said my oil at 5%. Why would we go against the manual when Honda are the ones who made the car?
No harm in following the MM as some insinuate, Honda obviously wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot by having people delay important service since that would only increase long term warranty claims, and they certainly don't let junior engineers decide maintenance intervals (a laughable idea)! I find it humorous how people who aren't privy to Honda's decision making process on recommended maintenance intervals, nor are employed in that industry, believe they know better than Honda so they can ignore their guidelines, and when challenged they say the onus is on you to produce scientific proof, when it should be the ones not following guidelines who should be the ones providing scientific proof (not to be confused with anecdotal evidence)! Reading the forum here is better than the Sunday funnies!
 

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Dealers do not make much money from an oil change service. It is up to you to change it at 10k. Don't trust that MM too much as it is not capable of telling anyone when the oil level is too low or your CVT fluid is super dirty. The manuals are not necessarily written buy a great engineer or most knowledgeable or technical person. Honda dealers do not follow everything in the manual either - i.e., they do not use Honda fluids or oil or recommended grades. If people buy Honda fluids and oil, more money for them because they are so over priced.
I disagree with your statements about oil changes and that the dealers do not make much money from oil change service. Oil changes are a tremendous profit center for the dealer and an opportunity for a techniction to inspect the car for possible future repairs. When I brought my wife's 07 Fit in for the last oil change they told me the front pads were down to about less than 10% wear. I then told them to replace the pads so that I didn't have to bring the car in when the brakes started to squeal. Most large Honda dealers have installed quick oil change centers to speed up the process by not having to raise and lower the car on a lift.

Of course the MM doesn't know the oil level therefore the owner's manual tells you to check the level after each fuel fill up. However, the MM does keep track of things that do affect the life of the oil such as duration of running time, which tracks distance of trips, oil temperatures as well as other parameters. Honda's engineers designed the MM system to more accurately determine oil change intervals rather than just straight milage to match driving style and conditions to the oil's lubricating capability. Also, what does the condition or color of the CVT fluid have to do with oil change intervals?

A Honda dealer has to buy and use genuine Honda parts and recommended fluids. My old Accord doesn't have a MM so I change the oil based on the milage minder at about 7,000 miles. The Honda dealer always puts a reminder sticker on the windshield adding 3,500 miles to decrease the time until the next change. If the Honda dealer didn't make money changing oil, why would they recommend changing the oil at 3,500 miles instead of 7,000 miles? The sticker says Quaker State oil, which is a top quality Pennsylvania grade mineral oil.

I don't know what break in chemicals are in the oil that is put in the engine at the factory, but as long as the car is under warrantee, I would just follow the MM and let the dealer change the oil. I have always changed the oil in all my Honda cars as recommended by the owner's manual and have never had an engine problem with a Honda. The dealer charges the same or less than a quick oil change place and I trust the dealer more than the quick lube place on the corner.

BTW my 2000 Accord has over 160,000 miles and uses no oil between changes. My wife's 07 Fit has over 51,000 miles and uses about a pint of oil between changes and I always follow MM to determine when to change the oil on that car.
 

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Reading the forum here is better than the Sunday funnies!
I am glad that I made your day!

I disagree with your statements about oil changes and that the dealers do not make much money from oil change service.
I was only talking about a strict oil change. There is no profit at $25-$35 for an oil change. They do make it up in other work like you said.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
No harm in following the MM as some insinuate, Honda obviously wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot by having people delay important service since that would only increase long term warranty claims, and they certainly don't let junior engineers decide maintenance intervals (a laughable idea)! I find it humorous how people who aren't privy to Honda's decision making process on recommended maintenance intervals, nor are employed in that industry, believe they know better than Honda so they can ignore their guidelines, and when challenged they say the onus is on you to produce scientific proof, when it should be the ones not following guidelines who should be the ones providing scientific proof (not to be confused with anecdotal evidence)! Reading the forum here is better than the Sunday funnies!
Actually, there is areas where we can do better than the Honda engineers. A good example is the over the counter oils. The engineers have to develop engine packages that wear based on the limitations set up between the EPA which in turn has a great regulatory influence on the SAE and API. Oil manufacturers are limited to the amount of oil additives they can package into a particular oil.

From 3,200-118,000 miles in a 2006 Dodge Charger R/T I ran an oil that not many Honda enthusiasts would be aware of. It is call Quantumblue Motor Oil by BND Automotive (it's not blue). It is a non PAO (polyalphaolefin) fully synthetic made from sweet crude oil. PAO oils (Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, etc.) are very aggressive on seals and generally have a small molecular structure that every time you stop your car for more than an hour the additive package drops to the bottom of the oil pan and when restarted mixes back in first few minutes of driving aka extra wear and less protection.

Quantumblue having a much larger molecular structure can carry a much larger additive package. Most oils carry oil 700-900 PPM (parts per million) zinc and 700-800 PPM phosphorus. Quauntumblue generally has 1,000-1,300 PPM zinc and 3,000-5,000 PPM phosphorus. This is just an example. By the way Phosphorus does not destroy emissions systems and is just a myth. There are thousands on the ChargerForums among other forums that use Quantumblue and there has never been a an emissions system failure due to this oil. I had the original oxygen sensors on the car at 118,000 when I sold it. My car used (not burned) 1-1.25 quarts of oil every 10,000-12,000 mile oil change. On a 5.7L V8 that is very little. Also, the oil stayed pretty clear the first 5,000-6,000 miles when the oil in my new Honda is dark by 3,000 miles. This is not because the oil is doing its job by cleaning. PAO oils with a small molecule base allows a lot of blow by at the seat of the rings which contaminates the oil. This is not good based on popular belief. Oil is not supposed to get dirty fast! This is no snake oil. It actually works at better protecting your engine! Attached is an ALS oil analysis test for a 2008 Charger going well beyond Honda's oil change interval on the 2013-current Accord. I did these tests on my Dodge engine as well! Brian at BND Automotive can put together a blended oil for your car as well. Depending on how the wear tests come back on the Honda Genuine Full Synthetic I might be switching back to his oil. Pennzoil Platinum to Mobil 1... basically all the over the shelf PAO based synthetic oils are all the same made from the same base stocks.

Tribology is very interesting...

Take a look. Copper is the only exception below and being a soft metal lining bleeds from under the lead, tin overlay.

We are all entitled to our own opinions but we are not entitled to our own facts!!!

 

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To address the OP's question regarding oil capacity, I changed the oil yesterday and needed the entire 5 quarts as well.

I found that a considerable amount remained in the pan after it stopped dripping when the car was on level ground. After jacking up the front end, it poured (not dripped, poured) again for another couple of minutes at least. I didn't measure how much came out before and after I jacked it, but I would suspect that the 4.4 quart figure assumes the car is on level ground or on a lift.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
To address the OP's question regarding oil capacity, I changed the oil yesterday and needed the entire 5 quarts as well.

I found that a considerable amount remained in the pan after it stopped dripping when the car was on level ground. After jacking up the front end, it poured (not dripped, poured) again for another couple of minutes at least. I didn't measure how much came out before and after I jacked it, but I would suspect that the 4.4 quart figure assumes the car is on level ground or on a lift.
Thank you for verification. These engines do take a full 5 quarts if allowed to drain long enough.
 
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