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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,
I picked up my 2015 Accord Touring, 4 cyl, 6 speed manual on June 30th. We are lucky here in Canada, as I don't believe this trim level is available in US:
I had many different cars and here is my opinion on Pros and Cons, as well as description of the issue I got with my brand new Honda.
Good: Well sorted chassis, precise direct steering, good engine/tranny combo makes it fun to drive with good fuel economy. Decent stereo (6 speakers + sub). Seats are not as comfortable as my traded-in 2013 Kia Optima EX, but still way better than 2010 Camry SE.
Good handling for mid-size sedan, better than Camry and Optima, you do fill good body rigidity and well sorted suspension, prompts to Honda for good engineering here!!

Bad: as the car reached over 1000 Miles I pushed it above 4000 rpm and discover weird noise when the engine approaches 5000 rpm, could be described as a rattling/popping sound coming from the engine bay. At first I thought it came from the passenger side tweeter...., sounded like a blown speaker. I though that noise cancelling malfunctioned or something. Noise was there with stereo OFF as well.
I did try a couple of times and then went to the dealership I bought it from, here in Calgary, took a foreman mechanic for a ride with me.
He noticed sound right a way.
Long story short my car with 2200 KM on odometer, (less than 1500 miles) is at the shop since Aug 17th, last update from the service adviser was that timing chain tensioner is a suspect. they replaced a few other things already as far as I know. I talked to service adviser in the middle of the week and on Friday. The car might be ready on August 24th, they will contact me with the status update.
Driving service rental Civic now. Adviser tried to tell me I will have to pay for rental, however I mentioned it would not be fair to me since I just got a brand new car from them, she said there is a possibility they take care of this. I also plan to contact Honda Canada tomorrow and discuss issue with my brand new Accord.
I realize these things can happen with any make, but it is first time for me that brand new car has to be in service for days.
I lease this car, but was thinking of buying it out and keeping for a long time....

I truly enjoy driving aspect and hope it will be fixed completely without further issues. I will ask Honda to increase powertrain warranty on my car, I believe I have a case and it is a fair thing to ask in this situation.
Will keep you posted on further developments and communications with Honda, hope above info will be helpful to forum community.
Any suggestions, questions are welcome. Cheers!
 

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Even in a basket of oranges, there's the occasional lemon.

It's a shame to see this type of failure so early, but lets see what they actually need to do to fix the problem. Even buying new, mass produced cars is a bit of a gamble.
 

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There is no way you should have to pay rental fees for a replacement driver. That may not be covered in the actual warranty, but it should be a customer satisfaction issue the dealer should provide no questions asked.
 

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Do you have a video of the noise ? I hear a buzzing noise at WOT from the right side panel where the tweeter would have been.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Guys,
Thank you,

Quick update:
Called dealership to find out if the car is fixed and ready for pickup.
(Service adviser mentioned on Friday that if the timing chain tensioner replacement fixes noise, car should be ready for pickup today).
Unfortunately replacing the tensioner did NOT fix the issue.
HondaWest asked for a few more days and next communication from them should be expected on Aug 26 or 27th.

I do not have a video recording of the issue, as i had foreman available to go with me on the test drive and he confirmed the issue right a way.
Automotive sounds/noises can be difficult to diagnose/describe, as they can be transmuted from different parts of the body....
If somebody has issue similar to what I have, it would get noticed right a way, as around 4800rpm and above noise is very very pronounced. One thing that foreman noticed that after triggering that noise and letting OFF the accelerator, noise lasts until rpm going down to 4000...
I tried to google and there were not much to go buy, saw similar description for 2005 Acura RL and 2011 Civic, with no resolutions.

I do not have direct communication with foreman, he is pretty bright fella, who said from the start that he will pull Honda engineering team into this if needed.
I still have positive outlook, not much I can do.., right now.
I just hope car will still feel like new when I get it back......:smile
I wrote to Honda Canada as well, describing my experience with new car and prolonged time in the shop, we will see where it goes, I want them to be aware of this case.

Thanks guys, I will update on developments if I hear back from shop or Honda.
 

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I discussed the issue with Honda Canada Customer care on Aug 26th. They were helpful, reaching out to dealership, finding more details and communicating back to me. CR person also assure me their will be no charge for service rental and first Type A and B services will be on them to compensate for such a headaches so early in the ownership.
Same afternoon, I received the call from HondaWest with the good news that my car is ready.
I came to the dealership to find my car fully detailed inside and out, spotless, including engine bay.
Chatted with foreman and found that he replaced a few things including timing chain, tensioner and guides, this did not help and he proceeded with replacing whole cylinder head. Shipping my original back to Honda to be looked by engineers. Accord was driven a few times after that and no noises were heard.

There I was on my way, and as soon as the engine warmed up I discovered same noise present, just slightly muted. I turned a round and went back to the dealer.
Foreman, who is a great, knowledgeable fella, was in total disbelieve that this is happening again and went for a test drive with me where we confirmed the fact....,

Accord is scheduled to be back at the dealership on Sept 8th. (Foreman is on vacation till then).
I called back Honda Customer service next day and mentioned that car still has issue.
It is considered driveable, as long as you not going close to 5,000 rpm (where VTEC comes to life). This is a manual unit so rev above 4,000 is pretty normal occurrence, even for conservative driver, like myself.

Honda representative asked to give dealership another chance to fix the issue, if further complications, there will be engineer send to look at the car.. then other options will be discussed. It was mentioned that Honda will restore my confidence with the product.

A few other details:

Foreman sent sound sample to Ontario, engineering team.
I removed everything from the interior (charges, usb dirves, and so on, just to eliminate possibility of foreign objects make this noise
I mentioned to CR and foreman that IMHO we need a sound specialist. (Sound is high pitched, I would think it would be muffled by the engine bay firewall a little). Still sounds like a blown, popping tweeter/electrical nature..

I will post recorded noise shortly. All opinions welcome, as we are back at the square 1.
I will change the title of the original post, since timing chain is NOT the issue.
Thanks for all suggestions.....,

Here is the sound sample:
Check 10 sec to 15 sec, acceleration in the second gear and little further.
Sounds like grain/rice pouring into barrel:
 

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Does it happen out of gear? It does sound like rice into a barrel.

You are being really good about this and looks like Honda is working with you but it has taken too long to rectify this. Check what your rights are in Canada and document everything should the process get nasty. You paid a fortune for this car and already had the cylinder head removed. Hopefully the engineers will come up with a solution and get rid of the noise. I guess it's safe to say it's not in the valvetrain at this point. Maybe they are so stumped because it's a manual. It almost sounds like a rattle external from the engine. Maybe related to the high pressure DI. For starters they should disconnect the drive belt and see if the noise reappears to rule out whatever is driven by those pulleys.

Let us know what it turns out to be.
 

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That really sounds to me like an exhaust rattle more than an internal engine noise. A timing chain noise would be present especially at idle and sound like a knocking or metal slapping and would be repeatable by snapping the throttle at idle. Hope you get this sorted, it certainly doesn't sound normal!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks guys,
As per foreman, rev limiter will not allow above 4200, 4300 rpm at stand still. Not enough to hear the issue.
If you are coasting in neutral, you can go to about 5500 rpm. That would be enough for noise to present itself, but you need to coast.., however slow...
September 8th will be back to the shop.


From the Dealership service document: Mechanic's notes:

“Confirmed noise when engine revs above 5000rpm,
Inspect serpentine belt tensioner and found some noise when running.
(Cannot rev above 4200 without engine load) at idle.
Replacement of the serpentine belt tensioner pulley did not resolve this noise.
Removal of the valve cover showed excessive clearance in the timing chain with engine stopped. Removal of inspection cover showed abnormal tensioner movement when even slightly pressured. Removal of the front engine cover was done to inspect timing chain and guides. Techline was contacted and file started.
After discussing inspection results it was decided to replace the timing chain, VTC actuator, tensioner and forward and rearward guides. After timing components changed, noise was still present.
Techline advised an oil pressure test, which was well within spec ([email protected] (min 10 psi) and 100 psi @4500 rpm (44 psi min). After further discussion, a new cylinder head (complete) was installed. “

Problem is still there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Serious drivetrain issues: 2015 Accord

Sept 21 update:
- Car is at the dealer since Sept8;
- Total time out of service: 3 weeks (two visits)
- 1600 miles on odometer; (2700 km)
- Unfortunately, still no success with identifying source of the noise
- Region engineer visited dealership on Sept17th and 18th, worked with foreman
- Sept 21 received a call from Honda Canada CR; He notified me about spare part been ordered from Japan, it will arrive in 10 days. No guarantee it will fix the issue.
- Honda CR avoiding talks about car replacement
- Honda CR suggesting that car replacement talks should be handled with Dealership...? I found this puzzling. I spoke with the Dealer Sales Manager and he mentioned Honda has to authorize replacement. I will chat with Sales Manager again tomorrow about options, hope he can help, but doubt they will replace the car without Honda Canada covering $$$$ difference.

There is no "Lemon" law in Canada, so this will be long and painful.
I pre-paid my 36 months lease with $15,000 CAN trade-in. Money back would satisfy me completely, as I am not happy with "new car ownership" experience. Did not expect such a headache, especially with new Accord.
 

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Get some help from someone outside Honda who knows what your rights are in Canada. At lease they should give you an equivalent loaner while the clock keeps on ticking. Even though your exposure is minimized due to the lease, Honda needs to make this right, you've been inconvenienced enough.
 
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