Drive Accord Honda Forums banner

Turbo or Supercharger

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Before I say anything, for the love of god, do not say buy a V6. I've driven several 9th gen V6 accords and I can't stand the roughness of the shifting and handling. It can't compare with the smoothness of the CVT models. That's why I'm going with an i4. It can still handle 250-275 reliably if tuned well.

With that being said, there's a turbo and supercharger kit available for 9g i4 accords, so I'm torn with which I should buy. Perhaps someone who knows more about either of them could enlighten me. The supercharger kit is made by Rotrex, the part number is 150-05-0030K. It advertises about 250hp. The Turbo kit is from xxxxxx, and it can be tuned up to 285-315 on MT but they suggest 250-270 on CVT.

What should I do? The turbo kit is significantly more expensive, but I've heard of people on the Accord FB page running it on the CVT with no issues. I also plan to be running this with an axleback exhaust, thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
I'd recommend a bolt on supercharger for a daily driver. From my own personal experience, aftermarket turbos are more of a hassle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'd recommend a bolt on supercharger for a daily driver. From my own personal experience, aftermarket turbos are more of a hassle.
What problems come with? This kit is quite overbuilt imo and the boost control can cut boost as well, I believe it is customizable by the tuner too
 

·
cvt - NOT
Joined
·
1,285 Posts
Aside from the stated gains from the turbo and supercharger option. Which option are you leaning toward and why?

250-275 hp on a 9th gen CVT that was designed for a 189 hp @ 6,400 rpm CVT will not last very long. Why not consider the MT Accord in either 4 banger or V6 option if you're so displeased with the AT?
 

·
port & polish everything
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
The CVT probably won't last. There are lots of tuned civic 1.5T CVT failures. Not sure why one would mod this platform when Honda already makes a 10 speed 2.0T. Trade in values are good still.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
Not trying to shoot you down or anything.....

Can you live without your AC?

It's not CARB approved and will fail emissions, depending which state you live in.

2 important things you need to know from the Rotrex SC kit mentioned:

  • Kit REQUIRES removal of A/C Compressor.
  • Kit is NOT CARB Approved, and is never to be used on Pollution Controlled Vehicles or Public Highways.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Hudouc

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Aside from the stated gains from the turbo and supercharger option. Which option are you leaning toward and why?

250-275 hp on a 9th gen CVT that was designed for a 189 hp @ 6,400 rpm CVT will not last very long. Why not consider the MT Accord in either 4 banger or V6 option if you're so displeased with the AT?
"R2R kit provides 0.4-0.5 bar of boost enough for 260 flywheel hp, what is acceptable for stock engine, so you don’t need replace engine internals.
One of advantages of Rotrex supercharger is linear boost curve, without sharp spikes inherent for turbos.

Therefore, you will get pretty much mid range power and horizontal torque curve till the rev-limit, without descent featured natural aspirated and turbo engines.
Also linear boost is much better for FWD cars, because of less tires slippage.

And, finally, such kind of boost results less load on engine components what is especially important for auto transmissions."
And the turbo kit states:
"There will be little to no drilling required, and no cutting, denting, banging or bashing anywhere on the car, so it can be returned to stock form quickly and easily!

Different dynos and your final tune will dictate final power numbers, but for MT cars we see between 285-315 whp reliably, while we suggest limiting the power levels to 250-270 whp for the CVT transmissions."

Also, finding a no-accident low mileage manual i4 Coupe in Black from 2013-2015 less than 250 miles away is... almost impossible? And I hate how the V6 drives and handles. Doesn't compare to the i4 CVT. I like what I have now.

As far as the supercharger, it is more reliable but you must remove AC. The linear boost curve is boring however and I would rather have the tunability and customization of the turbo kit. Turbo also has boost control w/ cutoff. I don't plan on running a ~270HP tune all the time. I would rather run 200-220 most of the time with a low cutoff while driving normally, so it's more of an occasional thing, and I don't plan on ever tracking it. It's not like I'm going to be in boost all the time.

Not trying to shoot you down or anything.....

Can you live without your AC?

It's not CARB approved and will fail emissions, depending which state you live in.

2 important things you need to know from the Rotrex SC kit mentioned:

  • Kit REQUIRES removal of A/C Compressor.
  • Kit is NOT CARB Approved, and is never to be used on Pollution Controlled Vehicles or Public Highways.
Yeah, I think that's a deal breaker... plus linear boost curve is and no tire spin is very.. mundane. I don't have emissions so that shouldn't be an issue though.

The CVT probably won't last. There are lots of tuned civic 1.5T CVT failures. Not sure why one would mod this platform when Honda already makes a 10 speed 2.0T. Trade in values are good still.

He mentions in the video he had it tuned more than once, and that he literally raced his car the night before. He also mentions that he changes his own oil and transmission fluid, and frankly, I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't work on Hondas to touch the CVT.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the 1.5 10th gen is running an entirely different CVT considering the 2013-15 CVTs are different from the 16-17s.

I don't race, I plan on running 260-270 very occasionally, but mostly staying around 200-220 for normal driving. Turbo kit has boost control w/ adjustable cutoff. Also comes w/ professional E-tuning from a reliable tuner.
 

·
Turbo lag
Joined
·
1,772 Posts
Where are you getting this whole supercharger being more reliable than a turbo?

Also, removing the whole AC for 260-270hp is just silly. Go big or go home, or just buy the V6 if 260-270 is all you're looking for.

That very occasionally is very optimistic, it's really easy to get addicted to power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
362 Posts
Billionth time someone with less than 10 posts talking about either putting manual transmission in the automatic V6 or turbo/supercharger. Only to never be heard from again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
What problems come with? This kit is quite overbuilt imo and the boost control can cut boost as well, I believe it is customizable by the tuner too
I'd say the biggest issue besides a of lot extra heat under the hood would be oil feed and return line. I lost a good amount of oil to the turbo instead of going to head. This was shown by a having lower oil pressure. I ended up going with restrictive fitting to fix that problem. Placing the return line correctly was another hassle. Most of my other issues were a product of limited ecu control. Mind you, I had turbo on a Honda Prelude just before Chrome was an option and Hondata was a rumor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
.

Where are you getting this whole supercharger being more reliable than a turbo?

Also, removing the whole AC for 260-270hp is just silly. Go big or go home, or just buy the V6 if 260-270 is all you're looking for.

That very occasionally is very optimistic, it's really easy to get addicted to power.
Did you actually read through the thread? Everything you question has already been answered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
@algameda, I did some research myself on this topic 3 years ago. The sound of a forced induction's blow off valve on Hondas is awesome.

Once I learned it wasn't CARB approved, I was in 😢 tears, Wishing it was the early 1990's again, the "golden days of Hondas".

But if you decide on this, there are additional costs such as installation, tuning, maybe better suspension and tires to avoid wheel spin.

As a forum, we can only give you our input/opinions. Good luck whatever you decide and be safe always, brother.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Billionth time someone with less than 10 posts talking about either putting manual transmission in the automatic V6 or turbo/supercharger. Only to never be heard from again.
Good lord. Be useful, or there's really no need to contribute.

@algameda, I did some research myself on this topic 3 years ago. The sound of a forced induction's blow off valve on Hondas is awesome.

Once I learned it wasn't CARB approved, I was in 😢 tears, Wishing it was the early 1990's again, the "golden days of Hondas".

But if you decide on this, there are additional costs such as installation, tuning, maybe better suspension and tires to avoid wheel spin.

As a forum, we can only give you our input/opinions. Good luck whatever you decide and be safe always, brother.
Thanks for the input.

I'm lucky enough to have no tamper or emissions testing where I live, so, anything goes. I'm honestly fine spending $4-5k to turbocharge the K24W instead of getting a V6.

I do already plan on adding TEIN Coilovers, 225s or 235s, and an Acura/V6 accord sway bar, as well as 4-pistons in the front. That should be more than enough to compensate. (But wheelspin is always fun)

The supercharger requires me to remove my entire AC, and seems less reliable. The turbo kit installation only requires a few holes to be drilled, and can be removed and turned back to stock if ever needed. Definitely going with Turbo!!
 

·
port & polish everything
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
He mentions in the video he had it tuned more than once, and that he literally raced his car the night before. He also mentions that he changes his own oil and transmission fluid, and frankly, I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't work on Hondas to touch the CVT.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the 1.5 10th gen is running an entirely different CVT considering the 2013-15 CVTs are different from the 16-17s.

I don't race, I plan on running 260-270 very occasionally, but mostly staying around 200-220 for normal driving. Turbo kit has boost control w/ adjustable cutoff. Also comes w/ professional E-tuning from a reliable tuner.
What difference is there to the trans if one is racing or just standing on the gas? Or then what good is a turbo/supercharger if you can never dig into the throttle? You can browse the civicx forums also, there are just as many CVT failures as tuned 1.5T engine failures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What difference is there to the trans if one is racing or just standing on the gas? Or then what good is a turbo/supercharger if you can never dig into the throttle? You can browse the civicx forums also, there are just as many CVT failures as tuned 1.5T engine failures.
Repeated wear. Also you usually don't stand on the gas for 15 mins-several hours straight unlike racing. Racing is pushing a car to the physical limits, stomping on it is just maintaining RPM... (especially with CVT), so it's fun in moderation.
 

·
port & polish everything
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Repeated wear. Also you usually don't stand on the gas for 15 mins-several hours straight unlike racing. Racing is pushing a car to the physical limits, stomping on it is just maintaining RPM... (especially with CVT), so it's fun in moderation.
I have a subscription to Honda R&D journals and went back to double check my understanding. You should think about how a CVT even works. It's continuously "shifting" and yet it never wears out.

The friction between metal V-belt and pulley is boundary friction. The coefficient of friction is affected by roughness of the frictional face and the shear strength of the boundary lubrication oil film, which is formed by lubricants (3) . Also, as these factors change with operating load, changes in the coefficient of friction over time should be factored in. - Honda Technical Review, Oct 2019

The belt and pulley interfaces are exactly sized so the film strength of the CVT fluid can efficiently transfer torque with minimal metal on metal contact. If you increase forces beyond the design strength friction increases, the oil film will likely break down and probably scores or grinds the belt and pullies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hudouc

·
Registered
Joined
·
362 Posts
Good lord. Be useful, or there's really no need to contribute.


Thanks for the input.

I'm lucky enough to have no tamper or emissions testing where I live, so, anything goes. I'm honestly fine spending $4-5k to turbocharge the K24W instead of getting a V6.

I do already plan on adding TEIN Coilovers, 225s or 235s, and an Acura/V6 accord sway bar, as well as 4-pistons in the front. That should be more than enough to compensate. (But wheelspin is always fun)

The supercharger requires me to remove my entire AC, and seems less reliable. The turbo kit installation only requires a few holes to be drilled, and can be removed and turned back to stock if ever needed. Definitely going with Turbo!!
OK, here's a useful question: You asked this 4 days ago. Had an entire extended holiday weekend to get started. How far have you gotten beyond this thread? What parts have you purchased, what vendors have you contacted, what prep work have you done on the car?
 

·
MT or death
Joined
·
445 Posts
I've driven several 9th gen V6 accords and I can't stand the roughness of the shifting and handling. It can't compare with the smoothness of the CVT models.
Lol. This thread is about as believable as the one with the Accord putting itself in both drive and reverse to ram into neighborhood houses.

When someone touts the "smoothness" of a CVT, that tells me they've never even driven another vehicle. OP--you seem to know more than every responder... Why on earth are you asking for other people's opinions?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WiiMaster

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
"R2R kit provides 0.4-0.5 bar of boost enough for 260 flywheel hp, what is acceptable for stock engine, so you don’t need replace engine internals.
One of advantages of Rotrex supercharger is linear boost curve, without sharp spikes inherent for turbos.

Therefore, you will get pretty much mid range power and horizontal torque curve till the rev-limit, without descent featured natural aspirated and turbo engines.
Also linear boost is much better for FWD cars, because of less tires slippage.

And, finally, such kind of boost results less load on engine components what is especially important for auto transmissions."
And the turbo kit states:
"There will be little to no drilling required, and no cutting, denting, banging or bashing anywhere on the car, so it can be returned to stock form quickly and easily!

Different dynos and your final tune will dictate final power numbers, but for MT cars we see between 285-315 whp reliably, while we suggest limiting the power levels to 250-270 whp for the CVT transmissions."

Also, finding a no-accident low mileage manual i4 Coupe in Black from 2013-2015 less than 250 miles away is... almost impossible? And I hate how the V6 drives and handles. Doesn't compare to the i4 CVT. I like what I have now.

As far as the supercharger, it is more reliable but you must remove AC. The linear boost curve is boring however and I would rather have the tunability and customization of the turbo kit. Turbo also has boost control w/ cutoff. I don't plan on running a ~270HP tune all the time. I would rather run 200-220 most of the time with a low cutoff while driving normally, so it's more of an occasional thing, and I don't plan on ever tracking it. It's not like I'm going to be in boost all the time.



Yeah, I think that's a deal breaker... plus linear boost curve is and no tire spin is very.. mundane. I don't have emissions so that shouldn't be an issue though.


He mentions in the video he had it tuned more than once, and that he literally raced his car the night before. He also mentions that he changes his own oil and transmission fluid, and frankly, I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't work on Hondas to touch the CVT.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the 1.5 10th gen is running an entirely different CVT considering the 2013-15 CVTs are different from the 16-17s.

I don't race, I plan on running 260-270 very occasionally, but mostly staying around 200-220 for normal driving. Turbo kit has boost control w/ adjustable cutoff. Also comes w/ professional E-tuning from a reliable tuner.
All those mods and no upgraded cooling for the transmission? The second mod after the air filter should have been an aftermarket transmission cooling upgrade. Live and learn I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Lol. This thread is about as believable as the one with the Accord putting itself in both drive and reverse to ram into neighborhood houses.

When someone touts the "smoothness" of a CVT, that tells me they've never even driven another vehicle. OP--you seem to know more than every responder... Why on earth are you asking for other people's opinions?
Because I don't know everything, and like I already mentioned, if you comprehended, I have driven several V6 9th gen accords -- sedan and coupe. The ride quality is abysmal compared to the CVT. And I'm speaking from my own experience, I made a thread because I wanted opinions. There is quite literally a poll attached to the thread. You posted because... I don't know? You wanted to be an ass?
All those mods and no upgraded cooling for the transmission? The second mod after the air filter should have been an aftermarket transmission cooling upgrade. Live and learn I guess.
I'm not sure I have any clue how to go about that. I'll take a look... but If the CVT gets too hot after 5 minutes of spirited driving then 🤷‍♂️... I said this before but I don't plan on tracking it

OK, here's a useful question: You asked this 4 days ago. Had an entire extended holiday weekend to get started. How far have you gotten beyond this thread? What parts have you purchased, what vendors have you contacted, what prep work have you done on the car?
Bought some Tein Flex Z Coilovers. Next comes Progress rear sway bar. Suspension -> Tires + Wheels -> Axleback -> KTuner -> Turbo -> Actual tune. Still a long way out and things always change especially with fabricated parts. So come back in a few.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top