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I am highly amused when people on forums say the words "LEMON LAW" and have no idea how Lemon Laws work.

The owner of this Accord lives in Illinois, and his car is registered in Illinois, so let's have a look at the Great State of Illinois Lemon Law.

From the Illinois Attorney General webpage:


In order to be covered by the Illinois Lemon Law, a vehicle must:
  • have a nonconformity that both substantially impairs the use , market value or safety of the vehicle and is not repairable by the dealer or manufacturer in at least four attempts for the same repair, or
  • be out of service for a total of 30 or more business days.
The Lemon Law DOES Cover: New Cars (purchased or leased)
Light Trucks and vans under 8,000 pounds
Recreational vehicles (excluding trailers)
Vehicles in their first 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever occurs first
Vehicles purchased in Illinois

The Lemon Law DOES NOT Cover:
Used Cars
Altered or modified vehicles
Motorcycles and boats


So, we can rule out Lemon Law as a remedy.

Here is what the 2020 Honda Accord Owners Manual says on one of the first pages...

Service Diagnostic Recorders
This vehicle is equipped with service-related devices that record information about powertrain performance. The data can be used to verify emissions law requirements and/or help technicians diagnose and solve service problems. It may also be combined with data from other sources for research purposes, but it remains confidential. Some diagnostic and maintenance information is uploaded to Honda upon vehicle start up.


One has to think that the words "but it remains confidential" means "we are not giving you the information contained within the Service Diagnostic Recorder." Alas, I am not a lawyer.

Software End User License Agreement
Your vehicle comes equipped with software, which is governed by the End User License Agreement in Owner’s Manual, and which contains a binding arbitration clause. Please refer to the End User License Agreement for the terms and conditions governing your use of the installed software, as well as the applications, services, functions, and content provided through the software. Your use of the installed software will serve as your consent to the terms and conditions of the End User License Agreement. You may opt out within 30 days of your initial use of the Software by sending a signed, written notice to HONDA at American Honda Motor Co., Inc. Honda Automobile Customer Services Mail Stop 100-5E-8A, 1919 Torrance Blvd. Torrance, CA 90501-2746.
 

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Gearhead Girl 🤟
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If your ECU has not been modified as Honda claims, which it sounds like it hasn't according to you, then I also say hire a lawyer. Honda is probably trying to wiggle out of it because engine replacements are so expensive (and rather uncommon in Hondas), but that's no excuse. Hire a lawyer, good luck, and keep us posted!
 

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I'd be
I have a 2018 Accord Touring 2.0 w/10speed auto that has suffered a catastrophic engine failure at 48,915 miles.
Car basically shut down in traffic and was able to coast into a parking lot luckily.The car was towed to a local dealer for repair. The dealer started to diagnosis and the tech determined a spark plug tip was broke off and with a borescope thru spark plug hole determined the piston was not moving up and down.
American Honda was called in to review and plugged into car to review ECU.
American Honda is claiming that the ECU has been modified and will not repair. Car has been owned by me since new and has only been into Honda when first purchased for an up date on the infotainment screen.The car had a repair done by a reputable body shop for a racoon strike.
All other service has been done by me period. I have never installed any "TUNE " or other aftermarket software on this car.
However American Honda says its in the ECU but will not disclose what it is , when it was added or any other information on the ECU. Honda claims that all that information is proprietary and will not even share with the dealership. The service manager has never experienced this with Honda.
I have spoke with a district rep and that has gone nowhere.
To say that I am frustrated and angry is an understatement. Honda is covering up this engine failure and accusing me of something that I HAVE NEVER DONE. Period I know the consequences with installing aftermarket tunes and never did so I would not void my power train warranty.

At this point I'm not sure where to turn
I'd be LIVID if what you say is complete and accurate.

Your realistic option is to file a claim with the NCDS and hope they side with you. If not, pay for the repair and never buy another Honda.

You're free to hire a lawyer at your expense and get him or her to write a letter to Honda and hope that works, but I'll guarantee you that this will never go to trial. If it did, you and your lawyer would wet your pants when you faced a blitzkrieg from Honda's team of specialized attorneys.
 

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port & polish everything
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Some of the things you could discuss with a lawyer and possibly advise on these avenues.

Loss of engine while driving is likely a safety issue;


Improperly voiding warranty and without cause might be consumer fraud. Possible contacts are state AG and FTC;


"Proprietary information" won't stop the government nor court if they agree it is safety or fraud.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Update on the Accord. I never claimed this was covered any LEMON LAW. Car has had no issues until now.
American Honda is not going to budge without some serious pushback. Weighing legal options. Not getting too much positive feedback so far. Most likely will be pursuing other Government agency's. So much for " Honda Reliability". No matter which way this ends there will be much more to follow.
 

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Update on the Accord. I never claimed this was covered any LEMON LAW. Car has had no issues until now.
American Honda is not going to budge without some serious pushback. Weighing legal options. Not getting too much positive feedback so far. Most likely will be pursuing other Government agency's. So much for " Honda Reliability". No matter which way this ends there will be much more to follow.
Ask yourself if it's really worth all the time, money, and stress only to end up in the same or worse position than you are now. I honestly don't know who is going to help you. No sane attorney will take on Honda and I don't know of any government agency that would take any action against Honda over one unhappy owner. After nearly a dozen new Hondas in about the same amount of time, I finally had too many bad apples myself and moved on. I still enjoy following the brand even if I wouldn't own another one right now. Life's too short to fight a losing battle. Do what makes you happy! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Ask yourself if it's really worth all the time, money, and stress only to end up in the same or worse position than you are now. I honestly don't know who is going to help you. No sane attorney will take on Honda and I don't know of any government agency that would take any action against Honda over one unhappy owner. After nearly a dozen new Hondas in about the same amount of time, I finally had too many bad Apples myself and moved on. I still enjoy following the brand even if I wouldn't own another one right now. Life's too short to fight a losing battle. Do what makes you happy! :)
I agree. But I am not done yet. Weighing all my options.
 

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I agree. But I am not done yet. Weighing all my options.
I'm curious about Honda's response. Would you be willing to snap a photo of the paperwork that Honda gave you saying that they were denying your claim and upload that photo here? I'd like to see what the exact response is- just because I also have a 2.0t Accord.

I was at my dealership last week for something and mentioned your post to the service writer... who was very curious to see the paperwork from your visit- as he hasn't seen Honda refuse to show an owner proof before like you mentioned. He wanted to see the paperwork from the dealership to see exactly how they documented their position/refusal.

Thanks in advance. Uploading an image is pretty simple. I'd cover your name and your VIN, then just snap a photo of the paperwork with your phone. Then upload it to your computer- and then upload to your next post using the insert image button. As a fellow Accord owner, I would appreciate your help.

Thanks,
 

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WTF! There was a fuel pump recall back in May of this year for some Accords I believe. If you took it to the Honda dealership if it was anything like the 9th gen that might've flashed the ECU, but not sure that would even count as "modified" when pulling the ECU info. I remember seeing a post with a Honda dealer cancelling a powertrain warranty on an 18 civic for modified PCM and they even put that it was changed back to factory 150 miles prior to them pulling the info, but that is all the writeup showed. Kind of weird they don't want to disclose anything or when they "show" that it was "modified" to allow you to recall that time period.
 

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Not trying to minimize the issue here - but what is a new longblock from honda? 2500 dollars? So ask yourself is hiring a lawyer @ 100 dollars an hour to work on your behalf for the next 18 months worth it versus just putting a new motor in it
 

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Not trying to minimize the issue here - but what is a new longblock from honda? 2500 dollars? So ask yourself is hiring a lawyer @ 100 dollars an hour to work on your behalf for the next 18 months worth it versus just putting a new motor in it
A new 2.0T engine from Honda is more like $4,000 to $4,700 looking at parts online. The used route would be about $2500, BUT Honda might not install that and would have to go elsewhere. There is also the Honda labor that is probably going to add at LEAST another $1,000 at minimum with how high their shop rates are. Most people don’t just have thousands to throw at a new engine plus labor especially when there should be a warranty that covers repair. Yes a lawyer and fees is going to be excessive as well, but hell I don’t think ANY of us would want to be footing that kind of bill during these times especially if I was certain the car was not modified.

OP should definitely seek that 3rd party review option since that is no cost if Honda won’t budge.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Not trying to minimize the issue here - but what is a new longblock from honda? 2500 dollars? So ask yourself is hiring a lawyer @ 100 dollars an hour to work on your behalf for the next 18 months worth it versus just putting a new motor in it
A new 2.0T engine from Honda is more like $4,000 to $4,700 looking at parts online. The used route would be about $2500, BUT Honda might not install that and would have to go elsewhere. There is also the Honda labor that is probably going to add at LEAST another $1,000 at minimum with how high their shop rates are. Most people don’t just have thousands to throw at a new engine plus labor especially when there should be a warranty that covers repair. Yes a lawyer and fees is going to be excessive as well, but hell I don’t think ANY of us would want to be footing that kind of bill during these times especially if I was certain the car was not modified.
Yes I know. Looked at these options also. Honda wants $12K to install. Worse case right now we buy used and swap out. I have the shop and ability to do it myself...But I don't want too.Nor should I have too. Comes to that much more to follow!! Stay tuned
 

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Yes I know. Looked at these options also. Honda wants $12K to install. Worse case right now we buy used and swap out. I have the shop and ability to do it myself...But I don't want too.Nor should I have too. Comes to that much more to follow!! Stay tuned
WTF! OMFG! 12K! That is 1/3 of the entire car BRAND NEW! Just wow. I would be raising hell at Honda every hour on the hour if I KNOW the car was not modified by anyone. Honda definitely needs to produce some reasoning besides “modified Ecu” as to WHY they are declining to warranty a 12k claim.
 

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Yes I know. Looked at these options also. Honda wants $12K to install. Worse case right now we buy used and swap out. I have the shop and ability to do it myself...But I don't want too.Nor should I have too. Comes to that much more to follow!! Stay tuned
Have you been able to take a picture of the paperwork from Honda denying your claim yet? (Specifically the part where they are refusing to show you the data from the ECU) I can't wait to show the guy at my dealership.
 

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Depending on your state's laws, you might be entitled to recover your lawyer fees if you go that route.

When my '98 Coupe with only ~2K miles started having serious electrical failure problems, Honda denied all requests to fix it. So I filed a claim with American Arbitration Association which handled these cases against Honda back then. They eventually made Honda take the car back and give me a brand new one, though it took 2 years of refusals from Honda. In the end, I got a brand new '00 Coupe and it didn't cost me a dime. I drove the '00 for 170K miles without any issues and sold it to a happy buyer in 2016.

So I'd recommend you start by filing a claim ASAP with National Center for Dispute Settlement (NCDS) that handles these issues against Honda now, as @greg1c mentioned in post #6. Maybe just filing a claim will be enough to get Honda to cooperate.

Don't know NCDS rules, but when I used the Arbitration Assoc, the rule was I could still hire a lawyer and file suit against Honda if the arbitrator ruled against me, but Honda could not take any further action if they lost, other than to comply with whatever decisions were made and accepted by me.
 
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