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Bigdog
2019 Accord Hybrid
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19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Had my hybrid transmission serviced today at dealer and was surprised to see them using a different fluid then Honda AND adding a conditioner. It’s called a premium trans service with conditioner 158$ 98 parts 60 labor. Wanted to get thoughts about the conditioner added AND using other then Honda DW-1 fluid. I was told by the service manager/scheduler THAT doing this type of service at the dealer with the conditioner came with some kind of 5000$ benefit should I run into problems later?? This struck me as odd and has certainly got me thinking 🤔. I have always serviced my older accords trans with the R&R and Honda DW1 Fluid but wasn’t sure about this newer hybrid trans so had them do the first one. Please see my pictures of the fluid used and conditioner and please chime in with ANY thoughts, comments or your personal experience with this. Thanks in advance. Regards, Bigdog
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VCM DELETE
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This is the 1st time I have ever seen a Honda dealer using non Honda fluid...also putting a conditioner in it (never seen that done EVER)
Did you have them sign something...as hearsay wont do squat when they are quoting the price of a new transmission after that one fails.
 
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Interesting because I have yet to hear about the hybrids having any transmission problems whatsoever (please don't turn this into another ridiculous "well it doesn't have a tranny debate") that would cause them to add the extra protection. There's nothing wrong with this type of additive. I'm more familiar with different companies versions but basically all the same. Usually they are used in race or higher hp/heat applications. They definitely help reduce friction and therefore temps ect and work.
The question at hand here is how much extra did the dealership charge for a $15-20 can of additive compared to the non premium service.
 

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Gearhead Girl 🤟
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1,427 Posts
Honda dealers are only supposed to use genuine OEM Honda parts and fluids I believe. I would keep that receipt as proof in case you have a problem later.
 

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Bigdog
2019 Accord Hybrid
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19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I
Interesting because I have yet to hear about the hybrids having any transmission problems whatsoever (please don't turn this into another ridiculous "well it doesn't have a tranny debate") that would cause them to add the extra protection. There's nothing wrong with this type of additive. I'm more familiar with different companies versions but basically all the same. Usually they are used in race or higher hp/heat applications. They definitely help reduce friction and therefore temps ect and work.
The question at hand here is how much extra did the dealership charge for a $15-20 can of additive compared to the non premium service.
I wasn’t informed ahead of time of a premium vrs non premium type of service. It only came up in conversation with the parts guys as I questioned whether Honda DW-1 was a FULL synthetic product as well that they were mixing it with on the partial change. I never got the price diff on service just that the MAG1 fluid was like 18$ a quart compared to 12$ for the OEM??
Anyways there’s no argument on my part about keeping fluid clean! But it did surprise me using in aftermarket fluid along with conditioner plus I was charged for 4 quarts of the MAG1 and the bottle of conditioner 12 oz I’m guessing on the drain and refill. Which according to the manual is 2.3 quarts 😳 question is where’d they put it? = not happy 😞. BTW this fluid is available on Amazon for 6$ a quart shipped 😩. Take a look at the receipt where they show it at 27$ but sell it to me for 18$. I think “stealer” rather then “dealer” certainly applies here and for this customer anyway will NEVER happen again.
 

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Elvira
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3,875 Posts
@bigdog777

DELETED ORIGINAL REPLY

DW-1 is called out for the 2019 Accord Hybrid in the OM.

Odd that it uses same ATF as the 9th gen geared auto trans.

"Never mind" - Emily Litella
 

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Bigdog
2019 Accord Hybrid
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19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@bigdog777

Every site I visit and enter 2019 Accord Hybrid comes back with CVT as the transmission. If they didn't use the HFC? fluid I don't know what'll happen.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but Edmunds, Kelly Blue book, etc ALL state CVT Hybrid.


I really think you should check it out since Mag1.com specifically has CVT fluid and I don't see that on the box of fluid they used. I think they put the wrong fluid in.

If you can prove me wrong about there being a CVT trans in this model hybrid, do so.

Now I find Car and Driver stating there is a single speed direct drive "trans"

What does the OM state is the fluid to use? ATF, DW-1, Hcf-2
E-CVT DW-1

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Honda dealers are only supposed to use genuine OEM Honda parts and fluids I believe. I would keep that receipt as proof in case you have a problem later.
Dealerships for all manufacturers are supposed to use parts and fluids approved by Honda/manufacturer. Honda doesn't make everything. No manufacturer does. That's why they have lists of approved oe and oem items. Furthermore a common conditioning product isn't causing some sort of catastrophic failure and if it did the car is under warranty.

I wasn’t informed ahead of time of a premium vrs non premium type of service. It only came up in conversation with the parts guys as I questioned whether Honda DW-1 was a FULL synthetic product as well that they were mixing it with on the partial change. I never got the price diff on service just that the MAG1 fluid was like 18$ a quart compared to 12$ for the OEM??
Anyways there’s no argument on my part about keeping fluid clean! But it did surprise me using in aftermarket conditioner plus I was charged for 4 quarts of the MAG1 and the bottle of conditioner 12 oz I’m guessing on the drain and refill.
I find that fishy is they didn't give you the option originally to choose from. Im not concerned about the product itself, again BG Amsoil and many other make similar products that work well. I find it odd you weren't informed beforehand.

@bigdog777

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DW-1 is called out for the 2019 Accord Hybrid in the OM.

Odd that it uses same ATF as the 9th gen geared auto trans.

"Never mind" - Emily Litella
Long story short before your edit but yes your wrong. It's simply called and e-cvt and there are numerous threads here about how the transmission on the hybrids work. The best is to google the how it works guy and watch the 7min video. Albeit from the 9th gen, it's the same as the 10th. But like I said earlier not the the purpose of this thread so please don't get into it here.
 

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Had my hybrid transmission serviced today at dealer and was surprised to see them using a different fluid then Honda AND adding a conditioner.
Simple: The dealer pays less for MAG 1 ATF than they do for Honda DW-1 so they make more profit. They have absolutely no concern with what's best for your transmission. The conditioner is an unnecessary and unapproved additive that further increases dealer profit.

Dealerships are independently-owned franchises. They are not owned by Honda. They can sell any brand of fluid they like; however, they're liable for any damage caused by non-Honda fluids. Typically, Honda dealers will use bulk engine oil, but Honda-branded transmission fluid and coolant.

Perhaps you should show your dealer page 588 of the Owner's Manual that states:

NOTICE
Do not mix Honda ATF DW-1 with other
transmission fluids.

Using a transmission fluid other than Honda ATF
DW-1 may adversely affect the operation and
durability of your vehicle’s transmission, and damage
the transmission.
Any damage caused by using a transmission fluid that
is not equivalent to Honda ATF DW-1 is not covered
by Honda’s new vehicle limited warranty.

Regarding MAG 1 ATF, it's a "one-size-fits-most" product like Valvoline MaxLife ATF and some others that does not meet the requirements of DW-1 and is not approved by Honda. The manufacturer of the product self-proclaims that it's "suitable for use" in DW-1 applications - that's not the same as "equivalent to" or "approved by Honda".

Will this third-party fluid and conditioner work without damaging the transmission? Probably - at least through the warranty period after which it becomes your problem. :)

If you have an hour to learn, I recommend this video by Professor John Kelly at Weber State University that discusses "multi-vehicle" ATF.

 

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Bigdog
2019 Accord Hybrid
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19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Simple: The dealer pays less for MAG 1 ATF than they do for Honda DW-1 so they make more profit. They have absolutely no concern with what's best for your transmission. The conditioner is an unnecessary and unapproved additive that further increases dealer profit.

Dealerships are independently-owned franchises. They are not owned by Honda. They can sell any brand of fluid they like; however, they're liable for any damaged caused by non-Honda fluids. Typically, Honda dealers will use bulk engine oil, but Honda-branded transmission fluid and coolant.

Perhaps you should show your dealer page 588 of the Owner's Manual that states:

NOTICE
Do not mix Honda ATF DW-1 with other
transmission fluids.

Using a transmission fluid other than Honda ATF
DW-1 may adversely affect the operation and
durability of your vehicle’s transmission, and damage
the transmission.
Any damage caused by using a transmission fluid that
is not equivalent to Honda ATF DW-1 is not covered
by Honda’s new vehicle limited warranty.

Regarding MAG 1 ATF, it's a "one-size-fits-most" product like Valvoline MaxLife ATF and some others that does not meet the requirements of DW-1 and is not approved by Honda. The manufacturer of the product self-proclaims that it's "suitable for use" in DW-1 applications - that's not the same as "equivalent to" or "approved by Honda".
😳 I did read that 588 page and again was very surprised that this was happening AT an actual Honda dealer! Furthermore , had I done it myself ( and sure looks like I should have) I would have used nothing but the OEM DW-1 without the additive. That’s why I’m so concerned about this. Man what a bummer! Wanted to take the best care of this new vehicle which I’ve been fairly happy with so far... we’ll see I guess and not sure where to go from here. Thanks to all commenting I do appreciate the input.
 

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Turbo lag
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2,504 Posts
I never got the price diff on service just that the MAG1 fluid was like 18$ a quart compared to 12$ for the OEM??
Simple: The dealer pays less for MAG 1 ATF than they do for Honda DW-1 so they make more profit.
I actually just picked up a few quarts of DW-1 for both of my Accords at my local dealership for $8.48 a quart. I can't imagine that the MAG1 is that much cheaper for the dealership to risk themselves to potential issues in the future.
 

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Bigdog
2019 Accord Hybrid
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19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Update: took the car back to the stealer and had a conversation with the service manager asking why I was not informed or even given options on the trans service? Told him it was not my intention or did I ever think a actual Honda dealer would use anything but OEM parts and fluids especially when still under warranty. Long story short they serviced again twice! With the bulk DW-1 aka Z1
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I feel better but believe Bigdog might now be known as “Karen” at least at that shop. 😂
 

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Super Moderator
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3,613 Posts
The Accord Hybrid doesn't have a "transmission" so to speak. It is driven primarily by the electric traction motor.

The engine is used as a generator in most driving until you need full power or the car is at higher highway speeds where a wet clutch joins the engine directly to the wheels. It's the exact same system the CRV hybrid uses, save the power take off for the rear axle in the CRV.

Using a "universal" trans fluid in it, for whatever part of the drivetrain may take it, is WRONG. There is no such thing as universal fluids.

I'd be back at that dealer, asking what exactly was serviced? Why did they use UNAPPROVED fluids and additives which, if you need warranty work on the hybrid drivetrain may have just voided your warranty. I'd insist, 1, that the car be completely restored to factory specs, with factory fluid. 2, a letter, receipt or something similar stating IN WRITING that what they did won't affect any issues with your warranty.
 
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Bigdog
2019 Accord Hybrid
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19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi, wonder how many miles on your vehicle when it required this transmission fluid change?
46K but I believe the spec is 30K and since I bought it used and could not verify that it been done. (sometimes you can via the vin number with local dealer it might have been serviced at) I decided to do it.
 

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Super Moderator
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1,820 Posts
...I believe the spec is 30K...
Under normal conditions, the spec is when code 3 appears on the Maintenance Minder - not at a specific distance.

The Owner's Manual states: "Driving in mountainous areas at very low vehicle speeds results in higher transmission temperatures. This requires transmission fluid changes more frequently than recommended by the Maintenance Minder. If you regularly drive your vehicle under these conditions, have the transmission fluid changed at 47,500 miles (76,000 kilometers) or 3 years."

This implies that the normal service interval may be around 95,000 miles since severe intervals are usually half as long as normal intervals.
 

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Registered
2020 Accord Hybrid EX-L
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558 Posts
Under normal conditions, the spec is when code 3 appears on the Maintenance Minder - not at a specific distance.

The Owner's Manual states: "Driving in mountainous areas at very low vehicle speeds results in higher transmission temperatures. This requires transmission fluid changes more frequently than recommended by the Maintenance Minder. If you regularly drive your vehicle under these conditions, have the transmission fluid changed at 47,500 miles (76,000 kilometers) or 3 years."

This implies that the normal service interval may be around 95,000 miles since severe intervals are usually half as long as normal intervals.
95k sounds too optimistic IMO. There are many moving parts inside the e-CVT case.

I'm driving mostly highway and accumulating 3k miles per month, but I would choose to do ATF change at ~60k.
 

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Super Moderator
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There are many moving parts inside the e-CVT case.
But not nearly as many as in a CVT or multi-speed automatic transmission. The eCVT (which isn't actually CVT) has no torque converter and only one clutch instead of multiple clutches and brakes, so there's nowhere near as much heat, pressure, and wear occurring in the Accord Hybrid's transmission. Of course, changing the fluid prematurely certainly won't harm the vehicle. :)
 
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