Drive Accord Honda Forums banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey All,

I don't usually post anything on forums - don't do the Facebook or social media thing either. But I wanted to post my 6-month project I'm starting on the notorious oil burning issue we all know of. I'm not looking for much in feedback or criticism, I just want to share what I've done and plan on doing.
In 2020 I bought a 09 Accord with 185k on it - great shape, strong engine for $2500 bucks. The seller did mention the oil burning issue and used a quart every 1k. Great, I can deal with that. After we made the deal I found out the car was a repo - I mention that because I'm guessing it has something to do with the oil control rings being carboned up (lack of maintenance). This is our 5th Honda so I'm aware of these issues.
In the last 2 years I replaced the valve cover gasket because that was leaking a bit, but I could always smell burning oil after the car was parked in the garage - even after the new gasket. The car just smells "hot" after running - see later in the post.
I check the oil weekly and add the correct amount - keeping track of the exact mileage and amount added I've consistently been using a quart every 900 miles. This winter though, the oil usage went up to a quart every 450 or so - so I started to check over the engine more. Keep in mind I live in Wisconsin so we always warm up our cars 10 minutes or so before we get going - so there's lots of idling time too.
Checking over the engine I could see leakage on the rear bottom portion of the engine, and minor drips on the cardboard I put in the garage. I thought of the VTEC area right away, but it wasn't from that area, turns out it's the oil filter assembly housing that's leaking. Earlier I did see a drip on the drain plug and thought it was loose or from the new crush washer I put on - it wasn't, it was coming from higher up.
The drip and higher usage went up after the last oil change in the fall - well, I just realized I was using OW-20 instead of 5W-20. My mistake - so I think that may have caused the oil filter housing to leak more oil, I never had drips on the floor before, but like I said earlier the engine always smelled "hot" after running. I think the smaller amount of oil that was leaking and causing the odor was being "burned off" from the hot contact with the oil pan, and possibly dripping onto the exhaust pipe below the manifold while driving.
This last weekend I attempted to change the gaskets on the oil filter assembly housing, but the top bolt is next to impossible to remove because you can't get leverage on it. I did carefully tighten them a bit - don't know if that will help, but I didn't want to admit complete defeat. I need to get the car higher up on the floor and I think I can do it, if not I'll go to the stealership and pay them $300 bucks to do it.
Which leads me to the new 3/8ths torque wrench I just bought for the job, have a 1/2 one, but this was a good excuse to buy a new tool! Anyway, I thought I'd torque the previous job on the valve cover gasket job - 14lbs - I had done it by "guessing" with a 1/4 drive 6-inch wrench, and I know you get close to 15lbs without cranking on it. So I put a 1/4 socket on the 3/8 wrench - don't do it - I ended up slowly breaking the bolts - sick feeling when you're trying to torque and you get that feeling of the bolt slowly breaking. Lesson learned and another job down the road - should be easy to remove though, have a 1/4 of the bolt remaining, plus I might get to use my left-handed drill bits - yes, there are such a thing, very handy to have.

OK, on to my project and what I've done for the oil usage:

What I've done:
I've done 3 piston soaks in the last year or so and haven't had any results. I don't blame the products at all, I got a ton of carbon out of the combustion chamber. The issue I've realized is that the soak liquid doesn't get past the top compression rings, so it's not attacking the problem of getting the carbon off of the oil control rings.
I've done a soak with Berryman's B12, got a lot of carbon out, but the liquid (2oz.) is exactly what I remove.
I've also done 2 soaks with GM's newer top engine cleaner (part # 19355198). Same results, the fluid gets a bunch of carbon out but it's still the same amount that I poured in. 2oz's at a time and 1 soak was overnight (about 12 hours) and the other was for 2 hours.
I’ve tried Seafoam too as a soak – gets carbon out but still doesn’t get past the rings.

Like I said, all 3 get carbon out, but none get past the rings – all 3 are very thin liquids too.

For those out there trying a soak, I'd highly suggest drawing out the fluid and not relying on the fluid getting pushed out of the spark plug hole while cranking the starter. It's still a lot of pressure on the rods to push that fluid out that quickly - just my thoughts. I like drawing the fluid out because you can tell how much fluid (if any) made it past the rings. By forcing it out you're also running the risk of getting some in your intake or exhaust.


Adding products to the crankcase:



I added a 32oz bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil on the last oil change and didn’t see any results with oil usage.



I just used a 12oz bottle of ZMAX Engine Formula about a month ago and didn’t see any results with that either. It was a purple liquid in a scientific looking beaker from Wal-Mart. Guessing it was a waste of money.



My new plan:



Immediately prior to changing the oil last weekend, I used a product called BG 109 that I’ve been watching and following online. Per the instructions I added a can to a hot engine and let work for 20 minutes at 2000rpm. I then drained the oil, let it sit for 20 minutes to get everything out. I then used compressed air (first time I’ve ever done this) on the dipstick tube at pretty low pressure to get everything out. I have to say I was surprised at how much oil came out (I’d say at least a half a cup if not a full cup). Make sure the filter is still on if you do this.

BG109 is some potent stuff, I could visually tell there was much more carbon in the drain oil, plus you can really smell it. It’s about 20-25 bucks for a 11pz can though, I did get a 4 pack on Amazon for $75. We’ll see I guess, all of the other forums and online videos make it look like some pretty serious stuff.

I’m going to change out the oil and filter every month regardless of mileage for the next 6 months. Prior to changing I’m going to run the BG109 and give it a try. I know it may seem a waste of oil, but I want to give it a try – have the money and time – guessing it should run about $500. I want this oil usage fixed.

I also bought a gallon of a product called PistonKleen right from the manufacturer for $40 buck or so. Once the weather warms up I’ll do some soaks with the stuff.

I also plan on trying a soak with Kreen and Chem Dip Carb Cleaner.

I also have a bottle of the old GM cleaner (AC Delco X66P part 88861803) for $85 on ebay. I may try it down the road, but I’m somewhat leary because of GM’s tech bulletin on using the product. They say it should soak only from 2.5 hours to no more than 3.5 hours, don’t know what it will do to the metal – we’ll see how the other soaks work first.





2022 Feb 19th – mileage 201,776


I used Mobil 1 High Mileage Full Synthetic 5W-20 with a Mobil Extended Filter M1-110A. I also added a quart of Rislone along with 5oz of Seafoam, for a total of 4.75 quarts which brings it right to the top of the fill dot on the dipstick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
Thanks for sharing. Maybe I'm wrong for thinking this, but if all those piston soaks didn't work I'm not sure what will other than new rings.

I have heard of success stories with soaks, but I don't recall them needing that many treatments.
 

·
Registered
2010 Honda Accord (LX)
Joined
·
993 Posts
You have to do piston soaks carefully. If you don't keep the level of fluid in the cylinder topped up then the fluid will just leak into the oil pan rather than sit there and help clean up the rings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: internalaudit

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
I read about but never tried bg109. I have tried Seafoam and Liqui Moly in the crankcase and the oil came out very dirty with both products.

I also have done piston soaks with Seafoam. Oddly, some pistons held the liquid overnight and some drained the liquid down. Good Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you for the replies. I guess I should clarify about the soaks. A piston soak is attempting to loosen up the oil control ring that everyone has a problem with. My point is that if the fluid isn't getting past the compression rings you need to try from the bottom up (meaning the crankcase) because the soak isn't touching the oil control rings. I'd be more optimistic with soaks if the fluid drained down into the crankcase, then I'd do longer soaks and keep adding fluid if it drained down.
 

·
8th Gen Believer
Joined
·
4,647 Posts
Congrats on the project! You certainly don't give up easily! This will help a lot of members, thanks for posting in such detail.
 

·
Registered
2010 Honda Accord (LX)
Joined
·
993 Posts
Generally if the fluid is not draining into the crankcase it means the rings in those cylinders are not stuck and causing the problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: internalaudit

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Glad to share with everyone. Yes, it could be the valve guides, but I'm kind of doubting that because there is no smoke whatsoever on start up. Usually with valve guide issues the oil seeps into the cylinder while sitting and you have white smoke on start up for a minutes. I do see carbon residue from the tailpipe on the floor though.
I just checked the oil after one week, and in 250 miles I'd say it's down about 6 ounces, which is an improvement, but I don't want to celebrate yet. That's a pretty small time period, time will tell over the next few months. And considering the surface area of the pan (about a square foot or less), 6oz is pretty hard to gauge, but past history on the dipstick I've come to know well seems like a good estimate.
At least before though I'd be down a half a quart in 250 miles. Another week will give me a better estimate.
I ran the BG109 last weekend in all 3 Honda's we have (09 Accord 201k, 15 CRV 146k, 15 Civic 172k) and will be ripping apart the oil filters soon to see what was left behind. Both my 15's were bought new and have had OW-20 full synthetic the whole time, no oil usage at all in either of them.
 

·
Registered
2008 Accord I4 EX.
Joined
·
304 Posts
I bought my 2008 Accord EX with 90k miles and now I'm at 180k after 5 years. This is my 6th Accord and I had never heard of oil consumption before this.
I've tried two soaks and a couple of top cleaners and conclusion is that I'm gonna live with 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles. This sucks but it cant be fixed unless we open the engine and replace the rings.
I've also replaced the upper valve gasket and thr oil filter assembly gasket and I also live in Wisconsin now. This oil consumption is not going away ya'll.
 

·
Registered
08 EXL & 10 LX-P
Joined
·
166 Posts
Time for an Italian tune up. Go and drive it like you stole it for a couple of hours.
My son has tried that many times, no luck but my son had fun.

We are trying the BMW top end cleaner this month, rumored to be the same formula as the GM stuff that is now almost impossible to get
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Uncle Buck, I admire your tenacity.
I've had great success opening filters with a good stout hand can opener. You just open the filter as you would a can of soup. It opens clean and doesn't add metal into the filter. If you have a sturdy can opener at home you probably shouldn't let the wife see you opening the filter. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
My son has tried that many times, no luck but my son had fun.

We are trying the BMW top end cleaner this month, rumored to be the same formula as the GM stuff that is now almost impossible to get
Let us know how that works out. I've heard too the BMW stuff is the same, but that's the accuracy of the innerwebby though. It would be great if we could solve this problem.

Uncle Buck, I admire your tenacity.
I've had great success opening filters with a good stout hand can opener. You just open the filter as you would a can of soup. It opens clean and doesn't add metal into the filter. If you have a sturdy can opener at home you probably shouldn't let the wife see you opening the filter. ;)
I tried but the K&N oil filter was pretty tough, cut it open with a tin snips and didn't find much. Wrecked a turkey baster a few years ago filling the dual pump fluid on the rear transaxle on our CRV though. Bought a good pump that's all set to do the job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just ripped apart the used oil filter from the Accord. It took me a while because it was a K&N and the outer shell was a lot thicker than I thought it would be. Finally got to the filter media and it was pitch black with carbon, no chunks of carbon though, and it stunk a bunch from the BG-109 EPR I ran through on the last change. I'm not posting pics because there wasn't anything useful, just dark from the carbon. It was a pain to take apart the media because K&N has a plastic ring on both ends of the filter that has to be broken up (the media is welded into the plastic), their filters are pretty well made, don't know how good the media is as far as microns, but it was definitely doing it's job.

I bought my 2008 Accord EX with 90k miles and now I'm at 180k after 5 years. This is my 6th Accord and I had never heard of oil consumption before this.
I've tried two soaks and a couple of top cleaners and conclusion is that I'm gonna live with 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles. This sucks but it cant be fixed unless we open the engine and replace the rings.
I've also replaced the upper valve gasket and thr oil filter assembly gasket and I also live in Wisconsin now. This oil consumption is not going away ya'll.
Pindi, I tend to agree, but at least I want to give it a try over the long haul and see what happens. I don't think there's a one-time silver bullet that takes care of it. I know there's the post from several years ago from the old version of the GM cleaner that said he solved it, maybe true, but I don't really see anyone having success after that from a one-shot deal. I've been through a ton of forums - Honda and a bunch of others. That's why I'm doing the 6 month deal.
BG has a treatment that only dealers of their product can use, it's like 600 bucks though - can't bite on that one. I've seen it on Amazon from one dealer for the high 300's for the whole kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Scotty Kilmer has mentioned a possible two pack solution from ATS Chemicals, 505CRO and 505CRF.

Anyone ever use this?



Not yet, I have it on my list to try. It's currently not available from the manufacturer though. I liked watching Scotty, but lost a little respect when he was adding oil with a horribly dirty funnel. He's a good guy though - very animated.
 

·
Registered
2010 Honda Accord (LX)
Joined
·
993 Posts
It's Scotty Kilmer, so I'd probably take the advice with all the salt in the ocean.
 
  • Like
Reactions: internalaudit

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well, not good news to report today. I added 40oz (maybe a slight overfill) in 538 miles (Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W-20), which comes out to a quart every 430 miles. Not good at all, no improvement. Dot to dot on the dipstick looks like it's exactly 40oz, maybe a tad bit under that amount, a full quart didn't do it though.
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top