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18 Posts
Hey All,
I don't usually post anything on forums - don't do the Facebook or social media thing either. But I wanted to post my 6-month project I'm starting on the notorious oil burning issue we all know of. I'm not looking for much in feedback or criticism, I just want to share what I've done and plan on doing.
In 2020 I bought a 09 Accord with 185k on it - great shape, strong engine for $2500 bucks. The seller did mention the oil burning issue and used a quart every 1k. Great, I can deal with that. After we made the deal I found out the car was a repo - I mention that because I'm guessing it has something to do with the oil control rings being carboned up (lack of maintenance). This is our 5th Honda so I'm aware of these issues.
In the last 2 years I replaced the valve cover gasket because that was leaking a bit, but I could always smell burning oil after the car was parked in the garage - even after the new gasket. The car just smells "hot" after running - see later in the post.
I check the oil weekly and add the correct amount - keeping track of the exact mileage and amount added I've consistently been using a quart every 900 miles. This winter though, the oil usage went up to a quart every 450 or so - so I started to check over the engine more. Keep in mind I live in Wisconsin so we always warm up our cars 10 minutes or so before we get going - so there's lots of idling time too.
Checking over the engine I could see leakage on the rear bottom portion of the engine, and minor drips on the cardboard I put in the garage. I thought of the VTEC area right away, but it wasn't from that area, turns out it's the oil filter assembly housing that's leaking. Earlier I did see a drip on the drain plug and thought it was loose or from the new crush washer I put on - it wasn't, it was coming from higher up.
The drip and higher usage went up after the last oil change in the fall - well, I just realized I was using OW-20 instead of 5W-20. My mistake - so I think that may have caused the oil filter housing to leak more oil, I never had drips on the floor before, but like I said earlier the engine always smelled "hot" after running. I think the smaller amount of oil that was leaking and causing the odor was being "burned off" from the hot contact with the oil pan, and possibly dripping onto the exhaust pipe below the manifold while driving.
This last weekend I attempted to change the gaskets on the oil filter assembly housing, but the top bolt is next to impossible to remove because you can't get leverage on it. I did carefully tighten them a bit - don't know if that will help, but I didn't want to admit complete defeat. I need to get the car higher up on the floor and I think I can do it, if not I'll go to the stealership and pay them $300 bucks to do it.
Which leads me to the new 3/8ths torque wrench I just bought for the job, have a 1/2 one, but this was a good excuse to buy a new tool! Anyway, I thought I'd torque the previous job on the valve cover gasket job - 14lbs - I had done it by "guessing" with a 1/4 drive 6-inch wrench, and I know you get close to 15lbs without cranking on it. So I put a 1/4 socket on the 3/8 wrench - don't do it - I ended up slowly breaking the bolts - sick feeling when you're trying to torque and you get that feeling of the bolt slowly breaking. Lesson learned and another job down the road - should be easy to remove though, have a 1/4 of the bolt remaining, plus I might get to use my left-handed drill bits - yes, there are such a thing, very handy to have.
OK, on to my project and what I've done for the oil usage:
What I've done:
I've done 3 piston soaks in the last year or so and haven't had any results. I don't blame the products at all, I got a ton of carbon out of the combustion chamber. The issue I've realized is that the soak liquid doesn't get past the top compression rings, so it's not attacking the problem of getting the carbon off of the oil control rings.
I've done a soak with Berryman's B12, got a lot of carbon out, but the liquid (2oz.) is exactly what I remove.
I've also done 2 soaks with GM's newer top engine cleaner (part # 19355198). Same results, the fluid gets a bunch of carbon out but it's still the same amount that I poured in. 2oz's at a time and 1 soak was overnight (about 12 hours) and the other was for 2 hours.
I’ve tried Seafoam too as a soak – gets carbon out but still doesn’t get past the rings.
Like I said, all 3 get carbon out, but none get past the rings – all 3 are very thin liquids too.
For those out there trying a soak, I'd highly suggest drawing out the fluid and not relying on the fluid getting pushed out of the spark plug hole while cranking the starter. It's still a lot of pressure on the rods to push that fluid out that quickly - just my thoughts. I like drawing the fluid out because you can tell how much fluid (if any) made it past the rings. By forcing it out you're also running the risk of getting some in your intake or exhaust.
Adding products to the crankcase:
I added a 32oz bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil on the last oil change and didn’t see any results with oil usage.
I just used a 12oz bottle of ZMAX Engine Formula about a month ago and didn’t see any results with that either. It was a purple liquid in a scientific looking beaker from Wal-Mart. Guessing it was a waste of money.
My new plan:
Immediately prior to changing the oil last weekend, I used a product called BG 109 that I’ve been watching and following online. Per the instructions I added a can to a hot engine and let work for 20 minutes at 2000rpm. I then drained the oil, let it sit for 20 minutes to get everything out. I then used compressed air (first time I’ve ever done this) on the dipstick tube at pretty low pressure to get everything out. I have to say I was surprised at how much oil came out (I’d say at least a half a cup if not a full cup). Make sure the filter is still on if you do this.
BG109 is some potent stuff, I could visually tell there was much more carbon in the drain oil, plus you can really smell it. It’s about 20-25 bucks for a 11pz can though, I did get a 4 pack on Amazon for $75. We’ll see I guess, all of the other forums and online videos make it look like some pretty serious stuff.
I’m going to change out the oil and filter every month regardless of mileage for the next 6 months. Prior to changing I’m going to run the BG109 and give it a try. I know it may seem a waste of oil, but I want to give it a try – have the money and time – guessing it should run about $500. I want this oil usage fixed.
I also bought a gallon of a product called PistonKleen right from the manufacturer for $40 buck or so. Once the weather warms up I’ll do some soaks with the stuff.
I also plan on trying a soak with Kreen and Chem Dip Carb Cleaner.
I also have a bottle of the old GM cleaner (AC Delco X66P part 88861803) for $85 on ebay. I may try it down the road, but I’m somewhat leary because of GM’s tech bulletin on using the product. They say it should soak only from 2.5 hours to no more than 3.5 hours, don’t know what it will do to the metal – we’ll see how the other soaks work first.
2022 Feb 19th – mileage 201,776
I used Mobil 1 High Mileage Full Synthetic 5W-20 with a Mobil Extended Filter M1-110A. I also added a quart of Rislone along with 5oz of Seafoam, for a total of 4.75 quarts which brings it right to the top of the fill dot on the dipstick.
I don't usually post anything on forums - don't do the Facebook or social media thing either. But I wanted to post my 6-month project I'm starting on the notorious oil burning issue we all know of. I'm not looking for much in feedback or criticism, I just want to share what I've done and plan on doing.
In 2020 I bought a 09 Accord with 185k on it - great shape, strong engine for $2500 bucks. The seller did mention the oil burning issue and used a quart every 1k. Great, I can deal with that. After we made the deal I found out the car was a repo - I mention that because I'm guessing it has something to do with the oil control rings being carboned up (lack of maintenance). This is our 5th Honda so I'm aware of these issues.
In the last 2 years I replaced the valve cover gasket because that was leaking a bit, but I could always smell burning oil after the car was parked in the garage - even after the new gasket. The car just smells "hot" after running - see later in the post.
I check the oil weekly and add the correct amount - keeping track of the exact mileage and amount added I've consistently been using a quart every 900 miles. This winter though, the oil usage went up to a quart every 450 or so - so I started to check over the engine more. Keep in mind I live in Wisconsin so we always warm up our cars 10 minutes or so before we get going - so there's lots of idling time too.
Checking over the engine I could see leakage on the rear bottom portion of the engine, and minor drips on the cardboard I put in the garage. I thought of the VTEC area right away, but it wasn't from that area, turns out it's the oil filter assembly housing that's leaking. Earlier I did see a drip on the drain plug and thought it was loose or from the new crush washer I put on - it wasn't, it was coming from higher up.
The drip and higher usage went up after the last oil change in the fall - well, I just realized I was using OW-20 instead of 5W-20. My mistake - so I think that may have caused the oil filter housing to leak more oil, I never had drips on the floor before, but like I said earlier the engine always smelled "hot" after running. I think the smaller amount of oil that was leaking and causing the odor was being "burned off" from the hot contact with the oil pan, and possibly dripping onto the exhaust pipe below the manifold while driving.
This last weekend I attempted to change the gaskets on the oil filter assembly housing, but the top bolt is next to impossible to remove because you can't get leverage on it. I did carefully tighten them a bit - don't know if that will help, but I didn't want to admit complete defeat. I need to get the car higher up on the floor and I think I can do it, if not I'll go to the stealership and pay them $300 bucks to do it.
Which leads me to the new 3/8ths torque wrench I just bought for the job, have a 1/2 one, but this was a good excuse to buy a new tool! Anyway, I thought I'd torque the previous job on the valve cover gasket job - 14lbs - I had done it by "guessing" with a 1/4 drive 6-inch wrench, and I know you get close to 15lbs without cranking on it. So I put a 1/4 socket on the 3/8 wrench - don't do it - I ended up slowly breaking the bolts - sick feeling when you're trying to torque and you get that feeling of the bolt slowly breaking. Lesson learned and another job down the road - should be easy to remove though, have a 1/4 of the bolt remaining, plus I might get to use my left-handed drill bits - yes, there are such a thing, very handy to have.
OK, on to my project and what I've done for the oil usage:
What I've done:
I've done 3 piston soaks in the last year or so and haven't had any results. I don't blame the products at all, I got a ton of carbon out of the combustion chamber. The issue I've realized is that the soak liquid doesn't get past the top compression rings, so it's not attacking the problem of getting the carbon off of the oil control rings.
I've done a soak with Berryman's B12, got a lot of carbon out, but the liquid (2oz.) is exactly what I remove.
I've also done 2 soaks with GM's newer top engine cleaner (part # 19355198). Same results, the fluid gets a bunch of carbon out but it's still the same amount that I poured in. 2oz's at a time and 1 soak was overnight (about 12 hours) and the other was for 2 hours.
I’ve tried Seafoam too as a soak – gets carbon out but still doesn’t get past the rings.
Like I said, all 3 get carbon out, but none get past the rings – all 3 are very thin liquids too.
For those out there trying a soak, I'd highly suggest drawing out the fluid and not relying on the fluid getting pushed out of the spark plug hole while cranking the starter. It's still a lot of pressure on the rods to push that fluid out that quickly - just my thoughts. I like drawing the fluid out because you can tell how much fluid (if any) made it past the rings. By forcing it out you're also running the risk of getting some in your intake or exhaust.
Adding products to the crankcase:
I added a 32oz bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil on the last oil change and didn’t see any results with oil usage.
I just used a 12oz bottle of ZMAX Engine Formula about a month ago and didn’t see any results with that either. It was a purple liquid in a scientific looking beaker from Wal-Mart. Guessing it was a waste of money.
My new plan:
Immediately prior to changing the oil last weekend, I used a product called BG 109 that I’ve been watching and following online. Per the instructions I added a can to a hot engine and let work for 20 minutes at 2000rpm. I then drained the oil, let it sit for 20 minutes to get everything out. I then used compressed air (first time I’ve ever done this) on the dipstick tube at pretty low pressure to get everything out. I have to say I was surprised at how much oil came out (I’d say at least a half a cup if not a full cup). Make sure the filter is still on if you do this.
BG109 is some potent stuff, I could visually tell there was much more carbon in the drain oil, plus you can really smell it. It’s about 20-25 bucks for a 11pz can though, I did get a 4 pack on Amazon for $75. We’ll see I guess, all of the other forums and online videos make it look like some pretty serious stuff.
I’m going to change out the oil and filter every month regardless of mileage for the next 6 months. Prior to changing I’m going to run the BG109 and give it a try. I know it may seem a waste of oil, but I want to give it a try – have the money and time – guessing it should run about $500. I want this oil usage fixed.
I also bought a gallon of a product called PistonKleen right from the manufacturer for $40 buck or so. Once the weather warms up I’ll do some soaks with the stuff.
I also plan on trying a soak with Kreen and Chem Dip Carb Cleaner.
I also have a bottle of the old GM cleaner (AC Delco X66P part 88861803) for $85 on ebay. I may try it down the road, but I’m somewhat leary because of GM’s tech bulletin on using the product. They say it should soak only from 2.5 hours to no more than 3.5 hours, don’t know what it will do to the metal – we’ll see how the other soaks work first.
2022 Feb 19th – mileage 201,776
I used Mobil 1 High Mileage Full Synthetic 5W-20 with a Mobil Extended Filter M1-110A. I also added a quart of Rislone along with 5oz of Seafoam, for a total of 4.75 quarts which brings it right to the top of the fill dot on the dipstick.
