[sorcerer]

A couple of days ago, I found out that my 1994 Honda Accord EX Coupe (83100miles) is leaking oil pretty bad . Today, a mechanic told me that oil is leaking from "OIL PUMP SEAL", so the timing belt plus many other things need to be changed (oil on the timing belt). The shop gave me a list and an estimate (the air filter was very dirty, so it's included here):

timing belt.............$54.00
balance shaft belt...$54.00
camshaft seal.........$10.00
crankshaft seal.......$10.00
balance shaft seal...$10.00
water pump............$80.00
air filter.................$22.38

the total is $240.38 just for parts :scratch: .

Now, I know that what they charge for parts is way too expensive, so I plan to buy them online and have the shop just do the job.

I have a bunch of specific questions though, and i would really appreciate it if anybody could help me out (I have read a lot of posts in a couple of honda forums on the web about timing belt change, so I know the basics - some of my questions are related to terminology):

0. When searching in online part stores, I could not find any OIL PUMP SEAL - this is the exact word the mechanic used. Is it the same as "balance shaft seal" or any of the other two seals mentioned above?

1. Do you recommend that all the seals be changed even though they don't leak? (I guess the answer is yes!)

2. The mechanic did not say anything, but do I need to change the power steering belt and/or compressor belt as well? is alternator belt and compressor belt the same?

3. which online website do you suggest?
Manchester Honda - http://www.manhonda.com everything is cheap here!
ThePartsBin.com/ProStreetOnline.com - they're exactly the same; the latter is a bit more expensive
T.A.S Auto Parts - http://www.secureleadercom.com/exstore/default.asp?goto=dynfrontpage.asp
Majescic Honda- http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com
San Leandro Honda - http://www.slhondaparts.com looks like Majestic Honda

I literally could not find some parts I was looking for in Majestic Honda (like balance shaft seal - I don't even know under which section it is listed). That website is very hard to use for someone like me who has limited knowledge of engine - too bad for me; I've read very good things about it. I could not use Majestic Honda, so I used 3 other websites to get a price quote for the OEM parts I need; the results are:

3 seals + 2 belts + waterpump
Manchester Honda : 137.78
ThePartsBin.com : 153.94
TAS Auto Parts : 161.70

3 seals + 2 belts + waterpump + air filter
Manchester Honda : 154.34
ThePartsBin.com : 165.81 or 171.07 (depending on the air filter)
TAS Auto Parts : 180.65

Has anybody here bought parts from Manchester Honda before? Do you know how good they are? Why are their OEM parts so much cheaper than the other stores? Are they reliable?

Oh btw, the price for doing the job, which includes changing the air filter and takes 5.7 hours according to the estimate I got from the shop, is $342.00. $60.00 an hours is not bad, is it?

Thanks a lot

 

[tafettawhite]

I don't have my TRIAD w/ me like I do at work, but to my knowledge, the oil pump seal is a different seal from the ones you mentioned. Those part-prices look like typical "list" prices that are rounded-up. Ex: cam-seal $9.94 = $10.
I don't know of ANY mfg that prices their parts EXACTLY to the dollar...
Nonetheless - if any oil seal IS leaking in the timing compartment, doing all of these repairs will save you the headache from doing it again later on...assuming you're keeping this car.
Example - should you not do your cam/crank seals: should they leak a month from now, you'll need to redo the timing belt (both parts AND labor) as Im sure the shop will document "cust declined replacing of cam/crank seals at this time" so you won't have any warranty recourse...
I may be wrong, but on some applications the oil pump seal comes WITH the oil pump. The "seal" on the oil pump is a metal-washer-like seal, NOT like the typical cam/crank seal.
changing the exterior belts NOW would also be a good idea, again IF you're keeping the car. Should not be any additional labor as they need to be removed to get into the timing belt work; they should just be charging you for the exterior belts...

Hope this helps. When you do get the repairs done, make sure you get a written warranty just in case something should go wrong... :thmsup:

A couple of days ago, I found out that my 1994 Honda Accord EX Coupe (83100miles) is leaking oil pretty bad . Today, a mechanic told me that oil is leaking from "OIL PUMP SEAL", so the timing belt plus many other things need to be changed (oil on the timing belt). The shop gave me a list and an estimate (the air filter was very dirty, so it's included here):

timing belt.............$54.00
balance shaft belt...$54.00
camshaft seal.........$10.00
crankshaft seal.......$10.00
balance shaft seal...$10.00
water pump............$80.00
air filter.................$22.38

the total is $240.38 just for parts :scratch: .

Now, I know that what they charge for parts is way too expensive, so I plan to buy them online and have the shop just do the job.

I have a bunch of specific questions though, and i would really appreciate it if anybody could help me out (I have read a lot of posts in a couple of honda forums on the web about timing belt change, so I know the basics - some of my questions are related to terminology):

0. When searching in online part stores, I could not find any OIL PUMP SEAL - this is the exact word the mechanic used. Is it the same as "balance shaft seal" or any of the other two seals mentioned above?

1. Do you recommend that all the seals be changed even though they don't leak? (I guess the answer is yes!)

2. The mechanic did not say anything, but do I need to change the power steering belt and/or compressor belt as well? is alternator belt and compressor belt the same?

3. which online website do you suggest?
Manchester Honda - http://www.manhonda.com everything is cheap here!
ThePartsBin.com/ProStreetOnline.com - they're exactly the same; the latter is a bit more expensive
T.A.S Auto Parts - http://www.secureleadercom.com/exstore/default.asp?goto=dynfrontpage.asp
Majescic Honda- http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com
San Leandro Honda - http://www.slhondaparts.com looks like Majestic Honda

I literally could not find some parts I was looking for in Majestic Honda (like balance shaft seal - I don't even know under which section it is listed). That website is very hard to use for someone like me who has limited knowledge of engine - too bad for me; I've read very good things about it. I could not use Majestic Honda, so I used 3 other websites to get a price quote for the OEM parts I need; the results are:

3 seals + 2 belts + waterpump
Manchester Honda : 137.78
ThePartsBin.com : 153.94
TAS Auto Parts : 161.70

3 seals + 2 belts + waterpump + air filter
Manchester Honda : 154.34
ThePartsBin.com : 165.81 or 171.07 (depending on the air filter)
TAS Auto Parts : 180.65

Has anybody here bought parts from Manchester Honda before? Do you know how good they are? Why are their OEM parts so much cheaper than the other stores? Are they reliable?

Oh btw, the price for doing the job, which includes changing the air filter and takes 5.7 hours according to the estimate I got from the shop, is $342.00. $60.00 an hours is not bad, is it?

Thanks a lot

 

[BenjiBoy650]

Don't know about the oil pump seal. If it were me, I'd wait to replace all the other seals. Seals don't just go bad all the time - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

You should get the power steering and compressor belt checked. They would likely not be affected by an oil leak, but they could be in bad condition if they've never been replaced before. Compressor and alternator are driven by the same belt, power steering is separate.

I have used both Majestic and San Leandro Honda sites, they are indeed hard to use, but I have found everything that I've needed. However, I've only bought from San Leandro Honda. They were pretty quick and cheap, I would buy from them again.

 

[Thooks]

Those prices are in-line with what I was quoted for a parts list on a Timing Belt replacement.


You might try to negotiate the whole job down a $100 or so, but I'd let the Honda place do it.

 

[princess]

That's about half of what those same repairs go for here! :thmsup: Your guy gets extra points for mentioning all the seals! You wouldn't believe how many people end up paying double the labor in a few months because another seal went out right after having the timing belt & stuff replaced!!

 

[Thooks]

I thought all the seals came in the Timing Belt kit?

The guy at the Rome dealership balked out all the stuff he has listed above without blinking.

And isn't everything 2x the cost in California?

 

[princess]

Honda timing belts just come with the timing belt. Each seal is separate.

 

[sorcerer]

Thank you all for replying I really appreciate it.

tafettawhite:
I called the mechanic today, and he told me that he meant balancer shaft seal when he said oil pump seal. but just in case, could you please identify that metal-washer-like seal you mentioned when you were talking about the "oil pump seal" in this picture:

BenjiBoy650:
since the car is approximately 12 years old, and its timing belt has never been changed before, i plan to change all the seals as well to avoid any future hasards!
btw, when i called the shop today, he told me that the mechanic did not mention anything about the power steering and compressor belts being changed, so i think i'll do it later if need arises.

Thooks:
bringing the price down to $100 is not possible i think it takes more than 5 hours to change everything i guess, so even if i bring the parts myself (which i intend to do), nobody would do it for $100.
and yes, as far as i know, seals should be bought separately as well.

princess:
i've always taken my car to the same shop who's given me this estimate ($342.00 for labor + $240.38 for parts = $601.01 total) - they run a nice shop and they're well-known in our area for doing good jobs on the cars. but $601.01 is not very cheap though i also called another place and also our local honda dealer...here are the results:
the 1st shop: 5.7 hours, $342.00 for labor; $601.01 total (this includes all the parts and the air filter + labor for it)
the 2nd shop: (?) hours, $410 for labor; $550 total (no air filter though - they also did not mention the balancer shaft seal, so i guess that should be added to the labor and to the total price)
honda dealer: 7 hours (!), $525 for labor; $750 total

what i do not understand is that why honda dealer says it takes 7 hours to do the job while for the other two, it would take roughly 5.5 to 6 hours?

and also, the honda dealer told me that the THERMOSTAT has to be changed as well! is that true? i've been searching a bunch of forums for the timing-belt changing information, but i never came across "the thermostat also has to be changed" thing! the honda dealer price for labor also includes the price of thermostat and its labor. i think the labor price alone would be around $490 for the dealer.

i'm just confused now where should i take it?

oh one more thing, only honda dealer told me that if i bring my own OEM parts, they cover the job under a warranty. the two other shops refused to give a warranty.

 

[magitekkn]

Photo time!

This is a photo of the aftermath of my accord's 2nd timing belt job.

http://flickr.com/photos/autodaemmerung/37697614/

the oil pump seal (F22A1, remember) is the little black loop up from the water pump. looks like it corresponds to #5 on your diagram.

I paid $580 (I think) for mine in middle GA...

 

[Thooks]

Sorcerer:


RE-READ my post.

I meant getting them to KNOCK OFF $100 for buying the parts there and getting all the work done.

 

[Shumax]

Don't know about the oil pump seal. If it were me, I'd wait to replace all the other seals. Seals don't just go bad all the time - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

If someone is in there performing work already, I sure as heck would be having them replace all the seals in that area. The last thing you want to happen is to have one they didn't replace go bad and then have to pay the labor charge again to fix it.


Also, you're talking about a $50 difference in the total price between the lowest quote and the quote from the shop you say you trust. For $50, I wouldn't even second guess it---I'd be going to the shop you deal with normally and keep them (and you) happy. The next time something comes up, they likely aren't going to forget you just gave them $600---especially right before x-mas.

Shumax

 

[BenjiBoy650]

If someone is in there performing work already, I sure as heck would be having them replace all the seals in that area. The last thing you want to happen is to have one they didn't replace go bad and then have to pay the labor charge again to fix it.

When I1 did this, the new seal failed 20K miles later, though the old seal worked flawlessly for over 100K...

Sometimes, things just like to stay where they are.

 

[stevel]

When I1 did this, the new seal failed 20K miles later, though the old seal worked flawlessly for over 100K...

Sometimes, things just like to stay where they are.

dunno about I1's situation, but I'm gonna have to dissagree with ya ben. :lmao:

too many times we have replaced one leaking seal, then a few months later another one leaks that would have been rediculously easy to replace at the previous repair time. generally speaking you are better off to just replace them if it's convenient.

 

[BenjiBoy650]

Well, considering that one seal failed already, I guess I would probably replace it as well. In other cases, where people decide to replace stuff just out of the blue even though no similar component has failed, I think that's unwarranted. Chances are if you're at 200K and your automatic is still using the original tranny fluid...it's not going to hurt too much to leave it as is (just for example)

 

[sorcerer]

Thooks, sorry I misread your post man. But I'm able to get the parts for only $86 cheaper, so the shop most probably would not agree to bring the total $100 down.

magitekkn, the part you mentioned is listed as the oil pump gasket on Majestic Honda, not the oil pump seal. I, specifically, asked the shop whether by the oil pump seal they meant the gasket, and they said no. But it's cheap (close to $3), so I'll buy one as well just in case it's the one which is leaking and I misunderstood all their comments.

Shumax, the price difference would be $86, not $50. For me (a graduate student getting paid by the university, the typical slave-master relationship) the total price is nearly half of my monthly salary! So it's important to get it done cheaper while still sticking to OEM parts.

BenjiBoy650, I think I'll change all the seals as well to be on the safe side...I can't realy afford doing the same thing 2 month from now.

But what about the thermostat? Is it necessary?

 

[BenjiBoy650]

Univ of Illinois at Urbana Champaign or another U?? What you studying?

 

[sorcerer]

yup, I study physics at UIUC. why? you've been at UIUC?

 

[princess]

But what about the thermostat? Is it necessary?

Isn't that like a six dollar part??? Usually easy access. (I didn't look up yours) Are there signs of it seeping? Have you have any over heating or slow warm up? I'd consider that one an AS NEEDED part....

The seals are a completely different story. The rubber stuff ages & gets brittle. So mileage & time make 'em pay a toll.

When we've done them at home, we replace them all at once, less apt to have someone coming back & being upset... One of those "Murphy's Law" things... aranoid: We have bad luck & as sure as anything, what we didn't replace would go out.

 

[BenjiBoy650]

yup, I study physics at UIUC. why? you've been at UIUC?

Nah, think my GSI for Chem 4A (Chem for Chem majors) was telling me about UIUC and their chem programs. I think she's from SIU, maybe UIUC :dunno:

 

[sorcerer]

princess, i have not had any overheating at all - even when i was pressing it hard in the hottest day of the summer. as for slow warm-ups, i'm not sure actually. as it's gets colder here in midwest (and i mean REALLY cold), it takes longer for the car to warm up (which i guess is pretty normal). usually when i start the engine, it'll be on 1800RPM or so (and is very loud), then it takes like 2 to 2.5 minutes to come down to 1000RPM or so and, say, 3.5 minutes to idle at around 750RPM. is that normal? i'm sure it used to idle faster in the summer though. and what would be the signs of the thermostat seeping? ( honestly, i don't even know what it means )

btw, what about the oil pump gasket? (not the seal) do you think i should tell them to change that as well?

ah! i'm going crazy... :nuts: