[kalel34]

I know that I'm trying to "have my cake and eat it" too with this topic...

I want to add a little more bass without having to install a sub. I've done it before in my old Camry. I ran 6X9's in the fronts and rears and amped them with about 60W RMS each. It sounded like a I had an 8" sub in there, the bass was decent, considering no subwoofer.

But with my Gen8, it's 6.5" all around. Even if I amped them all up, they won't come close to the 6X9's. So I'm thinking of 2 options that might help with a little more bass:

1. high-quality components with good amp power in the front (looking at Alpine or JL) or
2. 6.5" subs in the OEM rear deck holes.

I drove a rental Nissan Sentra years back that had good bass. I wondered why it was so bassy, and it turned out it had a powered 6.5" sub in the rear deck in addition to the rear speakers. I figured 2 subs (although only 6.5") would sound even better.

In short I want to try to add bass without adding a sub in the trunk or cutting into the rear deck for a 8" sub. I'm open to all ideas, thanks!

 

[hillstones]

Have you thought about mounting 6x9s from below in the rear deck? Aftermarket 6x9s can be installed either from below or dropped down from above. From below, you would not need a 6x9 hole in the deck. You would lose some trunk space since they will be deeper, but all you have to do is drill new holes. Unless Honda screwed up the rear deck to prevent 6x9s from being installed from below.

Oh, and get ready to be flamed because the "rear speaker haters" will find the thread and say you are nuts.

 

[kalel34]

Have you thought about mounting 6x9s from below in the rear deck? Aftermarket 6x9s can be installed either from below or dropped down from above. From below, you would not need a 6x9 hole in the deck. You would lose some trunk space since they will be deeper, but all you have to do is drill new holes. Unless Honda screwed up the rear deck to prevent 6x9s from being installed from below.

Oh, and get ready to be flamed because the "rear speaker haters" will find the thread and say you are nuts.

Yes, I looked into bottom-mounting 6X9's in the rear. But after looking, the holes are very irregularly shaped and too close to the trunk lid hinge/mechanism. It would take some creative fabrication to come up with a template/baffle to make them fit right.

I don't care about rear-speaker haters anyways. I wouldn't be using the 6X9's as full range. I'd power them with a small sub amp and low pass them. Cadence makes these really heavy-duty 6x9 subs (no built-in tweeters or midrange drivers).

 

[mrmondaynight]

You need 3 things

Components
a lot of power( 300+ x 2)
Deadened and sealed door

 

[PaulD]

if you put 6 1/2" subs in the rear deck, you will to enclose them some how to get any real bass.

 

[mrmondaynight]

Rear deck would rattle too much.

 

[johnnydinh701]

wait how would u be able to place 6x9 in the back? wouldnt u have to make the 6.5 speaker holes bigger?

 

[jperryss]

Have you thought about mounting 6x9s from below in the rear deck? Aftermarket 6x9s can be installed either from below or dropped down from above. From below, you would not need a 6x9 hole in the deck. You would lose some trunk space since they will be deeper, but all you have to do is drill new holes. Unless Honda screwed up the rear deck to prevent 6x9s from being installed from below.

If the OP can make this happen it'll be his best bet. Either top mount or bottom mount (whatever fits) important thing is that where the speaker meets the deck is sealed off nicely. In the past I've gotten mirror-shaking bass from a decent set of 6x9s top-mounted in the rear deck with minimal power (under 40w each).

if you put 6 1/2" subs in the rear deck, you will to enclose them some how to get any real bass.

For small subs, probably. But in my experience rear deck speakers (ie typical 6x9 or 6.5" 2-ways) perform better when allowed to fire into the trunk. The key is making a tight seal where the speaker meets the panel.

You need 3 things
Components
a lot of power( 300+ x 2)
Deadened and sealed door

Components are no better than coaxes at providing low-end. Typically larger driver size = more moved air = better low end. A 6.5" component and 6.5" coax are both rocking the same size woofer.
And 300w is ridiculous for component or coaxial speakers.
Deadener does help, especially with front door speakers.

 

[mrmondaynight]

Components are no better than coaxes at providing low-end. Typically larger driver size = more moved air = better low end. A 6.5" component and 6.5" coax are both rocking the same size woofer.
And 300w is ridiculous for component or coaxial speakers.
Deadener does help, especially with front door speakers.

Maybe if they were created equally. Your opinion is a tad too vague.

Peep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRSdoHis4rw&feature=player_embedded

This 6.5 has 13mm of xmax and a fs of 45hz

Find me a coax that comes close.


9 times out of 10, a component WILL have better midbass response than a coax

300w isn't a lot considering it'll have to be split between 2 and the crossover itself will eat up 15-20w

As far as real bass goes(63hz and down), a 6.5 mid or 6x9 will NEVER replace a sub. a 6.5 just won't produce the lowest octaves with authority...esp in a door or running free air in the rear deck. You'll get some ok output up until about 70hz then it'll roll off. Any lower and the doors are gonna twang like crazy and sound bad. Same goes for a flimsy rear deck. What you're referring to is called "mid bass". You want to play the lowest octaves, you need a sub. There's no way around it.

 

[hillstones]

wait how would u be able to place 6x9 in the back? wouldnt u have to make the 6.5 speaker holes bigger?

Nope. Aftermarket 6x9s can either be top mounted (dropped into a 6x9 hole) or mounted from the bottom (if there is enough room), just by bolting to the rear deck from below. But based on the OP comment, Honda screwed the pooch as usual and didn't allow room for 6x9s, even if mounted from below.

 

[jperryss]

Maybe if they were created equally. Your opinion is a tad too vague.
[snip]
This 6.5 has 13mm of xmax and a fs of 45hz
Find me a coax that comes close.

9 times out of 10, a component WILL have better midbass response than a coax

Yes, that's a raw driver and yes there are dedicated woofers that will blow the doors off of any name brand coax OR component set.

Maybe next time say 'dedicated woofer' instead of 'components'?

300w isn't a lot considering it'll have to be split between 2 and the crossover itself will eat up 15-20w

If your amp is 300w2, that is 300w per side. The woofer hanging off of that crossover will still 'potentially' see 300w, as could the tweeter, technically (but it won't and would blow way before that). The crossover just directs the frequencies to each channel.

As far as real bass goes(63hz and down), a 6.5 mid or 6x9 will NEVER replace a sub. a 6.5 just won't produce the lowest octaves with authority...esp in a door or running free air in the rear deck. You'll get some ok output up until about 70hz then it'll roll off. Any lower and the doors are gonna twang like crazy and sound bad. Same goes for a flimsy rear deck. What you're referring to is called "mid bass". You want to play the lowest octaves, you need a sub. There's no way around it.

Yes, agreed. Bass and sub-bass are not the same thing. But many people have pulled off 'loud and low enough for their tastes' without a sub, and I think that's what the OP is looking for.

 

[mrmondaynight]

Yes, that's a raw driver and yes there are dedicated woofers that will blow the doors off of any name brand coax OR component set.

Maybe next time say 'dedicated woofer' instead of 'components'?

You knew what i meant :lmao:

If your amp is 300w2, that is 300w per side. The woofer hanging off of that crossover will still 'potentially' see 300w, as could the tweeter, technically (but it won't and would blow way before that). The crossover just directs the frequencies to each channel.

nah, the power gets split. If you have an amp that does 300 x 2, that 300 gets split between woofer, tweet, and crossover.

It'll normally break down like this

140w to each tweet
140w to each mid
10-20 to each crossover..Some crossovers eat up more..some less.

When you see an rms rating for a component set, you want to get an amp that does DOUBLE the power if u want them to perform at full potential.

 

[jperryss]

You knew what i meant :lmao:
nah, the power gets split. If you have an amp that does 300 x 2, that 300 gets split between woofer, tweet, and crossover.

It'll normally break down like this

140w to each tweet
140w to each mid
10-20 to each crossover..Some crossovers eat up more..some less.

When you see an rms rating for a component set, you want to get an amp that does DOUBLE the power if u want them to perform at full potential.

Wrong. Crossovers do not divide the power between the drivers, they just divide the frequency band.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speakers/146726-active-vs-passive-attempt-me-explain.html

When you have components sets with passive crossovers, the power from the amp is not split between the speakers. If you have a 70 watt amp, then each speaker is going to receive 70 watts (assuming all speakers are the same impedance). If you are sending 70 watts @ 4ohm to the component set, and the mid is 4ohm and the tweeter is 8ohm, then the mid will receive 70 watts but the tweeter will only receive 35 watts.

This probably isn't a very technical explanation….but it gets the point across none-the-less Let's pretend theoretically that we are running a 70 watt @ 4ohm amp full range. That amp (theoretically) puts out 70 watts at all frequencies at 4ohms, correct?? Now, pretend that we are running that amp to a component set (with all 4ohm speakers) through a passive crossover with a crossover point of 3500hz. So, we are taking that full range signal from the amp and splitting up the frequencies between the mid and tweet at 3500hz. Now, since we are splitting the frequencies and nothing else, there is still going to be 70 watts worth of power at all frequencies below the crossover point and at all frequencies above the crossover point, just the same as there was before we split the signal (since it was putting out 70w at all frequencies).

And you're 'double the power' statement isn't right either. Yes, some people will run significantly above RMS rating, but it's certainly not required. And would you put 1000w 'true' power through a sub rated for 500w RMS? I wouldn't.

 

[kalel34]

Okay, so you guys are making me lean towards installing a sub now, lol. Good thing is, I already have a decent 12" sub (Alpine Type-S) and a good amount of power (Alpine 400W RMS mono) laying around the house, just have to drop them in. So here's my proposed new setup...

For the time being, I'll just use the OEM stereo to power the fronts. Then I'll remove the rear speakers, but use those wires for an MTX re-Q, with my existing sub and amp.

With this modest, simple setup, what's a good crossover frequency for the sub? 80Hz? 100Hz? 120Hz?

 

[mrmondaynight]

Wrong. Crossovers do not divide the power between the drivers, they just divide the frequency band.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speakers/146726-active-vs-passive-attempt-me-explain.html

That is called "bi-amping"

OP, amp your speakers before adding a sub.

 

[jperryss]

That is called "bi-amping"

No. Sending 100w to a standard passive crossover will send 100w to ALL speakers running off of that crossover. Period.

If a crossover is bi-ampable, it has two channels of power input instead of one. Like the SPX17REF:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/assets/ProductImages/Alpine_SPX-17REF.jpg

In that case you can run two channels of power into each crossover, gain the amps running to them separately, etc.

 

[mrmondaynight]

Ya, that's biamping. I was initially wrong. It'll depend on the source material.

 

[kalel34]

That is called "bi-amping"

OP, amp your speakers before adding a sub.

Amp the front speakers even with keeping the OEM stereo? I think the MTX re-Q has 2 pairs of RCA outputs: for sub and 2-ch amp.

 

[mrmondaynight]

MTX re-Q is just a sub eq

Get an ms8 or 3sixty.2