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^Agreed on all your points. I'll be happy to clean up/move/re-post when needed.
 

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FYI - my 2.0 Sport had 4,600 miles and the dipstick stinks heavily of gas since day 1. Wonder if this is normal on GDI.
No my friend it is not, have the oil sample checked, i have the same car with the same problem, result came back yesterday and i have out of range gas in oil and a lot of wear and tear of the copper and bras bushings, viscosity is low as well.

Blackstone report on 2019 accord sport 2.0T
 

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Thank you, but could you please post the entire report with much of the writing cut-off?
 

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Does the oil only have 824 miles on it?

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It's a relief that the metal particles are normal for wear in. Def some fuel getting in there though. Makes me want to get my oil tested when I change it. Thanks for posting this info.
 

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@Chad T With due respect, I will take a different view....

I would like to see the entire report- not partial words and paragraphs, not "additional info" all removed, no alteration of the report other than name/address. I've seen dozens of Blackstone reports online- I have never seen one that was modified like this. I would also like to see Blackstone's full interpretation of data.

Arm Sport, you said more than 6 quarts of "fluid" drained out of your engine (after 824 miles), and yet your oil supposedly has just 2% fuel in it. That is the limit as Blackstone says the universal average is less than 2%. So what is "more than one quart" of non-gasoline fluid doing in your crankcase?

And yes, with the factory fill of oil having less than 824 miles on it, you WILL see abnormal "wear" or higher trace amounts of certain things. You are not the first to have oil analysis before 1,000 miles- there are always data points that seem to be outliers. People interpret data differently- and people will interpret it differently when they can see the whole report, not selective parts.

And Arm Sport, I do thank you for going to the trouble and expense of having your oil looked at- I respectfully request a re-posting of the report. No, you don't owe me anything and I am not your boss. Up to you, of course.
 

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At 824 miles, i drained over 6 quarts, it should not be more than 5. Dip stick was above high mark. Honda wants me to take it to another Honda shop. As you can see the viscosity's are low, the flash point is low, I'm afraid that 0 w-20 is being cut in half to 0 w-10 or even lower, would be nice if an expert can give us his/her input in this, should i use 5w20 or 5w30 to offset the low viscosity? Since dealer and manufacturer are hand in hand and wont elaborate on this otherwise would be admitting to their guilt. I don't drive much daily and it's mostly city, not much traffic and not much idling, car been driven for 6 months, Honda's break-in period is about 600 miles, driven in econ mode and normal mode, tried to keep the rpm at around 3k. And don't buy the excuse of warmer engine and you have to drive it in freeway speeds so on and so fort, these are all excuses, it is a design flaw, one thing that i can think of is the turbo boost is very high about 20.8 PSI and piston rings can not hold on to that much pressure so they give in and let fuel sip down to oil reservoir, other one is too much fuel being pumped in the chambers. I'm just trowing 2 cents in this discussion.

And i didnt try to cover or hide anything, after all its my car and its not a lease, thats how it came out after attaching it, this new one is after i took a picture and just block my personal info. have a nice day.
 

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At 824 miles, i drained over 6 quarts, it should not be more than 5. Dip stick was above high mark. Honda wants me to take it to another Honda shop. As you can see the viscosity's are low, the flash point is low, I'm afraid that 0 w-20 is being cut in half to 0 w-10 or even lower, would be nice if an expert can give us his/her input in this, should i use 5w20 or 5w30 to offset the low viscosity? Since dealer and manufacturer are hand in hand and wont elaborate on this otherwise would be admitting to their guilt. I don't drive much daily and it's mostly city, not much traffic and not much idling, car been driven for 6 months, Honda's break-in period is about 600 miles, driven in econ mode and normal mode, tried to keep the rpm at around 3k. And don't buy the excuse of warmer engine and you have to drive it in freeway speeds so on and so fort, these are all excuses, it is a design flaw, one thing that i can think of is the turbo boost is very high about 20.8 PSI and piston rings can not hold on to that much pressure so they give in and let fuel sip down to oil reservoir, other one is too much fuel being pumped in the chambers. I'm just trowing 2 cents in this discussion.

And i didnt try to cover or hide anything, after all its my car and its not a lease, thats how it came out after attaching it, this new one is after i took a picture and just block my personal info. have a nice day.
I am having a nice day, thanks!

So you are ignoring why you had "more than 6 quarts of fluid" in your crankcase- it certainly was not fuel (see the report). What was it? How did it get in there?

The report has numbers from the "average"- which is at 6,600 miles. You have 824 miles on that oil. No wonder you have higher than "normal" levels of silicone and copper- you pulled an oil report on a brand new engine with just 824 miles. I will bet that if you did an oil analysis on a brand new Honda engine with 20 miles on it, the numbers would be even higher. Did you read Blackstone's interpretation? It counters your statement that Honda has a design flaw- it actually says- right there in black and white- that a new engine will show higher amounts of copper and silicone. THAT IS WHY I WANTED TO SEE THE ENTIRE REPORT! Thank you!

That is science....your interpretation is vague:
I don't drive much daily and it's mostly city, not much traffic and not much idling, car been driven for 6 months, Honda's break-in period is about 600 miles, driven in econ mode and normal mode, tried to keep the rpm at around 3k.

So you put 824 miles on the car in 6 months? That is 137 miles a month. That is quite a lot of short drives in the city, isn't it? When car engines don't warm up enough- as yours does not, they accumulate water vapor. That is not conspiracy- that is basic science.
 

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now im talking to a scientist or a honda rep?
i have other new cars and they are all honda's some with GDI some just port injectors, not seen any thing like this no excess oil, no oil and gas mixture, all driven same distances. accumulation of water vapor....

what do you mean by ignoring having more than 6 quarts of oil. what can i do but calling the honda customer service and my local dealer.?
 

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now im talking to a scientist or a honda rep?
i have other new cars and they are all honda's some with GDI some just port injectors, not seen any thing like this no excess oil, no oil and gas mixture, all driven same distances. accumulation of water vapor....
Neither...just a guy who can read English and use critical thinking and call BS when I see it. As a moderator here, I would hope you would appreciate that. So many other forums are managed by idiots and frequented by morons- they would not question anything you post. But peeps here got me- incredibly good-looking moderator RickBlaine!

So who am I talking to now? You attack Honda by pulling an oil analysis on an engine with 824 miles and saying the engine is failing because you have high amounts of copper and silicone, hoping we don't see (or know) that high amounts of copper and silicone are a common occurrence in all new engines with that few miles? I really don't care if you hate Honda or want to attack them (you should read my attacks on their clear coat fade)- but at DriveAccord you should have your facts to back it up.

Or, are you just someone who wants us to believe that the extra quart of fluid (or more) that you drained was gasoline- when the report shows that it could not have been gasoline?

You see, I don't buy your story that your engine is failing. Maybe the other forum will- heck, I am sure they will.

137 miles a month is Uber or classic summer/weekend car territory, not regular car owner territory.
 

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At 824 miles, i drained over 6 quarts, it should not be more than 5. Dip stick was above high mark. Honda wants me to take it to another Honda shop. As you can see the viscosity's are low, the flash point is low, I'm afraid that 0 w-20 is being cut in half to 0 w-10 or even lower, would be nice if an expert can give us his/her input in this, should i use 5w20 or 5w30 to offset the low viscosity? Since dealer and manufacturer are hand in hand and wont elaborate on this otherwise would be admitting to their guilt. I don't drive much daily and it's mostly city, not much traffic and not much idling, car been driven for 6 months, Honda's break-in period is about 600 miles, driven in econ mode and normal mode, tried to keep the rpm at around 3k. And don't buy the excuse of warmer engine and you have to drive it in freeway speeds so on and so fort, these are all excuses, it is a design flaw, one thing that i can think of is the turbo boost is very high about 20.8 PSI and piston rings can not hold on to that much pressure so they give in and let fuel sip down to oil reservoir, other one is too much fuel being pumped in the chambers. I'm just trowing 2 cents in this discussion.
1) First off there is NOTHING you can do by using the wrong oil to help the situation. Don't do it. Stick with 0W20.

2) Blackstone's report showed you:
  • at the exact threshold on fuel in the oil at 2%.

  • 2% is nowhere near 1 quart over 5.
Did you, yourself, check the oil level over that time (ie: from delivery to now)?

3) YES, a warmer engine will cause more gasoline in the oil to evaporate and be eliminated via the PCV valve and into the combustion chamber. So a lot of short trips, especially in cooler weather, will see more fuel accumulation in the oil because it is not being evaporated out. Longer trips with a hot engine: no gasoline getting into the oil and whatever gasoline is in the oil gets evaporated. (Think of the rivulets of very hot oil falling down to oil pan and the huge liquid to "air" surface - gasoline will "out" and the PCV will let it into the induction manifold to be burned in the combustion chamber).

4) NO, it is not a turbo issue. Most of the time, the boost is very mild. And even when it is higher, that is when things are hot in the cylinder and the fuel is being burned near completely[1]. Fuel getting into the oil happens when the cylinder walls are cold and there is condensation. This does not happen in a hot engine when the turbo is being used for ongoing high boost. (Not that 20.8 PSI, ie, 6.1 over ambient is high).

5) Finally, yes: Take it to a Honda dealership as recommended by your dealership. Let them look at it. There may be something at fault and it's best that they find it under warranty. And if they do not find anything, demand a written report be made and then forward that to Honda USA (or wherever you are).

[1] while the ECU might set the mixture slightly richer as boost is increased, whatever unburned gasoline there is will go out with the exhaust. The cylinder walls will be far too hot for condensation.
 

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i dont think that you would be so loyal to honda than me, i am more disappointed than anything else, more on their fit and finish than the engine oil dilution, i own hondas since 1982, i never said that my engine is failing, its in plain English, i never said extra quart is gas, i know better that copper & bras shaving especially at first oil change is normal, also silicon, but how much of it is not up to me to decide, also my oil life was 60% at 824 miles, driving more or less doesnt mean anything, you can drive as much or as little as you wish, if you think im an irregular car owner so be it, driving little does not justify oil dilution, the reason that we come to this sites is to share our experiences and not to get attacked and bullied, to see if there are others with similar experiences, since no one else helping you.

Thanks Alan.
 

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At 824 miles in 6 months and you are complaining about the percentage on the MM? Assuming your driving will be the same for the next 6 months, means in 1 year you will be at 1650 miles more or less and due for an oil change anyway on the time value (although MM does not use dates for changes). I walk further than than 824 every 6 months.

I am not sure you have a typical driving pattern, that is not good or bad. Unless you are doing the things to keep your car ready to drive with such little use it is going to have different issues than a car used 824 miles a week.

I think the MM is correct and you should probably go by it and/or the calendar, as the oil should be changed every 12 months. I do not have a new 2.0t Accord but I do have a 2010 Acura RDX (2.3 turbo) and I have questioned the short intervals the MM gives me on oil changes. They even specifying the type oil to use, either Mobil 1 5w-30 or any oil that meets the Honda spec HTO-06 . The Accord does not call for a special spec of oil, only the standard 0w-20. If I were you, that is exactly the weight I would use.



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@Chad T With due respect, I will take a different view...
Well I'm hardly due any respect but thank you! Would still be interesting to see what the report looks like on mine. I also drive short trips but my car gets regular floggings. I'm also a big believer in not babying it too much during break in. Too gentle and you loose your cross hatch before you get the rings shaped properly IMO. So it would be interesting to compare. Perhaps alleviate some fuel dilution anxiety.

the reason that we come to this sites is to share our experiences and not to get attacked and bullied
There is definitely a good bit of that on here but Rick is genuinely helpful and funny. He likes to prevent mis-information though. This fuel dilution thing has been a long going guessing game with just a bunch of smelly dipsticks until now.

From the report it looks like the fuel amount in the oil is not a huge deal. Maybe normal for that new of an engine doing short trips? Could be fine other than the extra quart? Maybe factory overfill?

Thanks again for posting the report. I think that's the only real data in this thread. And welcome to the site!!
 

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This morning, Scotty Kilmer released a new video that discusses short drives as a problem the "Italian Tune-Up" can solve. He specifically states that your engine will accumulate water vapor and other bad stuff if you make short city trips every day.

Scotty Kilmer is NOT an engineer- but a mechanic for 52 years (so far). He gets a few things wrong from time to time- but I think he is right on here (Start at 2:30):
 

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There's one problem with that vid. No pics of animals that look like they're laughing. Plenty of wild hand flailing though. Found him so annoying at first but now can't get enough.

He has another vid that talks about 1.5 Civic oil dilution specifically.

 

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My plan is to have the oil tested in my daughter's 2019 Civic 1.5 turbo at the next oil change. This will be the second change, I am curious to see what it says. Should be in the next month or so as she is at 15% now.

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