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AC6DN
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1,336 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all.

For the back-story see below.
I thought I'd share my latest project. I also have some questions about Honda's new ATF, DW1 (Z1) Vs Red Line D6 (D4):
According to Red Line's webpage the new Honda ATF DW1 is compatible with RL D6. And Z1 is D4, what meany of us use (I was using AMSoil). Are we now gonna use D6? For now I plan to used DW1...

I plan to add a transmission cooler, in-line with my radiator cooler (ahead of):
Transmission ATF Output cooler line, will go to a Magnefine filter, then a 4452 Tru-cooler, and then the Radiator OEM cooler, and then back to the Transmission ATF input.
The External cooler:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370893144123?

This is contrariety to this forums standard, putting the external cooler last. Here is why I am doing what I am doing:
ATF has two boundaries to keep it between, not lower than 100F and not higher than 220F.
The bottom of a well functioning radiator is 30-40 degrees lower that what went in. In our case this is 207F, for easy math that's 210F. 210F - 30F is 180F, this is worst (normal) case. Normally its (182F) 180F - 30F = 150F.
By pre-cooling the ATF, the hottest the ATF will be going back to the transmission is 150-180F. And the ATF wont be adding heat to the radiator, letting it work better, and run cooler. When its cold out, the ATF wont be over cooled, and will get slightly wormed up.

Is something I've missed?
:paranoid:

As some of you know, I just had my transmission fully overhauled. The transmission shop prefers disconnecting the radiator cooler completely, and just using an external cooler. This from my research, seem to be a bad idea. I got the OK to add the cooler my self, and they want me to keep the DW1 till my first ATF change, at 30K, that I'll do at 15K. Then 30K there after.
I now live where I climb a hill every day to get home. I'm running at 200-207F, by the time I get home. I expect that this is mostly heat from the slow winding road and ~1000Ft climb. Of witch is mostly the ATF heat transfer via the radiator cooler, as I currently dont have an external cooler...
 

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I just had the transmission in my wifes Hyundai Santa Fe rebuilt and was talking to the owner of the shop about Honda transmissions. He basicly said that a filter and cooler will help but its not really necessary unless your towing something. Not changing the fluid is the killer. The reason is the return ports inside the tranny are small and get clogged up with clutch material, starving the tranny of fluid and overheating it. He had one that was opened on his bench and showed me. No cooler will save you unless you change the fluid, and he only uses Honda DW1. He's tried other brands and they come back, when he started using DW1 not one came back.
 

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AC6DN
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1,336 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I used AmsOil Univ ATF and it was OK. Changed every 15K. At 120K on the transmission the case-half broke, not ATF related. The clutches were OK (not grate or good enough to reuse, but not bad). Z1 was used for ~25K of its life.

I will use DW1 for the transmission warranty, but D4 or D6 afterwords.

The cooler is for extra measure. I bought a NCT gun and plan on measuring the in/output lines temperatures before the addition of the external cooler. My first measurement was 199F out and 187F in. The output line is black (good measurement), the input is metallic (less good/ reads low). I plan on painting it, so that its an apples-apples test.
 

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AC6DN
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1,336 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Use D4 of our Honda's...
I just got off the phone with Redline Oil. For now they think we should use D4. D6 was made for CAFA standards compliance. In there opinion, the new ATF DW1 is more related to CAFA, than our Gen6 and Gen7 failures (reductions). He said that D4 or D6 is fine, the FE advantages are less that 1 MPG difference, but ether Redline ATF are good.
 

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AC6DN
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1,336 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Update....

I found testing the in/outlet transmission ATF temperatures, that the major source of heat, was on the inlet back to the transmission, is from the exhaust manifold radiant heat, I think.
Approximately 160F at the radiator ATF cooler outlet, 185F at the transmission inlet (same line)...

I plan to add rap on heat shield to the line near the exhaust manifold...

OEM setup:
185-210F out of the transmission, 175-195F back into the transmission.
Out, In, Radiator tank top (between cap and inlet), bottom of tank at cooler lines (comments). nd= no data.
199, 187, nd, nd
195, 185, 206, nd
185, 175, 190, nd
185, 175, 190, nd (painted goldish line black)
190, 185, 186
210, 195, 196, nd (hot day, 78F)
199, 189, 196, nd, (hot day, 79F)
196, 186, 186, 165
192, 184, 182, 160

IR gun, Res=0.95. Distances 1ft.
 

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AC6DN
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1,336 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Just in case anyone cares...

I added the cooler. Problems encountered. Radiator fins go horizontally and condensers fine vertically. I could not get the rectangular shaped Zip-Tye mounts through both of them. My solution was to loosen the radiator, pick it out of the holes it sits in and move it out of the way. I ran the Zip-Tye mount from the cooler through the condenser. Its centered on the larger fan on the drivers side. I can up load the pictures, if anyone interested.
So far the temperatures are;
Trans out-line, input line, radiator tank top, OEM cooler out-line (out side temp = 75F):
175, 175, 185, 155F.
These are lower that before...

The weird thing is, after removing the Fram inline ATF filter (installed my trans shop, has no PN on it) that was replaced with a Magnefine filter, that my weird delay into drive or reverse, has lessen greatly (almost is gone). My guess is the other filter is causing a back pressure issue, or was plugged...
 

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Pictures are always good.

The improved shift into Drive and Reverse is interesting. Could it be the extra parts (new cooler, piping & Magnefine filter) have increased the flow resistance enough to raise the internal pressure and improve the engagement speed?? I believe the cooling line just dumps back into the transmission case so it doesnt directly provide fluid to any of the control valves, but less flow going to the cooling lines could result in slightly higher internal pressure.
 
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