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Discussion Starter #1
Ok so here is the scoop:

Just over a week and a half ago I picked up my AV6 from Honda (they replaced my trans)... Drove the car about 3 miles down the road to STS tire, and replaced all four of my worn out OEM Michelins with Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires (215/50/17)...

Upon leaving the lot I noticed my car pulling to the right, which I hadnt really noticed after leaving Honda (maybe because my Michelins were so worn they weren't showing a *possible* misalignment done by Honda, and now the Conti's were *possibly*).

I got an alignment at Sears the next day (Hunter Machine), and it didnt do much in the way of taking the pull to the right away.

I eventually had STS rotate the two front tires: nothing... Actually made it a little worse (pulled to both sides now)... I swapped them back

I brought the car back to STS to see what they would do for me. They cross rotated the tires... Still pulling to the right

Yesterday I brought it back... They did an alignment on an OLDER Hunter alignment machine... However, they didnt touch the front, just adjusted the rear toe because it was out... The front read: 0.00/0.00... I dont know how, when the alignment wasnt even THAT zeroed out after Sears did it!

But anyway, Im noticing that to keep the car steering straight, I have to have the steering wheel kocked to the left a little bit... If I straighten the wheel out, the car pulls to the right.

The manager at STS thinks that what happened was, the steering wheel was too far to the right during one of my previous alignments, and it straightens itself out when driving... When it straightens itself out, it pulls to the right since the wheel is off center...

Im thinking that ALSO, all the "slop"/play wasn't taken out of the steering when Sears aligned it last as well, and maybe that can be attributing to a little drift/pullage...


Anyway, does that make sense? If the steering wheel is adjusted too far to the right- meaning that I would have to hold the wheel slightly to the left to keep the car straight- BUT the wheels/alignment is in spec and the alignment machine says that the car should be tracking straight, could the wheel being off center make the car pull to the right? Like, does the steering wheel still return to TDC no matter how off center it is set in an alignment?

Please let me know if I lost you (anyone) while you were reading this...

But basically, are our steering wheels weighted/counterweighted? Or do our clocksprings force our steering wheels back to TDC regardless of alignment? Is there ANYWAY that having a steering wheel set a couple degrees off can make a car pull in that direction?

Thanks
 

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I would like to know about the counterweight/weighted part too.

For my car, I had to do alignment twice, and I have the good year tripletreds.
Even after telling the shop to ensure the steering is centered, it's not.
It's off by a small degree.

But when I'm driving straight, it doesn't pull...apart from the steering off by a little bit.

However, on some roads, my steering is straight and the car doesn't pull either. So I guess for my case, some roads were slopped more than others?
For water to drain away from the middle I suppose ?
 

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If the spoke angle is off it will cause this. That is all I know...lol. My dad used to work in the VQD, inspection, area at the Accord plant and one thing he did was spoke angle checks. I would assume that's it would be hard to mess up a spoke angle alignment though...idk. Guess I can find out more info from him tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I would like to know about the counterweight/weighted part too.

For my car, I had to do alignment twice, and I have the good year tripletreds.
Even after telling the shop to ensure the steering is centered, it's not.
It's off by a small degree.

But when I'm driving straight, it doesn't pull...apart from the steering off by a little bit.

However, on some roads, my steering is straight and the car doesn't pull either. So I guess for my case, some roads were slopped more than others?
For water to drain away from the middle I suppose ?
Crowns and sloped in the road have a lot to do with steering feedback also.
If the spoke angle is off it will cause this. That is all I know...lol. My dad used to work in the VQD, inspection, area at the Accord plant and one thing he did was spoke angle checks. I would assume that's it would be hard to mess up a spoke angle alignment though...idk. Guess I can find out more info from him tomorrow.
What is a spoke angle? Spoke of what?
 

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Crowns and sloped in the road have a lot to do with steering feedback also.


What is a spoke angle? Spoke of what?
Spoke angle of the steering wheel. Turning your wheel all the way to left, the turn signal lever should be in a certain spot and when you turn it all the way to the right, the wiper lever should be at a certain spot...obviously I don't remember what spot :dunno: There's even a tool to measure the angle, etc.
 

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The centering of the steering wheel is a function of the caster angle, in theory the steering wheel angle can be off a bit and the car would still track straight and true if the alignment is done correctly, all a shop need to do to re-center the steering wheel is to extend one steering tie-rod by a few threads and reduce the other steering tie-rod by the same amount. Anothe rpossibility is that steering wheel is off by one spline when it was fitted to the steering column but that would cause at least 5 degrees or so.

It's simple mechanics 101.
 

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Ok so here is the scoop:

Just over a week and a half ago I picked up my AV6 from Honda (they replaced my trans)... Drove the car about 3 miles down the road to STS tire, and replaced all four of my worn out OEM Michelins with Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires (215/50/17)...

Upon leaving the lot I noticed my car pulling to the right, which I hadnt really noticed after leaving Honda (maybe because my Michelins were so worn they weren't showing a *possible* misalignment done by Honda, and now the Conti's were *possibly*).

I got an alignment at Sears the next day (Hunter Machine), and it didnt do much in the way of taking the pull to the right away.

I eventually had STS rotate the two front tires: nothing... Actually made it a little worse (pulled to both sides now)... I swapped them back

I brought the car back to STS to see what they would do for me. They cross rotated the tires... Still pulling to the right

Yesterday I brought it back... They did an alignment on an OLDER Hunter alignment machine... However, they didnt touch the front, just adjusted the rear toe because it was out... The front read: 0.00/0.00... I dont know how, when the alignment wasnt even THAT zeroed out after Sears did it!

But anyway, Im noticing that to keep the car steering straight, I have to have the steering wheel kocked to the left a little bit... If I straighten the wheel out, the car pulls to the right.

The manager at STS thinks that what happened was, the steering wheel was too far to the right during one of my previous alignments, and it straightens itself out when driving... When it straightens itself out, it pulls to the right since the wheel is off center...

Im thinking that ALSO, all the "slop"/play wasn't taken out of the steering when Sears aligned it last as well, and maybe that can be attributing to a little drift/pullage...


Anyway, does that make sense? If the steering wheel is adjusted too far to the right- meaning that I would have to hold the wheel slightly to the left to keep the car straight- BUT the wheels/alignment is in spec and the alignment machine says that the car should be tracking straight, could the wheel being off center make the car pull to the right? Like, does the steering wheel still return to TDC no matter how off center it is set in an alignment?

Please let me know if I lost you (anyone) while you were reading this...

But basically, are our steering wheels weighted/counterweighted? Or do our clocksprings force our steering wheels back to TDC regardless of alignment? Is there ANYWAY that having a steering wheel set a couple degrees off can make a car pull in that direction?

Thanks
I have had the same problem for quite a bit of time now. After I have switched to Conti Procontact, my car began to pull. I had it aligned 2 times, and both times I was told that my alignment is with in the spec. I had the wheels balanced several times, they even matched the high spot in my rims to the low spot on my tires, still nothing. It would always pull to the left, even after I rotated the tires (front to back), two days ago I rotated my tires left to right, and now my car pulls to the right. I have the same issue with a sterring wheel as well, it is off to the side a bit, but after I rotated the tires (left to right) it was ****ed to the other side.

I am guessing that one of the belts is busted in the tire, or one of my rims is bent beyond the tolerance where the balancer can fix it :dunno:

What I did notice though, when I upped my tire pressure to 36 front and 34 rear, it started to pull less.

I wonder if it is some kind of a manufacturer defect? :dunno:

I subscribing to this post........:thmsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The centering of the steering wheel is a function of the caster angle, in theory the steering wheel angle can be off a bit and the car would still track straight and true if the alignment is done correctly, all a shop need to do to re-center the steering wheel is to extend one steering tie-rod by a few threads and reduce the other steering tie-rod by the same amount. Anothe rpossibility is that steering wheel is off by one spline when it was fitted to the steering column but that would cause at least 5 degrees or so.

It's simple mechanics 101.
Makes sense
I have had the same problem for quite a bit of time now. After I have switched to Conti Procontact, my car began to pull. I had it aligned 2 times, and both times I was told that my alignment is with in the spec. I had the wheels balanced several times, they even matched the high spot in my rims to the low spot on my tires, still nothing. It would always pull to the left, even after I rotated the tires (front to back), two days ago I rotated my tires left to right, and now my car pulls to the right. I have the same issue with a sterring wheel as well, it is off to the side a bit, but after I rotated the tires (left to right) it was ****ed to the other side.

I am guessing that one of the belts is busted in the tire, or one of my rims is bent beyond the tolerance where the balancer can fix it :dunno:

What I did notice though, when I upped my tire pressure to 36 front and 34 rear, it started to pull less.

I wonder if it is some kind of a manufacturer defect? :dunno:

I subscribing to this post........:thmsup:
You know, its funny... With the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires, they had crappy grip and crappy ride comfort... But they were at least precise...

WIth the Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires, they have super wet/dry grip and decent comfort, but make the steering vague and somewhat elastic... And now it pulls like crazy...

Through STS I can get other tires in these tires' place... I think I may go for some other tires if this (resetting the steering wheel) doesnt fix this pulling thing.

Maybe Ill go for somewhat less expensive tires like Hankooks or Generals or SOMETHING... This is becoming crazy already.


Hey Aviography, how are those Bridgestone Pole Positions?
 

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Any alignment shop is supposed to center the steering wheel after doing toe alignment. Camber/caster/toe in my case.

So, go back and ask them to center the steering wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Any alignment shop is supposed to center the steering wheel after doing toe alignment. Camber/caster/toe in my case.

So, go back and ask them to center the steering wheel.
Theyre going to try on Friday... If that doesnt work, Im going to attribute it to tire pull... Even though they cross rotated them...

And if its that, Im going to swap tires for other ones... Looking at Yokohamas and some others.

In the midst of making a thread about it lol
 

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Yeah, center the wheel and CLAMP it. Lazy bas**** sometimes let the indexing of the steering wheel to the tires change during the alignment. The actual alignment can be perfect even so, and any drift could be due to the road crown. And then you're going down the road with the steering wheel ****ed in a funny direction.

This can be a safety hazard. You straighten the wheel, and the car is still veering.... I've been there. Heading into oncoming traffic.

Go back to the last place that aligned it and DEMAND they index the steering wheel. It isn't going to be a big deal, as another poster said, they'll just twist the opposing tie rods equally in opposite directions until everything matches up.

Bas*****!! I hate techs that try to get away with this.
 

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Makes sense


You know, its funny... With the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires, they had crappy grip and crappy ride comfort... But they were at least precise...

WIth the Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires, they have super wet/dry grip and decent comfort, but make the steering vague and somewhat elastic... And now it pulls like crazy...

Through STS I can get other tires in these tires' place... I think I may go for some other tires if this (resetting the steering wheel) doesnt fix this pulling thing.

Maybe Ill go for somewhat less expensive tires like Hankooks or Generals or SOMETHING... This is becoming crazy already.


Hey Aviography, how are those Bridgestone Pole Positions?
Did you try inflating them a bit more? conti max psi are rated at 51, as i recall my other tires (Michelin) were rated 41. IDK if that has anything to do with the vague steering response.
 

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If you do decide to change tires, try to find out which ones "track" the best. My stock Michelins were pretty good at holding direction. The Bridgestones, like you said about the Conti's, have better grip and traction, but don't hold center very well, and I have to make more corrections to stay straight on the road. I don't think tirerack.com includes "tracking" in their tire tests though.
 

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I bought the the cont dws too. Same problem. But they are so much better in all other areas. I can actually Hear the engine again and the car rides much better. I think the tires are getting better as far as tracking each time I drive her.
I surmise the contis are much softer and stickier than the rock hard michs and follow the contours and ruts more than the michs. They will track the other way if you go down the left side of the road. Give it some time. Btw, I now have 33lbs all around rather than the 32-29 as recommended. Seems to help.
 

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I bought the the cont dws too. Same problem. But they are so much better in all other areas. I can actually Hear the engine again and the car rides much better. I think the tires are getting better as far as tracking each time I drive her.
I surmise the contis are much softer and stickier than the rock hard michs and follow the contours and ruts more than the michs. They will track the other way if you go down the left side of the road. Give it some time. Btw, I now have 33lbs all around rather than the 32-29 as recommended. Seems to help.
Another person with a pulling issue on conti's.

I am leaning toward hankook tires, can anyone report if they have an issue with them?

+1 on the higher tire pressure with conti's.......help alot.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Did you try inflating them a bit more? conti max psi are rated at 51, as i recall my other tires (Michelin) were rated 41. IDK if that has anything to do with the vague steering response.
Today I inflated the fronts to what looked like 35psi, and the rears stayed at 30. Helped a bit with the soft steering response, but the pull was still there.
If you do decide to change tires, try to find out which ones "track" the best. My stock Michelins were pretty good at holding direction. The Bridgestones, like you said about the Conti's, have better grip and traction, but don't hold center very well, and I have to make more corrections to stay straight on the road. I don't think tirerack.com includes "tracking" in their tire tests though.
Yeah, I don't think TireRack tests tracking either... But I am leaning toward Yokohama Avid ENVigor tires... Anybody know about those?
I bought the the cont dws too. Same problem. But they are so much better in all other areas. I can actually Hear the engine again and the car rides much better. I think the tires are getting better as far as tracking each time I drive her.
I surmise the contis are much softer and stickier than the rock hard michs and follow the contours and ruts more than the michs. They will track the other way if you go down the left side of the road. Give it some time. Btw, I now have 33lbs all around rather than the 32-29 as recommended. Seems to help.
You are right, The DWS are a great tire, except for this pulling crap
Another person with a pulling issue on conti's.

I am leaning toward hankook tires, can anyone report if they have an issue with them?

+1 on the higher tire pressure with conti's.......help alot.

Funny thing is, even AFTER a cross rotation of the tires, there is till a pulling to the right... I dont know lol... I am thinking about Yokohama Avid ENVigors if it turns out to be a tire pull issue...

It would be just my luck if I switched tires, and the car still pulled to the right lol :nuts:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Oh, and here are the readings from my last alignment that was done (by STS tire) which I forgot to post up.

Front

Caster:
Left 2.7/ Right 2.7

Camber:
Left 0.3/ Right 0.2

Toe:
Left 0.00/ Right 0.00

Rear

Camber:
Left -.4/ Right -.8

Toe:
Left 0.05/ Right 0.05


Im thinking that my rear camber reading was like that because I had a bunch of unnecessary stuff in the trunk, and 3/4 tank of gas...

Can anybody tell me a bit more about my steering issue from this reading?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
well, I just stumbled across the Nasioc forum and came across a thread about Conti DWS tires... It seems that many people out there have experienced pulling to the right with these tires, and wandering... Also, those who have experienced the pulling to the right have rotated/cross rotated the tires to no avail... Maybe a small improvement like mine had.

Interesting. Now I know Im not going crazy... Hopefully it is JUST the tires with mine
 

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well, I just stumbled across the Nasioc forum and came across a thread about Conti DWS tires... It seems that many people out there have experienced pulling to the right with these tires, and wandering... Also, those who have experienced the pulling to the right have rotated/cross rotated the tires to no avail... Maybe a small improvement like mine had.

Interesting. Now I know Im not going crazy... Hopefully it is JUST the tires with mine

try taking your left side wheels and put them on the right side, it should change the direction of the pull, do not cross rotate them.

it did on mine, but maybe I have a different problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
try taking your left side wheels and put them on the right side, it should change the direction of the pull, do not cross rotate them.

it did on mine, but maybe I have a different problem.
Did that in the front first... Made the car feel like the front two tires were pulling against each other
 
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