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Discussion Starter #1
I have been off from work for the last few days and have spent a good bit of time on the cars. As I would like to replace the coolant, which I believe may be original in the '03 V6 (and the reserve tank is empty), I want to know if they will be removing the rad or cool hoses, thereby wasting anything I do before Wed, which is when it goes for engine and tranny (Caitlyn Jenner) mounts.:laugh

I've already replaced the brake fluid, bled the sh*t out of the lines, replaced all the bleeder screws as they were shot, did 2 quick ATF changes 50 miles apart, 1 left, and then replace the ATF filter which is never easy. Oh, and I cleaned the throttle body as she was throwing a P0506 code. Also cleaned the engine bay by hand.

I'd like to do the coolant either later tonight when it cools off, or in the morning, but if the Honda mechanic is simply going to dump it, I'll leave it be.

Honda mechanics, I'd love to hear from you as to how you do it in the shop. Thanks.
 

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They might drain the coolant, and remove one end of the upper radiator hose, but unless you are paying for a coolant change, they will just pour the same coolant back in. The only way to know for sure, is to ask. Each mechanic probably has his own way of doing it. Some might remove the passenger side cooling fan, and get the front mount out that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks. That's what I thought. although I find it funny that there is no set procedure for removing the mounts. The FSM doesn't have one, and neither does Alldata. I guess it's however you can get to them, then go for it.

Seeing as how they're not likely to crack the block nipple, I'll do it myself when I get it back. I don't think it has ever been changed in 12 years. Which the service rep says is fine. I don't see how. But then again, I am not a Honda trained mechanic.
 

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Has the timing belt/water pump been done yet? When you remove the water pump, that's when you can get the most old coolant out, so it's the best time to do a coolant change. Otherwise, yes I would drain the rear side of the block to get as much out as possible. I don't like the idea of flushing it with water, because the water that remains in the block will dilute the 50/50 mix if you use the Honda type 2.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nope, haven't done the T-Belt & water pump yet.

Guess I'll just bite the bullet and drain and replace. Rather be safe than sorry especially with these 100 degree FL days.
 

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Nope, haven't done the T-Belt & water pump yet.

Guess I'll just bite the bullet and drain and replace. Rather be safe than sorry especially with these 100 degree FL days.
How many miles does the car have? The timing belt has never been changed? I know the belts can and do last well past the 7 year, 105k mile interval in the owner's manual, but don't you think you are pushing it at 12 years? Are you planning to do it any time soon? I haven't heard of any timing belts breaking on these engines, but there's always a first time. Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As the '03 is my mother's car, and she knows nothing about cars, I try to everything I can to make sure she has a reliable car. She's 74 and doesn't drive much, but when she does it's less than 5 miles round trip. I also bought her the Premium AAA membership.

BLCKFLESH, her car is just about to turn 90k on the clock. She really doesn't drive it all that often. And it is in perfect mechanical order. Just spent a grand to fix the damage to the passenger side. If I am able to find a special on the T belt and the water pump, I'll jump all over it. The dealer who is installing the mounts said he'd do it for $450 labor if I buy the OEM parts. That's exactly the 4.6 hours listed in the book. And he'd have his mechanic replace the water pump, serp belt (which I've already changed twice with Goodyear) and tensioner for the same $450.

I cannot neglect the t-belt as it's her only car and she refuses to buy another. She says after all the blood and sweat I lost working on her car, she'd never think of parting with it. It's never thrown a code, until this past week with that ridiculous P0506 code. Dirty throttle body. Ran vacuum tests. All good. Hey and btw, I've been trying to donate and cannot for the life of me find the link. Got any ideas?

Now, I am about to buy a 2006 V6 6MT in Carbon with a black gut. 77,000 miles. Spoke to him today and called the local Honda dealer and set up a pre-inspection at Honda's shop. If every thing comes back ok, I am gonna fly out and drive her back. I can't wait. Got it for 8,700.

And while I have you, let me say that you have been the most help to me over the years with advice and information. Wish I knew you personally. You seem like a you'd be a good friend.
 

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I have been off from work for the last few days and have spent a good bit of time on the cars. As I would like to replace the coolant, which I believe may be original in the '03 V6 (and the reserve tank is empty), I want to know if they will be removing the rad or cool hoses, thereby wasting anything I do before Wed, which is when it goes for engine and tranny (Caitlyn Jenner) mounts.:laugh

I've already replaced the brake fluid, bled the sh*t out of the lines, replaced all the bleeder screws as they were shot, did 2 quick ATF changes 50 miles apart, 1 left, and then replace the ATF filter which is never easy. Oh, and I cleaned the throttle body as she was throwing a P0506 code. Also cleaned the engine bay by hand.

I'd like to do the coolant either later tonight when it cools off, or in the morning, but if the Honda mechanic is simply going to dump it, I'll leave it be.

Honda mechanics, I'd love to hear from you as to how you do it in the shop. Thanks.
They are a bitch, but doable in the driveway. remove the side mount to gain flexibility so you can jack the motor up by the oil pan to gain room when needed. There is one bolt out of the four lower mount bolts that is almost impossible to reach. we typically snap off the welded nut underneath with a 1/2" impact gun, then nut and bolt it for the install. (THERE IS ZERO PROBLEM WITH THAT) I typically can snake it out without removing the coolant hose, but if you want a flush, than remove it and drain the coolant, then fill it.

BLACKFISH - I have NEVER seen anybody ever use old coolant to top off. We always have spare coolant that we use for top off. WHen you get a bill from a dealer you will see "shop charges" on the bill. That is what the shop charges are for. fluid top off, grinding wheels, ect. If they feel they will use a decent amount then they will include the coolant as part of the parts quote. If you have heard of a technician reusing fluids then he/she is a HACK and should not be working on your car.

Also make sure you install ALL of the hardware beforee you tighten any of it. That way you can avoid cross threading anything if you cant line up the hardware.

If your front mount is blown and has been "thumping" during acceleration, chances are you blew your side mount as well due the the accessive movement. You can verify this by having someone brake-torque the motor while you look for cracks in the side mount. (careful while you do this for obvious reasons)

Personally, its hard for me to picture my procedure without seeing the car in front of me. feel free to Hit me up if you have further questions. I can always fax over repair manual info if you think it would help.
 

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They are a bitch, but doable in the driveway. remove the side mount to gain flexibility so you can jack the motor up by the oil pan to gain room when needed. There is one bolt out of the four lower mount bolts that is almost impossible to reach. we typically snap off the welded nut underneath with a 1/2" impact gun, then nut and bolt it for the install. (THERE IS ZERO PROBLEM WITH THAT) I typically can snake it out without removing the coolant hose, but if you want a flush, than remove it and drain the coolant, then fill it.
If you are talking about the front engine mount, then I don't know why you need to snap off any welded nut. They are welded for a reason. They are for the engine mounts and aren't suppose to move at all. If you snap them off, then they might come loose from vibrations unless you use loctite. Same goes for the various suspension nuts that are welded on. If you are going about it the rough and quick way, then yeah, snap off the welded nuts and drain and remove the upper coolant hose. Both of those operations are unnecessary. I detailed this in another thread. Move the coolant overflow tank out of the way and remove the A/C condenser fan that's it, you don't even need to remove the lower splash shield. There is no impossible bolt to remove for the front mount. I was able to get to all using extensions and a 3/4" swivel joint with 14mm shallow socket. ALL HAND TOOLS, no impact tool of any kind.

There are smart ways to do things, that might take a little bit longer, then there are the quick, dirty, and not so smart ways to do things. This is why I stopped taking my car to shops.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you are talking about the front engine mount, then I don't know why you need to snap off any welded nut. They are welded for a reason. They are for the engine mounts and aren't suppose to move at all. If you snap them off, then they might come loose from vibrations unless you use loctite. Same goes for the various suspension nuts that are welded on. If you are going about it the rough and quick way, then yeah, snap off the welded nuts and drain and remove the upper coolant hose. Both of those operations are unnecessary. I detailed this in another thread. Move the coolant overflow tank out of the way and remove the A/C condenser fan that's it, you don't even need to remove the lower splash shield. There is no impossible bolt to remove for the front mount. I was able to get to all using extensions and a 3/4" swivel joint with 14mm shallow socket. ALL HAND TOOLS, no impact tool of any kind.

There are smart ways to do things, that might take a little bit longer, then there are the quick, dirty, and not so smart ways to do things. This is why I stopped taking my car to shops.
T-RD too bad you don't live in FL. I'd have you work on my car. That is the exact reason I am hesitant to have others do work on something my loved one, or I, rely on. Unfortunately, the mechanic doesn't care enough to do it the way he would for his mother.

That's why I plan on meeting the mechanic tomorrow before I let him get started. I find once he knows the owner personally, he pays a bit more attention to the vehicle. And a $50 don't hurt either.

Actually, given the cars age, going on 13 years, I really want him to give me an honest estimate of things he sees as becoming potential problems so I may address them myself.
 

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Those welded nuts have NOTHING to do with them coming loose. To that rational what would stop the boltsfrom loosening up from the welded nuts?!?! You'd have to be an idiot to have a nut and bolt losen up on u, and most likely cause u didn't utilize lock washers and proper hardware.

As far as hand tools only that's ridiculous. We use impact tools all day long without any issues. People who don't know how to use them or aren't used to the strength they have can certainly mess things up. But again, a well seasoned tech shouldn't have a problem unless he is careless. Also I would love to see a tech in the northeast work on a car without power tools. Power tools are essential for breaking rusty hardware free.

You are right about one thing tho, I had a chance to look at that exact car cause one was in the shop today. Those four lower bolts aren't that bad. A swivel should do it. I think the application I was confusing myself with is the odyssey or pilot. I work on 5-10 honda's a day so it's easy to confuse them. And breaking that nut off is a common part of the repair. In the northeast we see hardware rusted so bad you would think its welded. we never have any issues with that at all. The bolts dont magically loosen up. And our power tools dont harm anything if u know how to use them. But that takes real world professional experience, not driveway weekend warrior style repairs. No that I don't tip my hat to people who do them.

But to each his own.
 

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I have an engineering degree, whenever I work on something, I tend to look at it first and plan it out before I charge in and redneck the job. Rednecking the job is exactly what I've seen in the past with various shops. So I stopped letting people work on my car. The only shop I still go to once in a while is just my local Honda dealer for big jobs or if I hit something that I can't take off. Sure it is a stealership but it's one that does perfect jobs.

Unfortunately Honda does not detail what to do to take off or install the engine or transmission mounts in the service manual. I had to discover how to do this for the front one, I will one day find an easier way for the rear one and post it here. The service manual only has torque values for all bolts. There are some details on the transmission mounts but not great, that's why I have another discussion thread on that, just search for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
While I was in the dealer today I asked the shop foreman how they actually replace the engine mounts. They have a "sub-frame" riser. I believe that's what he called it. I think they may simply lift the engine and remove the mounts, 1, 2, 3. I am sure if I googled it, I'd found out how, but don't really care. As long as they don't snap off the welded bolts, I am good to go. And get this, he said all mounts shouldn't take more than 2 hours.

Yet, they're charging me for 4.6. Yuck. At least I won't need to spend two days in bed after doing the job myself. And I did save over $200 buying my parts through Bernardi's.
 

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Finally found it on Alldata. They have the mount removal listed under Transmission Removal. At least it gives us an idea as to how they do it. This confirms what the tech told me at the dealer.
 

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As far as hand tools only that's ridiculous. We use impact tools all day long without any issues. People who don't know how to use them or aren't used to the strength they have can certainly mess things up. But again, a well seasoned tech shouldn't have a problem unless he is careless. Also I would love to see a tech in the northeast work on a car without power tools. Power tools are essential for breaking rusty hardware free.

But to each his own.
Rant that's not directed at you:

I don't mind impacts for undoing hardware or snugging it up (which is how I use them), what bugs the crap out of me is the "rush rush" method of using impacts for final fastening. Don't care how calibrated anyone thinks their finger is, I don't want to deal with a bolt tightened to double its spec torque because some yahoo was in a hurry. You can't even pay anyone nowadays to do it by the book because it's all about getting the job done as fast as possible for max $ / hr.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
^+1 That's why I try to hang around the mechanic. I usually tip the service rep who checks me in $20. That gets me on the garage floor (after I politely ask the service rep). Then I tip the mechanic $20 before he starts while I tell him exactly what I want done, and more importantly, what I DON'T want done. Last week at Sears, he actually went looking for his torque wrench after putting the lugs on by hand (mine was the only car in the garage at the time so there was no rush). Yes, it took maybe ten minutes more, but hey, it's my car and they're my rotors and if he warps them, do you think he'll pay to replace them. I've had too many rotors warped before I realized why it was happening. Only dealer who took the time to use a torque wrench was Open Road BMW in Edison, NJ. But then again, the mechanics wear white coats and treat your car like it was their own. And they never, ever accepted tips. Boy, do I miss that M3.
 
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