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Ryland L. Loncharich
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112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So you guys may remember my post on Dynamat within my Trunk Lining and the Rear Interior area.

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2165482

Well, I ended up getting everything done in hopes of drowning out the sound that was causing my ears to ring at a certain speed. Happily I can say that it does indeed work. Its not perfect but it is never going to be. But at least my car is overall quieter from everything. The exhaust sound, the vibrations, the tires bouncing noise - everything is so much quieter.

With Borla finally releasing their Axle Back for the V6, I think some of you may run into a similar problem (hopefully not). So if you do, this is the final route I went with for sound deadening and some information about it:



Road Kill Stealth:
http://stingerelectronics.com/productDetails.aspx?ProductId=615&CategoryID=12

One box of this pretty much covered the 50% of the car we focused on. We used it from the rear seat foot wells, rear panels and fenders and back to the end of the trunk. It was applied with roughly 35% coverage of each panel it was added too in order to cancel vibration.



1/4 Inch Dynaliner

http://www.dynamatstore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=118

I spoke with a highly well known shop that is down here in Sarasota, Florida (SRQcustoms) and they recommended Dynaliner as the best secondary layer of sound deadening for my goals (less sound and minimal weight addition). Sure, there are cheaper products but I trust what these guys say and went with it. This is a secondary layer that goes over the Roadkill (or any similar product that stops panel vibration). I ordered [2x] 32x54x1/4 Inch rolls and we used nearly all of it.



Auralex StudioFoam Wedgie Panels:

http://www.auralex.com/acoustic_foam_wedgies/acoustic_foam_wedgies.asp

This was the final stage we did too the car. Wherever there was large open spaces (rear fenders, spare tire chamber etc.) we lined them in an alternating fashion to fill in the spaces. Usually this was the third layer but in some cases, it was the only layer (such as in the fender area). I ordered [2x] sets of 24 for a total of 48 panels. We ended up using 38 of these. Someone may say "Why not just use all of it" well, as with anything you eventually build a barrier that cant be passed so what is the point when it makes no difference. I rather keep the weight off the car.



By no means I am saying this is what everyone has to do or the route you have to go. This is what I chose to do and it was definitely an expensive route. When everything was said and done, the total of running this method through the rear passenger foot wells, to the rear panels and fenders, to the wheel liner, to the trunk liner and ending in the trunk lid itself - was $825.00.

I would recommend anyone looking into doing this to do whole lot of research and figuring out what is the best way for you to do it. Everyone has a limitation to work with may it be price, weight addition, time to do this or product selection.

At the end of the day was it worth it? I think so. The vibrations are gone and so is the ear ringing sound. On top of that, without a doubt the car is quieter then your more premium level Lexus or Audi. I compared it with my friends IS 350 F Sport and another's Audi A8 and it easily is on par or better. I may even continue to finish the front of the car off due to how much of a difference this made.

Oh, and from what we can figure out, this added around 70 pounds of weight to my Coupe. I believe I lost around 20 pounds off the exhaust/intake with my aftermarket parts so I am at a net gain of around 50 pounds. I hope this helps anyone who runs into the same issue. Best of luck with any noise issues.
 

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Ryland L. Loncharich
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112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Why not put MLV down? That's your noise barrier.
From what I heard in comparing the two products in person on a door, its not as good as Dynaliner and it weights anywhere from 75 - 125 pounds more for the amount we put in. If I continue with the car - it could be an easy 250 more pounds. In addition to that, it has a smell too it. A pretty nasty smell actually.

I am not saying it does not stop sound, but there was an obvious difference between MLV and Dynaliner in sound blocking as well as a huge difference in weight. Not to, again, mention the smell MLV has.

After shipping, Dynaliner was actually cheaper as well. MLV costs a fortune to ship due to its weight.
 

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Thunder Up!
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I'm not sure what you smelled, but MLV shouldn't really smell at all. It has a very slight rubber smell, but that's about it. Gone after you let it air and flatten out. Dynaliner is a CCF product. It creates a decoupling between panels/whatever, which has been proven to not really help as much as you'd think. Don at SDS has done many experiments and has talked with countless people on this subject. There's also tons of good info on his site if you're up for reading.

MLV does weight more, but that's the price you pay. IT IS your best approach at blocking road/wind/whatever noise. You also have to look at whatever frequency wavelength you're trying to overcome (along with space/air density)...usually thicker is better for a lower/larger amount of frequencies. Make sure you're only using a dampening tile or CSD layer on large FLAT surfaces as those are the ones that resonate. Many cover entire door panels, etc...but that's not needed. Just added weight



...unless you want to go old school with a LEAD barrier, but that's a little dangerous lol
 

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Ryland L. Loncharich
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112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm not sure what you smelled, but MLV shouldn't really smell at all. It has a very slight rubber smell, but that's about it. Gone after you let it air and flatten out. Dynaliner is a CCF product. It creates a decoupling between panels/whatever, which has been proven to not really help as much as you'd think. Don at SDS has done many experiments and has talked with countless people on this subject. There's also tons of good info on his site if you're up for reading.

MLV does weight more, but that's the price you pay. IT IS your best approach at blocking road/wind/whatever noise. You also have to look at whatever frequency wavelength you're trying to overcome (along with space/air density)...usually thicker is better for a lower/larger amount of frequencies. Make sure you're only using a dampening tile or CSD layer on large FLAT surfaces as those are the ones that resonate. Many cover entire door panels, etc...but that's not needed. Just added weight



...unless you want to go old school with a LEAD barrier, but that's a little dangerous lol

Well, you can say what you want - I have it in my car and it was a clear winner over MLV in person hearing the sound differences.

In addition, MLV was not what was the main source of vibrations being stopped. The Roadkill was. We just added Dynaliner since we were already taking the car apart.

I actually contacted Don and he even states on his website that MLV has a very bitter smell. He even states why and also states he has had a few clients remove MLV due to the smell. It does not magically air out especially since it is contained under all the paneling, carpet, plastic pieces etc.

After talking to him, I chose to go with Dynaliner because of how much money it would cost for him to ship out MLV that is not made from recycled products. I also did not want the weight.

Don also agreed that Dynaliner was the best move if weight is my concern. Like I said, I did my research on this.

Now there is the fact that everyone hears sound differently so maybe to me, the Dynaliner sounded more quiet and too you it would not.

At the end of the day, I myself along with a lot of other well known auto companies say Dynaliner was the better product by a long shot.
 

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Well, you can say what you want - I have it in my car and it was a clear winner over MLV in person hearing the sound differences.

In addition, MLV was not what was the main source of vibrations being stopped. The Roadkill was. We just added Dynaliner since we were already taking the car apart.

I actually contacted Don and he even states on his website that MLV has a very bitter smell. He even states why and also states he has had a few clients remove MLV due to the smell. It does not magically air out especially since it is contained under all the paneling, carpet, plastic pieces etc.

After talking to him, I chose to go with Dynaliner because of how much money it would cost for him to ship out MLV that is not made from recycled products. I also did not want the weight.

Don also agreed that Dynaliner was the best move if weight is my concern. Like I said, I did my research on this.

Now there is the fact that everyone hears sound differently so maybe to me, the Dynaliner sounded more quiet and too you it would not.

At the end of the day, I myself along with a lot of other well known auto companies say Dynaliner was the better product by a long shot.
So you covered the entire floorboard and trunk area with each product, took SPL readings in car over various surfaces and found that a CCF was a better noise barrier?! Wow. I'd love to see those results whenever you get a chance. You pointed out very clearly that you were attempting to LOWER SOUND. Not defeat rattles or decouple panel/car noises that are inherent to the car. You can't cheat physics. There's no way around it. Not that me or you know about or have access to anyways.

Don states that the product smells because he's a stand up guy and if he didn't he have every other person calling him up asking for a portion back because it 'smells'. Of course he's going to tell you to go with Dynaliner as it's your main goal. Hell...he probably should have said strip everything and run no interior! It's the same reason he makes you take measurements before you order. He's not here to make a quick buck on everyone. Who knows, he could have realized there was no changing your mind lol. I have had it in multiple cars, used it in friends cars and have seen it installed in TOOONS of cars...with no issues of smell. Sure it smells when it's unpacked, but that's not bad at all and obviously decreases over a short period of time. Like a plasticizer. It's sure as hell not anywhere near what most asphalt-based, mass loading deadeners smell like. Not to mention its physical properties are better, meaning it won't run when heated. That's for a totally different issue anyways.

I'm not here to point fingers, call you stupid, etc......I'm here to tell you that you could have made a MUCH larger difference in lowering dB's by using something like MLV. Now, if you have rattles due to this exhaust then you need to find the source of the resonances and take care of the flat surfaces. Sure your weight is lower, but it's a freakin Accord for christ sake. What are you trying to accomplish in an Accord lol. Again, it's up to you to figure out what matters more...weight or noise reduction. You chose weight. I don't think money was really an issue as I sit here looking at your signature. You are certainly correct that everyone hears slightly different, but when cutting dB's from the car either party is going to know which is the better product for the job. AGAIN, one is a decoupler and one is a noise barrier. I don't know of anyone that actually knows what they're doing that when asked "What blocks noise better...CCF or MLV" ...would say CCF. It's just not what it's meant for. Again, this is not meant to start something. Not what I'm here for. Just pointing out things
 

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The gas tank seems to have poor/lack of use of baffles. I always hear swooshing when the tank is full. I wonder if this sound can be reduced with sound dampening.
 

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Ryland L. Loncharich
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112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That might have come off a little mean lol. Bad night last night
I only skimmed over what you wrote and I don't even need to read your post any further. DB's don't even matter with the way each person individually perceives sound. It is the exact reason I heard the ringing and no one else in my car does. I perceive the sound differently. That is a simple fact. Not to mention I listed how many reasons why I did not use it and you keep focusing on the one reason that was resolved by the method I chose:

Price
Weight
Smell
Same Results as Dynaliner - Sound Gone.

I stated many times my goal was to stop the vibrations without adding weight. MLV is obviously not going to achieve this. 250+ Pounds in my car is ridiculous. If I wanted a luxury car that weighed 4,000 pounds, I would have bought a Lexus IS or Infinit G37 Convertible in the first place.

If you actually had any clue what I was talking about with my exhaust - you would know sound is a vibration. They are not two different things. MLV focuses on deflecting outside noise/vibrations that are airborne from coming into the car. You keep throwing Don's site out there, I think you need to read it for yourself. He states that as well as nearly any reputable car shop. Don also has his website listed out in line of attacks with each product. Scroll down to MLV - it is listed right with airborne sounds from the exterior.

My goal was to reduce a vibration the exhaust was causing inside of the car through the panels with adding as little weight as possible. To do that, I needed to silence the panels which is where Roadkill is the main focus.

If you love MLV so much, go toss it into your car and enjoy the smell and weight.
 

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Thank you for this guide! For this car, I used Don's guide with MLV(it doesnt give away smell for me, but added weight), CLD(25% coverage), CCF, and 3M thinsulate. For my total makeover, I added about 120lbs of weight. Not noticeable. I must have been very diligent on material use. The materials here seem to be lighter which is always great. Maybe on my next car, I will consider these materials.
 

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I only skimmed over what you wrote and I don't even need to read your post any further. DB's don't even matter with the way each person individually perceives sound. It is the exact reason I heard the ringing and no one else in my car does. I perceive the sound differently. That is a simple fact.

Each person hears slightly different, but in the exact same fashion and that can be measured in dB's. That is blatantly obvious I'd hope. Like we both mentioned, each person does it fact hear different, but that does NOT change physics or physical properties of materials. THAT is what you don't seem to grasp. Just because you hear differently doesn't mean MLV wouldn't have been as effective for you. What you perceived is still a frequency at a specific volume level. There is no getting around that. If Dynaliner knocked down 4dB's and MLV knocked down 20dB's then you'd still want to choose MLV for pure sound reduction...unless you have a massive gap in the human hearing spectrum that I don't know about.

Not to mention I listed how many reasons why I did not use it and you keep focusing on the one reason that was resolved by the method I chose:

Price - Sure it's more expensive, but if it's 20% more expensive, but has reduces your dB's levels by 10dB, which is 'perceived' as nearly half the volume then that's a huge plus for that specific product
Weight - Weight, sure. That's the only thing Dynaliner has on it. It's your car and I've already mentioned that. I could care less what you do lol, but I'm just here to point out it's an Accord lol....not a P1. Density of the Dynaliner looks pretty good actually, but I've always know weight (and density obviously) to be the best for this particular problem
Smell - Again....it doesn't smell after a very short period. It hardly smells at all at first. Someone below has mentioned it also. Maybe Don just realized he couldn't sway you at this point
Same Results as Dynaliner - Sound Gone. That's good! :thmsup:

I stated many times my goal was to stop the vibrations without adding weight. MLV is obviously not going to achieve this. 250+ Pounds in my car is ridiculous. If I wanted a luxury car that weighed 4,000 pounds, I would have bought a Lexus IS or Infinit G37 Convertible in the first place.

250+ lbs? Where in the world are you getting this? You're not putting down lead!

If you actually had any clue what I was talking about with my exhaust - you would know sound is a vibration. They are not two different things. MLV focuses on deflecting outside noise/vibrations that are airborne from coming into the car. You keep throwing Don's site out there, I think you need to read it for yourself. He states that as well as nearly any reputable car shop. Don also has his website listed out in line of attacks with each product. Scroll down to MLV - it is listed right with airborne sounds from the exterior.

My goal was to reduce a vibration the exhaust was causing inside of the car through the panels with adding as little weight as possible. To do that, I needed to silence the panels which is where Roadkill is the main focus.

If all you needed to do was to stop resonances, then why did you install multiple products? Dynaliner is NOT the product for that. I'm just confused because you claimed you wanted to save weight, but you added products you didn't need according to you. You mentioned price also, but yet you purchased products your didn't need according to you. You keep mentioning you want to stop a noise from entering the cabin and then complain about a vibration. Those are 2 different situations. If you want to stop the vibration you'd use a specific product. If you wanted to isolate the cabin, then you would use another type of product (MLV). If you're so worried about weight then why not look at possible exhaust solutions that might possibly weight less than what you've done?

If you love MLV so much, go toss it into your car and enjoy the smell and weight.
Okay big man. :thmsup: Good luck. Some people will do anything for justification of their purchase
 

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Mod it or don't drive it
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I've used dynamat on the trunk lid before to help stop rattles caused by some 12's but using sound deadinging material on the whole car? I have a better solution. Play your music when you drive and you won't hear any of the road noise mentioned.
 

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@milmast
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I've used dynamat on the trunk lid before to help stop rattles caused by some 12's but using sound deadinging material on the whole car? I have a better solution. Play your music when you drive and you won't hear any of the road noise mentioned.
Same here. I deleted my cats, my resonator, my silencer, and have an aftermarket exhaust, which makes my car LOUD AS F*CK. On the highway going 120, there is alot of drone, and what i do to get rid of it, is turn up the sound system to drone the exhaust note out.
 

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Lol, that is not the point of sound insulation for me. While it may stop rattles, my emphasis was to make the car quiet from road and wind noise, while keeping the engine humming somewhere in the background.
 

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Mod it or don't drive it
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Same here. I deleted my cats, my resonator, my silencer, and have an aftermarket exhaust, which makes my car LOUD AS F*CK. On the highway going 120, there is alot of drone, and what i do to get rid of it, is turn up the sound system to drone the exhaust note out.
I had a similar setup on a different car that had long tube headers, and offroad x-pipe, and a loud mouth catback. It was so damn loud on the highway that I refused to drive on the highway. Eventually I put some high flow cats on to make it less loud because it was barely drivable. In that car, the sound system didn't do a damn bit of good to cover the noise. I literally had to use ear plugs.
 

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I had a similar setup on a different car that had long tube headers, and offroad x-pipe, and a loud mouth catback. It was so damn loud on the highway that I refused to drive on the highway. Eventually I put some high flow cats on to make it less loud because it was barely drivable. In that car, the sound system didn't do a damn bit of good to cover the noise. I literally had to use ear plugs.
Mustang?

I didn't have longtubes on it, but I had a UPR o/r x-pipe and a borla stinger catback on my '01 cobra for awhile. Damn it sounded good, but it was loud! Always wanted to do something like that to my dads '04 Lightning, but he sold it damn near as quickly as he bought it. To this day I still wish I would have told him to keep it for me (I was a soph in college then...about 5 years ago). It had under 10,000 miles when he sold it haha. PRISTINE!
 
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