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The Shadow II
2021 Accord Touring Hybrid in MSM
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Current car =- 2020 2.0 Touring

Prior car = 2014 2.4L EXL

For various reasons considering 2021 Hybrid Touring versus EXL Hybrid.

But nobody is going to let me have a 100 mile test drive. Not these days.

1) Power.

Yes, I know I am giving up power. But the '14 2.4 EXL met my minimal test. Minimally.

My minimal test is mimicking a Pain in the Arse interstate merge if I have to completely yield to other traffic. In my test I enter a state hwy from a complete stop from a side road, must control the vehicle through the 90 degree turn and hit 60mph before crossing a specific line on the road and still have some reserve power available.

So it was more like a 10/15 to 60 test versus a raw 0-60 test

And yes, this is a real world issue. About 1/month I end up having to yield to zero and then doing a standing start to 60. Or I am at 60 trying to merge and have to punch it to get ahead of trucks who can't move over because of traffic.

The '14 2.4L at nearly full max out after making the turn the car hit 70. Enough power but not a lot of excess. And several times per year I would find it lacking. And braking down to 30 and then trying to merge into the interstate isn't ideal.

The '20 2.0 Touring at like 3/4 throttle after the turn hits 80+. Ample power.

Observation: All the MT and C&D tests indicate the Hybrid has good power. Clearly more power than the current base turbo 1.5. Betterish than my old '14 2.4L in raw numbers.

Question: But is the hybrid going to run out of go-go juice trying my merge test? Do you find repeated accelerations drain the power reserves?

Feature Set:

Touring over the EXL has:

Active Dampeners;

I found the 17" wheels on the 2014 EXL to be stiff and noisy. Obviously I have the same opinion of the 19" on my current touring with AD.

But the 19's handle better

Question: Has anybody compared the ride/noise of the EXL with the smaller wheels and no AD to the Touring with larger wheels and AD?.

Other Features

Vented Seats. Yes, I use the feature.

Rain Sensing Wipers. LOVE the feature. And it rains in South Mississippi.

HUD: Sure, it is nice. In the Hybrid the HUD can show power info.

And some other things none of which move the needle for me.

So the difference between the EXL and the Touring is $3K which consists of

Active Dampeners

Bigger wheels. Whoopee.

Vented Seats

Rain Sensing Wipers

and a HUD that is nice.

I can have the EXL today, the Touring next week. Or something like that.
 

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Hmmm interesting… I’ve had the same two cars you have had (although in different colors and had a couple cars in between). I’ve test driven the hybrids from both gens briefly and liked both too, so I understand where you’re coming from, but I’m really scratching my head about the desire to switch into either after reading your comments about the differences between the two. Especially now that you already have the 2.0t, you obviously place a priority on power. So what I’d do, if you don’t have to trade it, just keep the current car. The 11th gen 2023? is around the corner in a year or so anyways, why trade it now unless you have a huge new car itch or your commute has changed drastically in the last month?

But if you must I’d go with the 21 HAH Touring. The 2014 EXL was very nice and capable already, but between the quieter ride, the better interior and the number of goodies available you mentioned on ‘21HAH (which isn’t really a fair comparison) and especially the price (are you sure a new and a 7 year old used car that is almost comparable in equipment are only 3k different in price?), the choice is obvious. Very obvious, actually. Not to mention the bigger trunk space in the newer one too.

As far as your concern about ride quality, ‘20 Touring’s ride is good enough to me. It’s actually very smooth on well-paved roads. But if you’re looking for improvement I’d look at the 9th gen hybrid (why not a ‘17), but not a ‘14 HAH that’s only 3k cheaper than the new one. Or, just get the new one and ditch the 19’s.
 

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‘21 HAH EX-L Platinum White Privilege
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I chose my EX-L for several reasons over the Touring. I drove both and could afford both. I drive ~35k/yr for perspective.

17” wheels have a quieter, smoother ride and are the main contributor to the better mileage rating. The tires will be less expensive to replace. I stuck with 17’s for my extra set of wheels for the same reason, and saved 9# per wheel. If you want better handling get summer tires. I ran Michelin PSS on my previous car and they transformed it. 19’s look better but I’m inside the car so I don’t care. Plus, 17’s are less likely to get stolen.

Adaptive dampers meant nothing to me since I don’t use sport mode in my hybrid. More expensive to replace when they fail. Honda has suspension tuning figured out and the standard dampers are great.

HUD would be nice but not worth it for the price difference alone. I use cruise most of the time so I already know my speed. I had it in my Mazda6.

Rain sensing wipers in my GTI mostly just pissed me off…never the right amount at the right time. Let me do it!

Never had vented seats so my butt is living the way it always has, in both cloth and leather. Probably would be nice.

Good luck, there aren’t many on the lots and the deals are thin.
 

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Haha it makes much more sense. For some reason I was thinking OP was comparing a 2021 HAH to a 2014 HAH lol

It makes much more sense now.

I would go with the EX-L too if ride quality is a concern, especially if you’re not satisfied with what your 2020 Touring has to offer.

Or if you like the features on the touring, get the 21 HAH touring and dump the 19’s.
 
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1) Yes, I know I am giving up power. But the '14 2.4 EXL met my minimal test. Minimally.
185 HP at 6400 rpm; 181 lb-ft at 3900 rpm.

Some notes:
  1. That's SAE net HP. It means the power the engine can provide, at the crankshaft, when the only other devices it is powering at necessary for its operation. While there is no easy formula, conventionally you should expect 85% of that, or 157 HP, at the wheels. The Hybrid can produce 212 HP in much the same way, but the drive motor c an only accept 181 HP. And not coincidentally, 181 is 85% of 212. (All of Honda's iMMD hybrids have this ratio of combined power to motor power.
  2. But max HP only applies at one (engine) speed in the ICE car, but all speeds above about 38 mph (car speed) in the hybrid.
  3. The torque also applies at one engine speed only. The hybrid has 232 lb-ft at all speeds below that 38 mph. Gear ratio plays into this, but the Hybrid should do much better than the 2104 EXL in your test. SPORT mode helps, since the other modes have a built-in lag.
But is the hybrid going to run out of go-go juice trying my merge test? Do you find repeated accelerations drain the power reserves?
No. The only time it will run out is a long, steep uphill.

Toyota calls theirs "self-charging" hybrids. They misuse the term, but it is accurate. A better name is "charge-sustaining." The point is that, all by itself, the car will try to maintain a state of charge that varies over a small portion of the displayed range. In ECON mode, it is about 25% to 50%. It is higher, but less clear to me, in NORMAL and SPORT. I usually say 40% to 60%, and 70% to 90%.

The point is to have the more capacity for regen braking in ECON and NORMAL, and more capacity for quick bursts 0f power in NORMAL and SPORT. But even that 25%, which is the minimum it will ever had, should be enough fro your highway entrance. And as soon as you reach speed, the car will rune the engine harder than it otherwise would to put the SoC back in these ranges.

Active Dampeners;
Note that the point is to adjust the suspension while you drive. SPORT mode isn't just a switch from one suspension to another, it is a change to the range it aims for as you drive.

Rain Sensing Wipers. LOVE the feature. And it rains in South Mississippi.
I do too. Not everyone realizes that the rate is adjustable, so there is no reason to claim they are too fast or too slow.
 

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Been here / Done this

I went from a 2018 2.0 Touring to a 21 Hybrid touring and love it.
Yes the smaller wheels from the EXL should be quieter but i have never had any noticible noise issues with the 19's and personally like the way the car looks with 19's vs 17's

As for power in day to day. I think the HAH is great. Actually really nice on the freeway for going 65-80 as there's no turbo lag. In off the line, stop and go, it's fine BUT clearly the 2.0 when it gets going is much quicker for "Spirited" driving.

Since i use cars today as company cars and cycle thru them every 3 to 4 years all i can say is i love getting 45mpg out of the HAH Touring and I drive it like a "car" not trying to get 987 miles per tankful of gas.
HAH touring will be on my short list in 2024 when i shop again.
 

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The Shadow II
2021 Accord Touring Hybrid in MSM
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410 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The 2021 Hybrid Touring in MSM is in waiting for my signature.


Anything special, unique, unusual to the Hybrid to check before I sign?
 
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