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^In a perfect world, the dealership (and OEM) maintenance department would be in the business of recording every detail of maintenance and car conditions and doing the required service only and not suggesting anything beyond need. If a client wants more, the client can ask for it.
In the real world dealerships make much more money off of their services than off of car sales - so yes, pushing is profitable.

To be sure, many people don't care. Their lives are far too busy with other things. They don't know that their cars don't actually have a Johnson rod and don't care. Just make it go. Here's the VISA.
There's the rub what percentage of drivers on the road do you believe KNOW the service intervals or even look at them even once in the time they own a vehicle? My opinion is it is very very small, less than 25% If suggestions weren't made they'd be late on everything.

Free pro tip: Top up your blinker fluid before winter hits
 
Very few drivers know to have their flux capacitors serviced either. If it's drained, it can leave you stranded.

- Jack
 
Dealing with a dealership's service department is simple. If you believe you're being pressured or scammed into buying unnecessary additional services, and/or want to give yourself time to research the additional recommended services. Just tell the SA, that you cannot afford additional services at this time. If the SA is persistent, just repeat the statement.
 
And change your tires to winter air.
Cars used to need a summer or winter air blend, but the use of nitrogen has resulted in the recommendations being revised to a fall or spring blend. If you haven't already changed to the fall blend, your car is past due. This is also the right time to have your sunroof changed over to moonroof configuration and sealed for the winter.

Incidentally, if you're still using old summer and winter blends, expect more frequent cabin air filter changes. Those blends were way harder on filters than the newer fall and spring blends are.
 
If an F&I person, sales or serv adv starts really pressing you to buy a ton of add-ons, just tell them that the additional pressure that they are exerting on you will be reflected in the CSI report you fill out after delivery. I guarantee you they’ll shut up in two seconds.
 
I have an Accord and an RDX, both from the same family ownership, but very different dealers. The Honda dealership is where I get my work done, and I have been very satisfied. So, when I got my new RDX, I gave that dealership a try. They stink. I will not go back there again.

Each dealership is different, and is run by different managers, and has a different culture, regardless of who the top level owner is.
 
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Prior to my warranty expiring last year, I brought my accord to the dealer for a scheduled oil change and service check. They chose two parts in an attempt to fleece me: calipers, hand brake cable. Problem for them was that I had just replaced those two parts a few months prior during my purchase safety inspection, with brand new parts.

So, to repeat, the first time I brought the car into my local dealer, they for some reason chose the newest shiniest parts on the car...claiming they needed replacing. I of course showed them the receipt for the replaced parts (from a private 3rd party mech that I trust). Silence ensued, then an apology and mumbling about training.

You really can't make this stuff up. They have guts for sure. It was after this that I accelerated my learning curve so as to be able to do as much maintenance myself with minimal dealer involvement. I would go to them on targeted items only, period.
 
Let me just add that don't assume that they even know what they are doing.

I brought my car in for something that required them replacing the rear deck. First time around they didn't know that the c-pillar clips were one time use only, so they had to re-order those and make me come back a second time (FYI the maintenance manual clearly states this). They also punctured the dust cover for the sub-woofer and left one of the green clips that holds the rear tray on in the body. I ended up just taking the tray off myself and pulled out the old clip and got the tray to sit flush.

That didn't resolve my original problem so I had to bring it back again and as part of fixing the issue they had to remove the rear deck again, and while fixing it they were going to install the clips they left off last time. This time they completely broke off the connector to one of the rear tweeters, as in clean off can't be fixed. So I need a whole new tweeter. Also when they went to put the deck back in they hit the sub-woofer again with one of the supports for the deck that has a green clip on it and since it had already been punctured (just the cover, not the woofer itself) the clip fell off into the woofer. I found that out when I went to listen to a song and a god awful rattle started coming from the woofer. I contemplated bringing it back to them to fix it, but rather just decided to do it myself, this is when I went to take off the c-pillars and found out that only the driver side had the clip replaced and the passenger side clip is missing.

So long story short I'm ordering the two clips and a tweeter since it only comes out to $20 and fixing the issues myself since the idiots they have working at the dealership are too incompetent to do anything without breaking something.

Unless I have something that is a specific warranty claim I'll be going elsewhere for my oil changes and rotations now.
 
Know this is an old thread, but seems on point to what happened to me today. One of the local Honda dealers has been good about not upselling too much in the past. They charge the same price for service A and B and always have coupons on those. I can get the A/B and tire rotation for $50 out the door without much hassle.

However, today I took my 2019 hybrid over for a B1 service. This was only my second service as ar is 2 years old with 14k miles. A seasoned service advisor who I worked with over the years shocked me with some 15k service BS for $240. The break down was an oil change, tire rotation, alignment and fuel system service. I told him I only wanted the required services under the maintenance minder to which he replies that these are all required by Honda. I almost fell out of my chair but politely declined those 'required' not required services. Now they list them as deferred services on my invoice like some scarlet letter.

If they continue to pull this BS, I will have to look elsewhere. Too bad as they are closest to my work.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Know this is an old thread, but seems on point to what happened to me today. One of the local Honda dealers has been good about not upselling too much in the past. They charge the same price for service A and B and always have coupons on those. I can get the A/B and tire rotation for $50 out the door without much hassle.

However, today I took my 2019 hybrid over for a B1 service. This was only my second service as ar is 2 years old with 14k miles. A seasoned service advisor who I worked with over the years shocked me with some 15k service BS for $240. The break down was an oil change, tire rotation, alignment and fuel system service. I told him I only wanted the required services under the maintenance minder to which he replies that these are all required by Honda. I almost fell out of my chair but politely declined those 'required' not required services. Now they list them as deferred services on my invoice like some scarlet letter.

If they continue to pull this BS, I will have to look elsewhere. Too bad as they are closest to my work.
Yeah, unfortunately that's very common. Some service advisor will try to convince you that he knows better than the group of engineers who literally designed every single part of your car. He learned more about your car between his smoke breaks and breath mints than a guy who devoted his entire life to his creation. They're shameless people who know that they'll guilt/scare 8 out of 10 people into it. The worst thing is, they enjoy it and think of it like it's something to be proud of.
 
People think of the service advisor (also called a service writer) as a mechanic but basically, they are salesmen. They're even paid on commission. That means that the more work they convince you that your car needs, the more money that puts in their pockets. Another problem is almost no one reads their owner's manual, so they really don't know what's best for their car. See, the manual was written by the company that built your car. It is the most accurate description of how to care for it. But when people go to the dealership for routine maintenance, the service advisor pushes the "dealer recommended service" on them. Basically, this calls for oil changes and transmission flushes more frequently than the owner's manual. For instance, the dealer might recommend changing the transmission fluid every 12,000 miles, whereas the manual recommends changing it every 60,000 miles. If you followed the dealer's recommendation, that means you'd have four transmission fluid changes that were unnecessary. And transmission fluid changes aren't cheap — they can run $200, so you might be spending as much as $800 unnecessarily.

At the dealership, customers pull up in the driveway and are greeted by the service advisors. As the customers line up, service advisors develop a sixth sense of who needs what, and thus which customer to go to, to make the most money. They look for the people who have old-looking cars and who also look rich; they figure they can afford superfluous work. The way they handle customers is via a carefully controlled interaction. The company even produces videos detailing exactly what they're supposed to do and say and sell. There are phrases they use to sell services. For example, they can get people to go for early fluid changes by saying, "While you're here, let's get this work taken care of," because people hate the hassle of coming to the dealership and waiting around. They also play up the safety issue. If you want someone to agree to a brake job, just say, "There's less than 50 percent of your brake pads left." That sounds bad but actually it isn't time to get a brake job until that number is much closer to 15.

Service jobs are priced according to the "flat rate" book, which has the times it takes to perform each repair or service procedure. For instance, an oil change takes 0.3 hour according to this book. The mechanics, however, try to beat these times to make more money for doing less work. Unfortunately, that incentivizes speed and overselling, which is the built-in problem with most service departments. Let's say that someone comes into the dealership for a simple oil change. They immediately become a target for the service department to "upsell" them as much additional work as possible. First, the advisor will ask how many miles are on the car. If there is close to, for example, 20,000 miles, they will say, "Well, you're just about ready for your 20,000-mile service. Here's what we recommend." They then whip out a sheet with a laundry list of services that are offered for a package price. But if you look at what is actually done to the car, it is just inspections or fluid checks and fills. When you start getting more miles, the service writer will say, "We're going to do all services recommended for that mileage, but we'll also check for other problems." So, you agree to a "full inspection," which is one of the biggest scams. Later in the day the service writer will call and say, "Everything looks OK, but we recommend you have some other work done: transmission fluid, air-conditioning, differential fluid." By the way, most manufacturers don't recommend ever changing the diff fluid. So, you go in for an oil change and end up dropping $600.

Dealerships don't profit on extensive operations like replacing engine blocks, transmissions or other large components. These require expensive parts, and the mechanics take longer to finish them. So, while you pay a lot for these operations, the service department doesn't make much off them. With the smaller operations, on the other hand, you don't pay as much, but they're making a very high percentage of profit. In many cases, dealer-recommended service and the owner's manual have a vast discrepancy. Dealer's will almost double the service frequency from the manual. That's true of parts, too. The prices of most parts you buy through a dealership are doubled. Some service advisors recommend brake jobs that aren't necessary. Some also recommend turning the rotors on the brakes when it's not really called for. Turning the rotor involves putting the disc part of the brake (the rotor) on a lathe and cutting a thin layer of metal off to make the surface flat. Garages typically charge $50 to turn each rotor. However, it isn't always necessary to turn the rotors. Turning makes the rotors thinner, which could eventually lead to warping. Most brake pads come with a small metal strip buried under the brake pad called the "wear indicator." When the brake pad wears down to about 15 percent of its thickness, the metal contacts the rotor and causes the brakes to screech when you hit them. That's when it's time to change the brake pads.

Service departments take advantage of the fact that there's not as much mistrust of them as there is of car salesmen. They play the role of "I'm on your side," the friendly mechanic. Often, they have some mechanical experience but actually, their strong suit is that they have good public relations skills. Their job is to be the counselor to the customer, to tell them what they need and don't need. The service managers call meetings and tell the writers, "You made this much but you have to try to make more." They wanted them to boost profit so that they themselves would get a bonus.

ALWAYS read the owner's manual before you go see the dealer. Or go to an online chat and share the knowledge of other owners. Also, it helps to do a visual inspection of your car. You don't have to be mechanically minded — just look to see if the oil is dirty or not. But the most important thing, don't trust the dealer's recommended mileages; use the manufacturer's guidelines in the manual. This is probably the best way to deflect the service guys when they try to upsell you. Copy that page in the manual, hand it to the service advisor and say, "Here's what I want you to do."

One trick with service advisors is to go in and find the oldest one you see, because he's survived by being honest, ethical and by building up a base of loyal customers. Then say, "Oh yeah, I think I dealt with him last time I was here. I'll talk with him." The other thing to remember is that service advisors are wary of customers who look like they know what they're doing. So, take some time to learn a little about your car. You might find it interesting — and it will save you money the next time you go in for service.
Thank you Mr. Overlord, you explained what goes on at the dealership perfectly. Owners can also buy the manufacturer's service manuals for their cars to know exactly what service needs to be done & when. I have even seen a dealer service department pull out their own Labor Guide with their own times in it. Unfortunately too many service departments are taking advantage of people who don't know a lot about cars. If you don't want to be taken you have to educate yourself by book, internet, phone (contact other dealers, independent shops that you trust, Honda Corporate), or verifying whatever they tell you. If you give them a blank check they will certainly go for as much as they can get away with. How do you think they make money in the service department?!

Know this is an old thread, but seems on point to what happened to me today. One of the local Honda dealers has been good about not upselling too much in the past. They charge the same price for service A and B and always have coupons on those. I can get the A/B and tire rotation for $50 out the door without much hassle.

However, today I took my 2019 hybrid over for a B1 service. This was only my second service as ar is 2 years old with 14k miles. A seasoned service advisor who I worked with over the years shocked me with some 15k service BS for $240. The break down was an oil change, tire rotation, alignment and fuel system service. I told him I only wanted the required services under the maintenance minder to which he replies that these are all required by Honda. I almost fell out of my chair but politely declined those 'required' not required services. Now they list them as deferred services on my invoice like some scarlet letter.

If they continue to pull this BS, I will have to look elsewhere. Too bad as they are closest to my work.
Unfortunately the dealer's mantra is "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!"
 
This, I stopped going to my dealer even though I can go for 3 years for oil changes and washes and stuff. The service department were 100% scum.
They give you a free oil change hoping you pay them $125 to replace that $10 cabin filter. Or let them replace your air filter “ at cost” which seems to be $35 more then anyplace else 😎
 
They give you a free oil change hoping you pay them $125 to replace that $10 cabin filter. Or let them replace your air filter “ at cost” which seems to be $35 more then anyplace else 😎
Yeah and the filters are not as good as Wix for smells and allergies. Charge BMW premiums. It's not they are upselling me, they are downright lying to me. I have the review in the buying section of Ciocca Honda of Harrisburg. Can not speak poorly of them enough, it was like high school bullies run that place and torture puppies.
 
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