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The Type S is cool. I test drove a 2019 or 2020 TLX aspec in 2019. It was nice and I liked the power but I felt the car couldn’t justify the price tag. I thought that the Accords looked better and if I wanted power I would just go for a 2.0 accord.
 

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Acura cars have better suspensions and sportier attributes. That’s the reason to buy one. Plush ride with a large interior was not a good seller, which is why the RLX was discontinued here.
The RLX was a strange animal for sure. Acura never really was competitive in that segment- at least not since the Legend back in the early 1990s.
Yep, the RLX was a very comfortable car. It’s very roomy and damn quiet too. The build quality was also the best of any Acura’s I’ve ever sat in. Unfortunately, they never did well for a long time (since the RL days) for very obvious reasons: the lack of V8 and RWD.

With the latest gen, they compounded the issue with unnecessarily complicated PAW-S system, and their pricing should’ve been adjusted accordingly. Forget the V8 (too late for that) and the RWD, even if they had equip every RLX with SH-AWD and adjusted their prices accordingly, they would’ve sold a lot more. With the sport hybrid’s 377hp, 0-60 in 4.9s and combined 30 MPG, you’d think they had something special going for them, yet they still managed to fail in sales....

The interior space was taken away to lengthen the front and hood and give it a lower sportier rear wheel drive stance.
I drove Acura coupes since 1988 but my used Touring at half the $ is great. Spent a lot on this new platform but they won't sell many in an SUV market.
Yep. I hope it does well, but I have a feeling it might not. If that were the case, this might be the last gen TLX and the end of Acura sedans. The new Type-S is tested to be 4.7-4.9s 0-60 so far, just marginally better than the RLX Sport Hybrid. I hope it’s enough, but it might not be.
 

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Here I saw the saying that Acura decided to not give new TLX a big rear seat after they witnessed the failure of RLX with generous rear legroom.

I’d say I totally disagree with this saying. The RLX failure is purely caused by Acura’s slow upgrade pace. Any luxury model which is not re-designed for 8 years is deemed to fail. In year 2018, was there any buyer who would be interested in a old-style 2-screen infotainment?

No V8 is not an excuse. No RWD is not an excuse. At the same time, Lexus ES, Volvo S90 have been selling well, with FWD layout!

Volvo S60 is another demonstration that a vehicle’s success or failure is totally determined by its own competitiveness, not FWD nor lack of V8. The sales figure is only 7310 for year 2018 thanks to the 8-year old 2nd gen model; then it bumped up to 17526 sales for year 2019 after the brand new SPA-based model rolled out. I’m also attracted by this model, especially its T8 PHEV drivetrain which delivers 4.4s 0-60 and combined 30mpg even if you never plug it in.

Back to 2021 TLX: even if we put aside the rear seats debate, it still has a couple cons, which should have been avoided as a flagship model:

1. Mechanical instrument cluster with a small 7” LCD. Did you know its little brother 2022 Civic now has optional full LCD instrument cluster?

2. No option of any hybrid/PHEV powertrains. I’m surprised that Acura, with a ton of hybrid technology backup (both i-MMD and Sport hybrid AWD are very competitive and unique systems), did not give new TLX any hybrid options. Most competitors have (Lexus ES 300h, BMW 330e, Volvo S60 T8, MB C300 standard 48V mild hybrid etc). This could have saved TLX fuel economy numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
Ultimately our hope was to get Honda Accord level of room with Audi S4 level of performance and long-term Japanese maintenance costs and reliability. We have a mid-sized SUV, and hoped to get a family sport sedan within a certain price range. Unfortunately, the new Type S wouldn't work for us. And the Accord is looking even better to us now.

A lot of the German mid sizes cars now focus more on a plush ride (relatively speaking) rather than the taut precision of older versions, unless you buy the performance variants. But the price of those (M5, E63, S6, S7, RS7, etc.) is out of our range. This is were you can really see the value of the current 2.0 Accords from a price/performance ratio for family sedans.
 

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Here I saw the saying that Acura decided to not give new TLX a big rear seat after they witnessed the failure of RLX with generous rear legroom.

I’d say I totally disagree with this saying. The RLX failure is purely caused by Acura’s slow upgrade pace. Any luxury model which is not re-designed for 8 years is deemed to fail. In year 2018, was there any buyer who would be interested in a old-style 2-screen infotainment?

No V8 is not an excuse. No RWD is not an excuse. At the same time, Lexus ES, Volvo S90 have been selling well, with FWD layout!

Volvo S60 is another demonstration that a vehicle’s success or failure is totally determined by its own competitiveness, not FWD nor lack of V8. The sales figure is only 7310 for year 2018 thanks to the 8-year old 2nd gen model; then it bumped up to 17526 sales for year 2019 after the brand new SPA-based model rolled out. I’m also attracted by this model, especially its T8 PHEV drivetrain which delivers 4.4s 0-60 and combined 30mpg even if you never plug it in.

Back to 2021 TLX: even if we put aside the rear seats debate, it still has a couple cons, which should have been avoided as a flagship model:

1. Mechanical instrument cluster with a small 7” LCD. Did you know its little brother 2022 Civic now has optional full LCD instrument cluster?

2. No option of any hybrid/PHEV powertrains. I’m surprised that Acura, with a ton of hybrid technology backup (both i-MMD and Sport hybrid AWD are very competitive and unique systems), did not give new TLX any hybrid options. Most competitors have (Lexus ES 300h, BMW 330e, Volvo S60 T8, MB C300 standard 48V mild hybrid etc). This could have saved TLX fuel economy numbers.
Well, yeah, I’m not sure why a large back seat would be a minus either. But it is likely that they do not want people cross-shopping the two. Another possibility is there is a full size Acura sedan coming down the road. Who knows. All I know is the success of the TLX is important to the model’s survival, if not those of other sedans as well.

As far as ES and S60, those are not the flagship sedans that the RLX is, so I’m not sure why you even mentioned them. Have you ever driven an RLX? It’s much better than the Lexus ES. I have been in both. They are not really comparable other than perhaps quietness. ES rides like a nice Avalon and competes with the TLX, not the RLX. Now the S90 is the flagship from Volvo. I haven’t driven one, so I can’t comment on that car, but Volvo is really in a different situation. They have their own diehard fan base and don’t really need to concern with people crossshopping with their mainstream brand unlike Acura. Personally, as nice as Volvos are, I’d take Acura’s / Lexus any day over any Volvo.

As far as no V8’s and no RWD being excuses? No man, you have it wrong. Do you know who were the class leaders that the RLX aspired to compete with, but failed to do so? Yes, they were the S class, BMW 7 series, Lexus LS. You know what they all have in common, right? Bingo, it’s having a V8 and RWD. Hell, even Hyundai had them with the Genesis and they had a much better success selling the car vs the poor RLX. Yes, I agree with you in saying the competitiveness of the car itself decides its own success. Not having the V8 and RWD, in a segment where all class leaders did, compromised their competitiveness on top of everything else they did wrong, ok? Not updating their car over a long time is just the results of a vicious cycle. No sales = no profit. No profit = no/little update. That’s why it got axed.

Ultimately our hope was to get Honda Accord level of room with Audi S4 level of performance and long-term Japanese maintenance costs and reliability. We have a mid-sized SUV, and hoped to get to sedan family sport sedan within a certain price range. Unfortunately, the new Type S wouldn't work for us. And the Accord is looking even better to us now.

A lot of the German mid sizes cars now focus more on a plush ride (relatively speaking) rather than the taut precision of older versions, unless you buy the performance variants. But the price of those (M5, E63, S6, S7, RS7, etc.) is out of our range. This is were you can really see the value of the current 2.0 Accords from a price/performance ratio for family sedans.
I’d look for next gen. Accord 2.0 or the 3rd Gen TLX, if there’s a 3rd Gen, that is.
 

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Well, yeah, I’m not sure why a large back seat would be a minus either. But it is likely that they do not want people cross-shopping the two. Another possibility is there is a full size Acura sedan coming down the road. Who knows. All I know is the success of the TLX is important to the model’s survival, if not those of other sedans as well.

As far as ES and S60, those are not the flagship sedans that the RLX is, so I’m not sure why you even mentioned them. Have you ever driven an RLX? It’s much better than the Lexus ES. I have been in both. They are not really comparable other than perhaps quietness. ES rides like a nice Avalon and competes with the TLX, not the RLX. Now the S90 is the flagship from Volvo. I haven’t driven one, so I can’t comment on that car, but Volvo is really in a different situation. They have their own diehard fan base and don’t really need to concern with people crossshopping with their mainstream brand unlike Acura. Personally, as nice as Volvos are, I’d take Acura’s / Lexus any day over any Volvo.

As far as no V8’s and no RWD being excuses? No man, you have it wrong. Do you know who were the class leaders that the RLX aspired to compete with, but failed to do so? Yes, they were the S class, BMW 7 series, Lexus LS. You know what they all have in common, right? Bingo, it’s having a V8 and RWD. Hell, even Hyundai had them with the Genesis and they had a much better success selling the car vs the poor RLX. Yes, I agree with you in saying the competitiveness of the car itself decides its own success. Not having the V8 and RWD, in a segment where all class leaders did, compromised their competitiveness on top of everything else they did wrong, ok? Not updating their car over a long time is just the results of a vicious cycle. No sales = no profit. No profit = no/little update. That’s why it got axed.
Thanks for your opinion.
While I agree that RWD/V8 is a must for competing in the top-end luxury segment, I don’t think Acura was ever targeting at this segment with RLX.
The predecessor of RLX, Acura Legend, was a big success back in 1980-1990s. It achieved 70k sales figure in 1989. This means Acura was once successful with the Legend despite it being no V8 and FWD.
I honestly don’t think Acura ever targeted at S/7/A8/LS etc with their RLX. Flagship is a different story for different brands. They should have realized at the beginning that RLX, or its predecessor Legend, will never beat those RWD V8 models. This has also been shown by the MSRP: a RLX is generally considered as E/5/A6/GS competitor.

Volvo S60 is just a little brother of S90. Being shorter outside and inside, S60 shares everything S90 has from all luxury feature contents to 3 powertrain options. That’s why it achieves a reborn after re-design.

Yeah I should use S90 as an example against Acura RLX: its predecessor S80 only did 1887 sales figure in year 2015, then 646 in year 2016; but with the brand new S90, sales figure bumped up to 8641 in year 2017. This reborn happened during the gradual death of RLX, demonstrating that the poor competitiveness of RLX itself is to be blamed for its failure.

I don’t think these FWD luxury models are ever targeting at those RWD V8 options. The key to ES/S60/S90 sales figures is exactly that they are targeting at a different drama, not BMW 5-like.

I doubt whether Korean Genesis will make it with their RWD options, but I do appreciate their determination for doing so. There’s a saying that learning how others succeed can bring success, but copying what others do will lead to failure. This is my concern for Genesis as well as Lexus IS/GS/LS, and my appreciation for ES and new Volvo models.
 

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Thanks for your opinion.
While I agree that RWD/V8 is a must for competing in the top-end luxury segment, I don’t think Acura was ever targeting at this segment with RLX.
The predecessor of RLX, Acura Legend, was a big success back in 1980-1990s. It achieved 70k sales figure in 1989. This means Acura was once successful with the Legend despite it being no V8 and FWD.
I honestly don’t think Acura ever targeted at S/7/A8/LS etc with their RLX. Flagship is a different story for different brands. They should have realized at the beginning that RLX, or its predecessor Legend, will never beat those RWD V8 models. This has also been shown by the MSRP: a RLX is generally considered as E/5/A6/GS competitor.

Volvo S60 is just a little brother of S90. Being shorter outside and inside, S60 shares everything S90 has from all luxury feature contents to 3 powertrain options. That’s why it achieves a reborn after re-design.

Yeah I should use S90 as an example against Acura RLX: its predecessor S80 only did 1887 sales figure in year 2015, then 646 in year 2016; but with the brand new S90, sales figure bumped up to 8641 in year 2017. This reborn happened during the gradual death of RLX, demonstrating that the poor competitiveness of RLX itself is to be blamed for its failure.

I don’t think these FWD luxury models are ever targeting at those RWD V8 options. The key to ES/S60/S90 sales figures is exactly that they are targeting at a different drama, not BMW 5-like.

I doubt whether Korean Genesis will make it with their RWD options, but I do appreciate their determination for doing so. There’s a saying that learning how others succeed can bring success, but copying what others do will lead to failure. This is my concern for Genesis as well as Lexus IS/GS/LS, and my appreciation for ES and new Volvo models.
Fair enough. Even if their competitors were the E class, 5 Series, GS, that you mentioned, they all had optional V8 and RWD.

Like you said, we can each have our own opinions, but I know what I said isn’t just my opinion. It’s no secret that the TL competed with the ES, the TSX with the IS and the RL/RLX competed with the flagship of other brands or depending on who you asked, the ones you mentioned. Either way, the lack of V8 and RWD was, at least in part, a contributing factor of its decline. This is the sentiment among many Acura / ex-Acura owners. I’ve been to the Acura board long enough to know this.

I’m not sure if Honda won’t beat those models either. Honda is one of the best engine makers, if not the best, in the world. They’ll at least be more competitive if they were available. Whatever, it’s a moot point now. The model is cancelled now. I just hope whatever they bring next (if they bring one next), will be much more competitive than the model they had before.
 

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I didn't make up this idea, the industry did and all the germans have four door coupes. Unless you are claiming you are a defining authority in the auto industry standards;

The past principle of the French verb “couper” means “to cut,” so it makes a lot of sense to apply this term to the modern meaning of the word, as a vehicle that is made shorter than standard.

During the 1940s and the 1950s, coupes were easily recognized by their shorter roof area. But by the end of the 1970s, two official standards emerged. Governing bodies began to define the coupe differently. According to the International Standard ISO 3833, the coupe is categorized as a vehicle with two doors.
On the other hand, the United States Society of Automotive Engineers J1100 publication does not specify the number of doors at all.

 

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Let's not forget that Porsche has a "Cayenne coupe", which is literally a 4 door SUV lol.

I'm also a little triggered by the 4 door coupe thing, but when you compare the regular Cayenne and the Cayenne coupe, you can definitely see a difference in the roofline slant angles.
 

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I didn't make up this idea, the industry did and all the germans have four door coupes. Unless you are claiming you are a defining authority in the auto industry standards;

The past principle of the French verb “couper” means “to cut,” so it makes a lot of sense to apply this term to the modern meaning of the word, as a vehicle that is made shorter than standard.

During the 1940s and the 1950s, coupes were easily recognized by their shorter roof area. But by the end of the 1970s, two official standards emerged. Governing bodies began to define the coupe differently. According to the International Standard ISO 3833, the coupe is categorized as a vehicle with two doors.
On the other hand, the United States Society of Automotive Engineers J1100 publication does not specify the number of doors at all.

I am aware of the marketing trend. I'm just not impressed by it. Bmw calls it "gran coupe". If you say coupe but have to qualify it, it gets lame. Like a joke you explain.
 

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After driving Acura 2-door! coupes since 1988 I finally gave up, selling my 03 CL-Type S this year. Great car, as well as the Legend coupes before that. Last decent Acura sedans were the 3rd Gen TL and the 2nd Gen RL imo. Now they are an SUV maker with a sports car nobody wants to afford.

I'm liking my HAH, my first sedan. It's better than any 4-door Acura has made in a while.
 

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My previous car was a 2010 Acura TSX. The backseat leg room was terrible in that car as well. I am 5' 9", and with the seat adjusted for me, I could not get into the back seat "behind myself" by simply putting my foot into the back seat floor area without putting them in sideways. I would be worried about passengers not being able to get out of the car quickly in an emergency. Pre-Covid, my TSX was not a popular car for going out to lunch with office coworkers. My Accord is (...was, thank you Covid...) much more popular.
 

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My previous car was a 2010 Acura TSX. The backseat leg room was terrible in that car as well. I am 5' 9", and with the seat adjusted for me, I could not get into the back seat "behind myself" by simply putting my foot into the back seat floor area without putting them in sideways. I would be worried about passengers not being able to get out of the car quickly in an emergency. Pre-Covid, my TSX was not a popular car for going out to lunch with office coworkers. My Accord is (...was, thank you Covid...) much more popular.
Haha the new TLX’s backseat isn’t THAT small. Just small compared to the Accord.

With that said, when I was looking for the TSX for my mom several years ago, I brought along a friend with me (who was also 5-8/5-9). He was sitting in the back (with a salesman riding alongside me). We both thought the back seat was a joke and I could not believe it being even smaller than my sister’s Civic. Thank god she didn’t need the backseat then and the leather was nice lol.
 

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Great discussion! I’m going to look at an ASpec TLX tomorrow. I’ve been offered via Carvana basically what I paid for my Sport 2.0T last year. 9000 miles. It’s crazy what’s going on with the chip shortages and other materials. I just LOVE the style of the TLX. Don’t have kids. Love the new tech, that ELS system (!!), and the completely new chassis design. I personally wouldn’t mind a little heavier car as well. We‘ll see what Acura will give me for the Accord which is mint condition.
 

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Well guys I’m doing it. Put a deposit down for an ASpec SH-AWD. Black/Red combo hopefully or if not then Black/Black will work. They have to locate a Black/Red one. Acura (much to their suprise) pretty much matched my Carvana offer. Nearly 27K with 9500 mi. There is a $2500 Honda/Acura loyalty rebate and they knocked a little off of MSRP. A couple of dealers wouldn’t budge. It feels much more buttoned down/sturdy than the Honda (I didn’t have any rattles/wind noise or anything like that) and the interior is awesome. Really dope styling and the ELS system is incredible. The ergonomics of the cabin feels really cool with the low dash...cockpit feel. Materials are very nice. Cabin feels cozy and enough room for me and the cello. That’s it, ha. My payments will be lower too. This was a no brainer and rare opportunity I think. Cheers.
 

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Well guys I’m doing it. Put a deposit down for an ASpec SH-AWD. Black/Red combo hopefully or if not then Black/Black will work. They have to locate a Black/Red one. Acura (much to their suprise) pretty much matched my Carvana offer. Nearly 27K with 9500 mi. There is a $2500 Honda/Acura loyalty rebate and they knocked a little off of MSRP. A couple of dealers wouldn’t budge. It feels much more buttoned down/sturdy than the Honda (I didn’t have any rattles/wind noise or anything like that) and the interior is awesome. Really dope styling and the ELS system is incredible. The ergonomics of the cabin feels really cool with the low dash...cockpit feel. Materials are very nice. Cabin feels cozy and enough room for me and the cello. That’s it, ha. My payments will be lower too. This was a no brainer and rare opportunity I think. Cheers.
If you only need to carry yourself and the cello, then the backseat doesn’t matter at all. Congrats! 👏

How are your payments lower though? Did you put a lot for down payment?
 

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If you only need to carry yourself and the cello, then the backseat doesn’t matter at all. Congrats! 👏

How are your payments lower though? Did you put a lot for down payment?
Thanks! I paid off the Accord a few weeks ago so had the title free and clear. Dumped it all into the TLX so when all said and done I was only financing a little over 18K. The deposit of 1K was essentially my downpayment.
 

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Thanks! I paid off the Accord a few weeks ago so had the title free and clear. Dumped it all into the TLX so when all said and done I was only financing a little over 18K. The deposit of 1K was essentially my downpayment.
I see. That makes sense! Well done for paying off the car quickly! I’m sure the TLX will be an amazing car! Congrats! 👍
 

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Haha the new TLX’s backseat isn’t THAT small. Just small compared to the Accord.

With that said, when I was looking for the TSX for my mom several years ago, I brought along a friend with me (who was also 5-8/5-9). He was sitting in the back (with a salesman riding alongside me). We both thought the back seat was a joke and I could not believe it being even smaller than my sister’s Civic. Thank god she didn’t need the backseat then and the leather was nice lol.
Hey, I’m 6’3” and mostly legs. I have sat in the 21 TLX. There’s plenty of room for me in front and I can sit in the back seat (behind myself). I would not want to be there for a cross country road trip but it would be acceptable. It’s quite similar to (actually a little roomier than) a Mercedes CLS.
 
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