[buster]

Long story short, a quick lube place (rarely ever go to them) put in Amsoil XL 5w30 for the MTF fluid. I've been using Amsoil MTF for the last 80k miles.

I told the guy afterward that it was not the right fluid and that the manual says to use only Honda MTF or equivalent. He ended up putting the Honda MTF back in. HUGE difference. Shifting is extremely smooth. The Honda MTF is a good fluid.

 

[RTexasF]

Hey Buster,

A switch to Red Line is even more drastic a difference, in a very positive manner.

 

[Mechanic]

For 10 years or so, all Honda owners' manuals have stated: "If Honda MTF is not available, you may use any SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification seal that says 'For Gasoline Engines' as a temporary replacement. However, (the manual goes on to say) motor oil does not contain the proper additives, and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as soon as convenient." (Emphasis added.) (Quoted from p.325 of the current Accord manual.)

Note further, the Accord manual does not say regular motor oil will eventually cause stiffer shifting, only that it might. In this regard, for decades before Honda started selling its own MTF product, Honda transmissions were filled with 10W-30 weight motor oil. Indeed, even now Honda MTF is, in fact, conventional "motor" oil with various additives. (You can find an analysis of Honda MTF on bobistheoilguy.com.)

Current owners' manuals go on to state: "The transmission should be drained and refilled with new fluid according to the maintenance minder." This, too, is significant because Honda doesn't require replacement of the substitute oil "as soon as possible," nor is there any admonition about additional wear, etc.

Consequently, several years ago, after reading the above quoted language for years, I decided to experiment using Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil in a Civic Si (EP3) transmission to see if shifting would improve using a synthetic oil (particularly in cold weather), and whether synthetic motor oil would, in fact, deteriorate over time or miles driven. I considered using Amsoil synthetic Manual Sychronmesh Transmission Fluid, but that wouldn't have told me what I wanted to know WRT the use of synthetic motor oil, and Amsoil's product, while excellent, costs about three times as much per quart as Mobil 1.

Cutting to the chase, Mobil 1 (5W-30 -- the same viscosity as Amsoil's product) works great. I still own the Si, it's gone over 50k miles with M1 as its sole MTF, and it shifts like butter, hot or cold.

Finally, for the sake of clarity, let me add I am not "recommending" M1 as a substitute for Honda's MTF. I am simply pointing out there are alternatives, and in my experience, M1 works well.

 

[buster]

Good to know, thanks Mechanic. That is exactly what my manual says. Changing it out certainly made a difference.

 

[kimsean]

Hi! How often did you change your trans oil with m1 5w-30? I have 10 accord sedan with 5 speed mt(5000mile) i an trying to get moblie or redline. Thanks

 

[Mechanic]

Hi! How often did you change your trans oil with m1 5w-30? I have 10 accord sedan with 5 speed mt(5000mile) i an trying to get moblie or redline. Thanks

If you are asking how often I changed the manual transmission fluid in my '02 Si, I changed it once, as discussed above. In this regard, in the days before Honda began using the Maintenance Minder system, Honda owners' manuals had a table that indicated manual transmission fluid should be changed at 105,000 miles. (You read that right: 105,000 miles.) It was half that for "severe service" which was described as frequent towing or consistent extremely high temperatures.

That's one of the reasons that I love manual-transmission Hondas: Unless you beat on them, they require virtually no service and last forever.

As it happens, I also have a '09 EX Accord sedan with a manual transmission. (Took me forever to find it, but that's another story.) Assuming I get extraordinarily ambitious, I may change the original MTF at 30k miles just for the heck of it. If I do, I will choose a synthetic (Mobil 1 or Amsoil MTF, which is also a 5W-30 weight oil) simply because they feel better (and that's the only way to describe it, by feel) when the ambient temperatures are near freezing or below.

 

[Toshbar]

Awesome info, Mechanic.

I plan to change my MTF at my next engine oil change and will be using Mobil1 5w-30 per your recommendation.

Think Royal Purple is worth it?

 

[Mechanic]

. . . Think Royal Purple is worth it?

I've never tried it, so I don't know.

 

[shaunmac9128]

How often is it supposed to be changed. I just got my accord, 05 with 46k, and I was thinking about swapping it out for Redline or Amsoil.

 

[thekash]

you think chaging out the MTF at 20k miles is too early? i don't really have any major problems with slips and stuff, just seems like sometimes the shift into gears is not as smooth as it should be... and especially at higher RPMs i've had gear grind even with the cluth pushed in full... wondering if this would help with that...

 

[RTexasF]

you think chaging out the MTF at 20k miles is too early? i don't really have any major problems with slips and stuff, just seems like sometimes the shift into gears is not as smooth as it should be... and especially at higher RPMs i've had gear grind even with the cluth pushed in full... wondering if this would help with that...

I don't think it's too early. I had mine changed to Redline synthetic the same week I bought the car (2004) and again around 25K. Even the first week with a brand new car the difference in shifting going from Honda MTF to Redline was quite amazing. You'll notice it especially in cold weather.

 

[thekash]

I don't think it's too early. I had mine changed to Redline synthetic the same week I bought the car (2004) and again around 25K. Even the first week with a brand new car the difference in shifting going from Honda MTF to Redline was quite amazing. You'll notice it especially in cold weather.

Thanks RTexasF! i ended up just ordering the Syncromesh GM Friction Modified stuff... someone on the forum listed it $9/Q so hopefully it makes a difference and i'm good again for another 30k miles!

 

[ezshift5]

..............ended up just ordering the Syncromesh GM Friction Modified stuff... someone on the forum listed it $9/Q so hopefully it makes a difference and i'm good again for another 30k miles!

There's a good chance for increased shifting smoothness immediately. My switch to GMSFM almost 30,000 miles ago was prompted by the infamous reluctance in the 3rd gear shift. Almost overnite the notchiness permanantly vanished. Please keep us in the loop on how this magic goo work for you!

best, ez.......

 

[Toshbar]

I drained mine at 105k and put in some Pennzoil Synchromesh, which I put in my Jeep. It's been a week and so far so good. Seems to go into 1st gear easier. It's just starting to get cold around here, so we'll see. I have no doubts about it performing great. The old fluid was not that much darker than the stuff I put in there.

Instead of filling it through the fill hole, I took out the speed sensor on the front of the transmission and filled it through there with some clear tubing. I only bought two quarts and put them in. None came out the fill hole and I was worried I'd need part of a 3rd bottle. I checked the level and it was right under the threads of the fill hole. :thmsup:

 

[Chocopie]

There's a good chance for increased shifting smoothness immediately. My switch to GMSFM almost 30,000 miles ago was prompted by the infamous reluctance in the 3rd gear shift. Almost overnite the notchiness permanantly vanished. Please keep us in the loop on how this magic goo work for you!

best, ez.......

I didn't believe it, but I switched to GM Syncromesh... and that 3rd gear thing seriously just went away.

 

[ezshift5]

I didn't believe it, but I switched to GM Syncromesh... and that 3rd gear thing seriously just went away.

Always nice to hear GM SynchroMesh positives. The stuff works. I use the Friction Modified fluid and the 3rd gear reluctant shift never happened again.

ez....

 

[stanmalu]

Can you purchase redline from the store?

 

[nehonda]

You can get Redline products from performance companies like Summit Racing, Jegs, Speedway motors etc. Havent seen it sold in local stores.

I dont use it in my Hondas, but it works well in some of my other toys.