[Rattmann]

VTC Recall or TSB

The result of VTC actuator complete mechanical failure is catastrophic.

The valves from the intake of either cylinder 2&3 or 1&4 WILL result in a tensioner to fail and a fantastic collision of the valve with the piston.

This is exactly what happened to my K24Z3 motor.
Honda took the engine for further investigation and research.

They gave me a New Engine as a Fix for my 2008ExLnav accord
All this at 50K miles.

 

[rox08cpe]

I hope that you do a recall. I wanna take my car in for the tsb but I'm afraid they are going to charge me if I take it.

 

[johnnydinh701]

i tried to shove the tsb in their face about this but they said its not an issue unless my car really does fail.... ??

 

[rox08cpe]

I hope that you do a recall. I wanna take my car in for the tsb but I'm afraid they are going to charge me if I take it.

I forgot to mention my car has 70k miles so It passed the powertrain warranty. ****s

 

[Edaccord08]

VTC Recall or TSB

The result of VTC actuator complete mechanical failure is catastrophic.

The valves from the intake of either cylinder 2&3 or 1&4 WILL result in a tensioner to fail and a fantastic collision of the valve with the piston.

This is exactly what happened to my K24Z3 motor.
Honda took the engine for further investigation and research.

They gave me a New Engine as a Fix for my 2008ExLnav accord
All this at 50K miles.

Sorry, you had problems but I doubt very much there will be a recall . How many vehicles did this affect ? . It would have to be massive amount for recall or a safety issue which its not .

To bad you don't have pics of the parts, I be interested to see what happened .
Here is my opinion of what happened .
1) If nothing else goes wrong the VTC only allows 50 deg variance in the intake cam . As long as nothing happens to tension the valves can't hit the pistons no matter of cam is 0 -50deg (this is a normal amount during driving ) .
I think what happened to yours is you had tensioner failure maybe both VTC and tensioner . the only way I can see VTC causing a piston to valve issue is if the VTC housing broke apart leading it to more than 50deg movement .

Glad you got your car back an fixed .

 

[GoLowDrew]

i tried to shove the tsb in their face about this but they said its not an issue unless my car really does fail.... ??

Unfortunately, that's how TSB works. When you think maybe Honda can gain a lot (or avoid loosing) goodwill by checking and redo things if necessary to start to give owners the trouble-free experience they expect in a Honda product.

TSB is there to show them how to fix a common problem in hope of saving some diagnostic time. It's not suppose to be a prevention kind of thing (too bad).

 

[Rattmann]

Sorry, you had problems but I doubt very much there will be a recall . How many vehicles did this affect ? . It would have to be massive amount for recall or a safety issue which its not .

To bad you don't have pics of the parts, I be interested to see what happened .
Here is my opinion of what happened .
1) If nothing else goes wrong the VTC only allows 50 deg variance in the intake cam . As long as nothing happens to tension the valves can't hit the pistons no matter of cam is 0 -50deg (this is a normal amount during driving ) .
I think what happened to yours is you had tensioner failure maybe both VTC and tensioner . the only way I can see VTC causing a piston to valve issue is if the VTC housing broke apart leading it to more than 50deg movement .

Glad you got your car back an fixed .

As you said, "I think what happened to yours is you had tensioner failure maybe both VTC and tensioner . the only way I can see VTC causing a piston to valve issue is if the VTC housing broke apart leading it to more than 50deg movement", This is the exact case.
Too bad Honda will not show me the parts or the exact reason but only allude to the above.

What I am saying is to watch out when the warranty runs out!

 

[shadow85]

Honda needs another sueing like the Rear Brake Settlement.

 

[Edaccord08]

You have to remember the VTC is not something the tech can open hood and check it easily , the procedure is to take apart valve train and with compressed air applied to various ports see that VTC is in right position . If your not having any noise I can see why there not going to do anything, even when is only few sec noise it is still going to be hard % wise to prove .

 

[Aviography]

i tried to shove the tsb in their face about this but they said its not an issue unless my car really does fail.... ??

Of course you are not going to get any kind of receptive response when you "shove the tesb in their face".............

TSB shows how to fix a problem when it breaks, recall is a totally different scenario.

 

[BSTE]

VTC Recall or TSB

The result of VTC actuator complete mechanical failure is catastrophic.

The valves from the intake of either cylinder 2&3 or 1&4 WILL result in a tensioner to fail and a fantastic collision of the valve with the piston.

This is exactly what happened to my K24Z3 motor.
Honda took the engine for further investigation and research.

They gave me a New Engine as a Fix for my 2008ExLnav accord
All this at 50K miles.

Having the same VTC issue on my 08 Accord "Cold Starts", it started once a month to once in a while at about 58,000 miles and now at 69,000 it drives me nuts at almost every cold start.

 

[CitizenR]

I think Honda should do a recall. I'm on my third actuator and still have issues on cold starts. Drives. Me. Nuts.

It seems to me Honda is risking losing a lot of good will with the potential for catastrophic engine failure. I'm sure their decision would be driven by economics - how much does it cost to recall vs. how much does it cost to deal with individual issues as they arise.

 

[danny_379]

What does TSB stand for?

 

[mi08coupe]

What does TSB stand for?

Technical Service Bulletin

 

[Mechanic]

I think Honda should do a recall. I'm on my third actuator and still have issues on cold starts. Drives. Me. Nuts. . . .

If you're on your third VTC, the problem isn't the VTC, it's the tech doing the work.

Also, jfi, the term "recall" is a term of art. A "recall" is an obligation imposed on the manufacturer of the vehicle by the NHTSA to notify the vehicle owner of a safety-related defect. The replacement of a VTC isn't that, although I understand your frustration dealing with the circumstances you described. FWIW, there weren't that many VTC failures, particularly after mid-'09. More importantly, if the work is done correctly, it's a one-time fix.

Having the same VTC issue on my 08 Accord "Cold Starts", it started once a month to once in a while at about 58,000 miles and now at 69,000 it drives me nuts at almost every cold start. (Emphasis added.)

If you're experiencing this as described, it will be easy to diagnose and repair if you take your car in for service.

 

[mikeyd914]

first of all this affected a crapload of vehicles, mainly 2008-2010 i beleive.

i had mine replaced last summer. and just last week im hearing the grinding noise again on cold starts. do i have to keep replacing this shit every year??!?!?!? i believe this is covered under powertrain warranty? im HOPING!! cuz im out of regular warranty otherwise im gonna have to fork out 800 bucks which i dont have right now.

this is really unbelievable

 

[Mechanic]

first of all this affected a crapload of vehicles, mainly 2008-2010 i beleive.

i had mine replaced last summer. and just last week im hearing the grinding noise again on cold starts. do i have to keep replacing this shit every year??!?!?!? i believe this is covered under powertrain warranty? im HOPING!! cuz im out of regular warranty otherwise im gonna have to fork out 800 bucks which i dont have right now.

this is really unbelievable

"First of all," the problem didn't "affect a crapload of vehicles." It didn't affect even one percent of the '08 and '09 Accord owners on this board. If it's any consolation, the repair has always been a warranty item as described in TSB 09-010 (Sept. '09). You can find a copy this website.

As for whether you will have to "keep replacing this shit every year [??!?!? etc.]," I can't say. You may in fact be one of those people who are uniquely unfortunate, and thus will suffer greatly throughout your life.

 

[CitizenR]

If you're on your third VTC, the problem isn't the VTC, it's the tech doing the work.

Also, jfi, the term "recall" is a term of art. A "recall" is an obligation imposed on the manufacturer of the vehicle by the NHTSA to notify the vehicle owner of a safety-related defect. The replacement of a VTC isn't that, although I understand your frustration dealing with the circumstances you described. FWIW, there weren't that many VTC failures, particularly after mid-'09. More importantly, if the work is done correctly, it's a one-time fix.

My car has been to two different dealerships, thus different techs. I realize that my issue may not be an actuator, but the noise has always been the same. The first dealership that replaced the actuator told me it was defective. When it reappeared, I took it to a different dealership (for a couple of reasons, not least of which was the fact it apparently wasn't repaired).

 

[Mechanic]

My car has been to two different dealerships, thus different techs. I realize that my issue may not be an actuator, but the noise has always been the same. The first dealership that replaced the actuator told me it was defective. When it reappeared, I took it to a different dealership (for a couple of reasons, not least of which was the fact it apparently wasn't repaired).

I think you're making my point: it wasn't repaired correctly the first time.

That said, FWIW, when the VTC problem first surfaced and was identified as a problem occurring to some percentage of '08s, the VTCs that were removed were often replaced with VTCs manufactured by the same supplier. Initially, that made sense. When the problem continued, or recurred in some percentage of those cases, then, and only then, was it obvious that the problem was an issue with the VTCs supplied by that company.

But no one does this deliberately. It was a defect in manufacturing. It's not as if the supplier was trying to cheat Honda or the end-customer. All manufacturers -- every automobile manufacturer on the planet -- has these sorts of problems. You fix them and you move on. But the sort of distemper often expressed here -- i.e., :Honda's scum"; "I'll never buy another Honda"; "my dealer's a crook," etc. -- accomplishes nothing, really.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that mechanical things break. In the grand scheme of things, fewer things break on Hondas and Toyotas. It's no more complex than that.

 

[CitizenR]

I think you're making my point: it wasn't repaired correctly the first time.

That said, FWIW, when the VTC problem first surfaced and was identified as a problem occurring to some percentage of '08s, the VTCs that were removed were often replaced with VTCs manufactured by the same supplier. Initially, that made sense. When the problem continued, or recurred in some percentage of those cases, then, and only then, was it obvious that the problem was an issue with the VTCs supplied by that company.

But no one does this deliberately. It was a defect in manufacturing. It's not as if the supplier was trying to cheat Honda or the end-customer. All manufacturers -- every automobile manufacturer on the planet -- has these sorts of problems. You fix them and you move on. But the sort of distemper often expressed here -- i.e., :Honda's scum"; "I'll never buy another Honda"; "my dealer's a crook," etc. -- accomplishes nothing, really.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that mechanical things break. In the grand scheme of things, fewer things break on Hondas and Toyotas. It's no more complex than that.

What, then, are the odds that I've gotten 3 bad actuators? I agree that it's not deliberate, but if it is, as you say, a defect in manufacturing what is the likelihood that the original actuator and the two replacements have all been defective? Could it perhaps be a design flaw? I don't think Honda is scum, I've owned four Hondas, but I can't say that I'm completely pleased with this one. I also agree that mechanical things break, but the reason people buy Hondas and Toyotas is that they have built a reputation that their things break less often. That's the reason I came back to Honda from GM. I think people get frustrated when the same issue surfaces multiple times (like the guy who wanted to know if he was going to have to replace his actuator every year, I feel the same way) and is not resolved. The bottom line is Honda is aware of the problem and it doesn't appear they've figured out a way to remedy it. By the way, mine is an '09.