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According to the owners manual, the 10th Gen Accord only requires 87 octane or higher. I love this but it also surprised me especially being a turbo car. Are you aware of any benefit to running 91 or 93 octane in these cars? Will the ECU automatically adjust any parameters to increase performance?

I have the Accord 2.0T and I'm curious if you guys are running 87 or 91-93 in your tanks.

For instance, straight from my Nissan Frontier 4.0L owners manual:
NISSAN recommends the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of at least 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number. If unleaded premium gasoline is not available, you may use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI number, but you may notice a decrease in performance.
Any thoughts?

MODERATOR EDIT:
"Premium Fuel" is generally thought of as referring to octane rating or even "Top Tier" fuel. Gasoline with "up to 10%" ethanol mixed in is the usual here in the USA, but you can get higher ethanol concentrations (up to 15% ethanol) at the gas station and even some fuels that are 85% ethanol. If you are in Brazil, 100% ethanol is everywhere.

Some of these fuels have the same octane ratings. So some 100% gasoline fuels have an octane rating of 91, so do some "E-10" (90% gasoline + 10% ethanol) and "E-15" (85% gasoline = 15% ethanol). So "octane rating" or the "Premium label" alone are not enough to distinguish what you should put in your fuel tank.

It is VERY important to understand that when tuners (and their minions) speak of more power- they are talking about what the tuning product can do for power output, not what your engine and fuel system were originally designed for. Some posters here are mentioning "premium fuel", "octane rating" and "ethanol" and are NOT mentioning that you can't simply pour in higher concentrations of ethanol unless your Accord has been modified/adapted to accept higher concentrations of ethanol.

Yes, the TUNE product you purchased can handle it, but your car's fuel system as designed and built by the manufacturer may only be able to handle a certain concentration of ethanol before you have problems. Don't "wing it"- properly modify your car's fuel system IF you want to take advantage of the higher power output a tune can give you should you increase your ethanol content.

I would ask everyone in the performance section here to remember that you may be saying/posting it for the 1,000th time, but newbies might be reading it for the first time. Explain these things, please.

This is what sets DriveAccord apart from lesser forums, and the chimps in the wild.
 

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According to the owners manual, the 10th Gen Accord only requires 87 octane or higher. I love this but it also surprised me especially being a turbo car. Are you aware of any benefit to running 91 or 93 octane in these cars? Will the ECU automatically adjust any parameters to increase performance?

I have the Accord 2.0T and I'm curious if you guys are running 87 or 91-93 in your tanks.

For instance, straight from my Nissan Frontier 4.0L owners manual:
NISSAN recommends the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of at least 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number. If unleaded premium gasoline is not available, you may use unleaded regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 AKI number, but you may notice a decrease in performance.
Any thoughts?
both KTuner and Hondata have posted dyno's showing gains from better fuel

Not a ton, but you do make more power
 

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Save your money and run 87 octane fuel as the owner's manual recommends. All modern cars have a knock detector and will adjust the timing to eliminate preignition in cars that require 91 octane while running 87 octane without damage. Running 91-93 octane fuel is just pouring money out the tailpipe and just enriches the oil companies profits. You will see no difference in performance.

both KTuner and Hondata have posted dyno's showing gains from better fuel

Not a ton, but you do make more power
In the real world the word is negligible or infinitesimal.:smile In the end it's your money to throw away as you see fit. :frown
 

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Save your money and run 87 octane fuel as the owner's manual recommends. All modern cars have a knock detector and will adjust the timing to eliminate preignition in cars that require 91 octane while running 87 octane without damage. Running 91-93 octane fuel is just pouring money out the tailpipe and just enriches the oil companies profits. You will see no difference in performance.
whether you will notice it or not is debatable...but you WILL make more power...that's been proven on the dyno

In the real world the word is negligible or infinitesimal./forums/images/DriveAccord_vbtoucan/smilies/tango_face_smile.png In the end it's your money to throw away as you see fit. /forums/images/DriveAccord_vbtoucan/smilies/tango_face_sad.png
 

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both KTuner and Hondata have posted dyno's showing gains from better fuel

Not a ton, but you do make more power
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

I'll be running 93 based on those comparison dynos. From 2700 to 4200 there is a good +15tq or more. However, I do like the option of 87 if gas goes above $4.00 again. My previous car was premium only so I didn't have a choice.
 

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I run 93 in my 2.0 mt. For .20 a gallon I figure I may as well. I bought an 18’ 2.0 when I had a beautiful 13’ sport already. I waste money no matter what, haha. I also looked at the hondata gains. We have brand new cars, why not feed them the good stuff?!?
 

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There are a lot of good resources in this forum, including a member study of the effect of various octane fuels on the vehicle's knock control. The ECU adjusts very quickly - within a few seconds when the car is under load.

What is impressive about the Honda turbo direct injection engine is that they can run on 87 octane. The direct injection acts as an additional intercooler of the charge, allowing more ignition timing and as a result more performance.

We saw a 9 hp peak gain with 91 octane. Here is the thread with the 91 octane test results.
 

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So I have Hondata's stage 2 and I have been running 93-94 octane on all my tanks. For the hell of it I have ran 87 octane for 2 tanks now, just for Hondata's knock control study (will be posing up soon) and to see if I did feel a difference. I can assure you I can. It is not a world of a difference but it does feel a bit more sluggish. I am almost done this tank so I will be switching back 100%. I would advise you to put the better gas too.
 

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So I have Hondata's stage 2 and I have been running 93-94 octane on all my tanks. For the hell of it I have ran 87 octane for 2 tanks now, just for Hondata's knock control study (will be posing up soon) and to see if I did felt a difference. I can assure you I can. It is not a world of a difference but it does feel a bit more sluggish. I am almost done this tank so I will be switching back 100%. I would advise you to put the better gas too.
Hold on. You can’t use your Stage 2 Accord anymore as a basis. It’s not stock.
 

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Hold on. You can’t use your Stage 2 Accord anymore as a basis. It’s not stock.
Just trying to help out. I realize I am not stock, that is why I explained it in my post. I was just explaining my findings when I switched back to 87 octane.
 

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I remember hearing that you shouldn't run higher octane, because the higher detonation will damage the engine after a long time of running the higher octane fuel. I read it a long time ago so I don't remember the details. But that's probably for ancient cars; as someone mentioned it's instant adjustment on the new Accord so I don't think it's really a danger to the car. Just your wallet.

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/articles/premium-gas-when-and-why/?r=594836679918207500
An engine's design, which includes such factors as its combustion ratio and its operating temperature, is related to something called an octane rating. Usually, we think of an octane rating as something that applies only to gasoline, but the engine itself has such a rating that represents the minimum octane level that the engine requires for proper operation.

An engine needs a minimum level of octane to avoid ping, which is caused by uncontrolled combustion of fuel inside the cylinders. Excessive ping can severely damage the engine. The octane rating on the gasoline is a measure of its anti-knock or anti-ping properties.

If your car does not ping on regular, then there is no reason to seek a higher-octane gasoline. The anti-knock level of the regular in this case is adequate for the engine.

But as a car gets older, depending on how the car has been driven and cared for, it may need a higher-octane gasoline anytime between four and six years. That's because carbon deposits inside the cylinders raise the combustion ratio, which in turn raises the engine's octane rating. You may notice that your car operated fine on regular fuel when it was new, but pings on regular as it gets older. So, the higher-octane fuel is not something to pamper a new car with but rather help keep an older car running properly.

In addition, premium gasoline has some other selling points. Most premium gasolines have a higher-quality additive package put in at the refinery. The actual additives in a particular brand of gasoline are generally not disclosed by refiners. But usually they include detergents and other solvents that keep the carburetor and rest of the fuel system clean.
 

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There are a lot of good resources in this forum, including a member study of the effect of various octane fuels on the vehicle's knock control. The ECU adjusts very quickly - within a few seconds when the car is under load.

What is impressive about the Honda turbo direct injection engine is that they can run on 87 octane. The direct injection acts as an additional intercooler of the charge, allowing more ignition timing and as a result more performance.

We saw a 9 hp peak gain with 91 octane. Here is the thread with the 91 octane test results.
"a few seconds" is far too long if you want to avoid destroying pistons, and hopefully an exaggeration.

Are you seeing megaknock or LSPI on any of your tunes on any octane level??? 20+MPa combustion spikes are what I am worried about. I know you are not monitoring cylinder pressure but the knock sensors in conjunction with the ignition timing should give a decent clue as to the frequency and severity. Any spikes 0-40º BTDC is a big problem.
 

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So I have Hondata's stage 2 and I have been running 93-94 octane on all my tanks. For the hell of it I have ran 87 octane for 2 tanks now, just for Hondata's knock control study (will be posing up soon) and to see if I did feel a difference. I can assure you I can. It is not a world of a difference but it does feel a bit more sluggish. I am almost done this tank so I will be switching back 100%. I would advise you to put the better gas too.
I am curious to see results. I want to go stage 2 and run 87 octane (I calculate about $350 per year increase running premium). I accept that I won't see maximum gains with the tune, but, I can't believe it will be night and day. However, I do want to make sure it is safe to run with acceptable Knock. Hondata said it should be fine, but, I really want to see some numbers. Let us know when you have them.
 

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I am curious to see results. I want to go stage 2 and run 87 octane (I calculate about $350 per year increase running premium). I accept that I won't see maximum gains with the tune, but, I can't believe it will be night and day. However, I do want to make sure it is safe to run with acceptable Knock. Hondata said it should be fine, but, I really want to see some numbers. Let us know when you have them.
Let me play some devil's advocate...

So you're gonna spend TWICE that amount you calculate on a Flash Pro...then purposefully limit the benefits you're receiving from the tune (giving you less horsepower per dollar spent) just to save $30 a month in fuel costs?...that doesn't make sense to me...

As another option, you could also save yourself $250 on the front end of this situation and buy a KTuner instead...but that's a topic for a different thread/conversation
 

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I am curious to see results. I want to go stage 2 and run 87 octane (I calculate about $350 per year increase running premium). I accept that I won't see maximum gains with the tune, but, I can't believe it will be night and day. However, I do want to make sure it is safe to run with acceptable Knock. Hondata said it should be fine, but, I really want to see some numbers. Let us know when you have them.
Yea I agree with @Metfanant ... i am not doing this for any savings I just wanted to see where the knock control would be. This was just merely for experiment. I would not advise anyone to be doing this because of the sluggish feeling I am getting. My knock numbers are not bad from what I am seeing but regardless.
 

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Let me play some devil's advocate...

So you're gonna spend TWICE that amount you calculate on a Flash Pro...then purposefully limit the benefits you're receiving from the tune (giving you less horsepower per dollar spent) just to save $30 a month in fuel costs?...that doesn't make sense to me...

As another option, you could also save yourself $250 on the front end of this situation and buy a KTuner instead...but that's a topic for a different thread/conversation
Stage 2 is going to feel way faster than stock whether running 87 or 91/93 octane. I bet the difference is negligible. As for Ktuner..I have not decided on Hondata or Ktuner. I'm going to buy one of them..either the $450 or $495 option...not the $695 option. I just want a flash and go, but, I want the device too so, not going to a pro tuner where it is a little cheaper. I want to ability to add updates as they come out. I think all of this is very reasonable even running 87 octane.
 

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So you're gonna spend TWICE that amount you calculate on a Flash Pro...then purposefully limit the benefits you're receiving from the tune (giving you less horsepower per dollar spent) just to save $30 a month in fuel costs?...that doesn't make sense to me...
What does not make sense are the numbers here. $495 for a FlashPro is not twice $350.

I am curious to see results. I want to go stage 2 and run 87 octane (I calculate about $350 per year increase running premium). I accept that I won't see maximum gains with the tune, but, I can't believe it will be night and day. However, I do want to make sure it is safe to run with acceptable Knock. Hondata said it should be fine, but, I really want to see some numbers. Let us know when you have them.
The knock sensor is a microphone, albeit a tuned microphone for the frequencies relevant to knock. The louder the amplitude (volume) of the signal, the greater level of knock. The higher the RPM the greater the noise level also. The ECU filters the signal and compensates for RPM. It then adjusts the ignition timing and if necessary, boost level to reduce the noise level.
 

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Stage 2 is going to feel way faster than stock whether running 87 or 91/93 octane. I bet the difference is negligible. As for Ktuner..I have not decided on Hondata or Ktuner. I'm going to buy one of them..either the $450 or $495 option...not the $695 option. I just want a flash and go, but, I want the device too so, not going to a pro tuner where it is a little cheaper. I want to ability to add updates as they come out. I think all of this is very reasonable even running 87 octane.
faster? Absolutely, I just don't like the idea of adding extra boost and increasing power, and then running lower quality fuel just to save a few bucks a paycheck...I just can't wrap my head around the idea of paying good money for a FlashPro and then losing performance, or potentially inducing detonation by trying to save a few bucks

There is no level of "safe" detonation in a motor...knock will kill a motor...

Obviously it's your money, you're free to spend it however you want...but I doubt you'll ever find a tuner that would recommend you run 25 psi on 87 pump gas...


What does not make sense are the numbers here. $495 for a FlashPro is not twice $350.
For the CARB certified FlashPro, yeah...
 

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In CA there are generally three grades available: 87, 89 and 91. I usually run 89 unless the owner's manual states high octane required. In reality, the price difference is negligible.
 
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