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My discovery with 08 Navi. audio system (ongoing)

177K views 151 replies 55 participants last post by  ASH12 
#1 ·
The thoughts of having a more powerful system has always crossed my head since I first bought the car. I did not want to install another deck but I kept the option open. I started looking into the factory navi audio system to see what type of outputs the system has. The navi audio system has differential balanced outputs directly to the factory amp. Each signal is full range including the sub signal. The sub signal does has bass limiting, I was hoping bass limiting was at the factory amp. I did not find much eqing on the 4 full range signals. That's good news because I can directly run these signals to amps that accept differential balanced signals. The only amps that came to my mind were jl audio, zapco, rockford fosegate, and kicker. I still need a signal processor for the sub channel itself and the mtx re-q came into my mind. Since is main purpose was to restore cut-off bass.

Here's a picture of the connector I drew for the connector feeding differential balanced signals into the factory amp.



For more information about differential balanced outputs:

xxx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360946&page=1&pp=40

replace xxx's with www's

update one: I have all the pinout information along with description.

Stereo Amplifier Connector A (24P) (from head unit to factory amp)

A1 BRN Ground (G402) (GND)
A2 RED Audio unit (FL PRE-)
A3 GRY*Audio unit (SH FL GND)
A4 RED Audio unit (RL PRE-)
A5 RED Audio unit (FR PRE-)
A6 GRY Audio unit (SH FR GND)
A7 RED Audio unit (RR PRE-)
A8 RED Audio unit (SUBW PRE-)
A9 BLK Audio unit (SH SUBW GND)
A11 WHT Audio unit (ANC F-)
A12 GRN Audio unit (ANC R-)
A13 LT GRY Audio unit (AMP MUTE)
A14 GRN Audio unit (FL PRE+)
A15 GRY*Audio unit (SH RL GND)
A16 GRN Audio unit (RL PRE+)
A17 GRN Audio unit (FR PRE+)
A18 GRY*Audio unit (SH RR GND)
A19 GRN Audio unit (RR PRE+)
A20 GRN Audio unit (SUBW PRE+)
A22 RED Audio unit (ANC F+)
A23 BLK Audio unit (ANC R+)
A24 WHT Audio unit (SWD +B)

*The shielded wires have a heat-shrink tube insulating the outside of the wire. The color of the insulating tube,
typically black or dark gray*

From amp to crossovers to speakers

-FL: +Dark Gray / -Purple
-FR: +Pink / -White
-RL: +Yellow / -Brown
-RR: +Dark Blue / -Orange
-Sub: +Gray / -Blue

update #2 (Crossovers separated from the amp, GOOD NEWS!)

Turns out the premium audio system's crossovers are not part of the factory amp which is good news for us. We can now replace speakers freely knowing that these factory crossovers can be replaced. The passenger's crossover is located right behind the six-disc cd changer, and the driver crossover is located under the driver side dash.




Driver's Door Speaker Crossover Network Control Unit 8P Connector

2 GRN Stereo amplifier (FL SP+)
3 PUR Stereo amplifier (FL SP-)
5 RED Left front door tweeter (TWEETER+)
6 GRN Left front door tweeter (TWEETER-)
7 LT GRN Driver's door speaker (SPKR+)
8 PNK Driver's door speaker (SPKR-)

Front Passenger's Door Speaker Crossover Network Control Unit 8P Connector

2 PNK Stereo amplifier (FR SP+)
3 WHT Stereo amplifier (FR SP-)
5 BRN Right front door tweeter (TWEETER+)
6 WHT Right front door tweeter (TWEETER-)
7 GRY Front passenger's door speaker (SPKR+)
8 RED Front passenger's door speaker (SPKR-)

Speaker sizes:
Front speakers: 6.5 inches, requires a adapter for mounting aftermarket speakers
Rear speakers: 6.5 inches, requires a adapter for mounting aftermarket speakers
factory sub (ex, ex-l): 8 inches

I will update this post as I discovery more.:thumbsup:
 
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#3 ·
As you know with differential balanced outputs there is also a shield with each pair of cabling. This shield is used to carry noise away from the amp. Every other upper end car company uses differential balanced outputs on there radios. Maybe Honda decided to jump on the bandwagon? Is it really necessary in a car? Well, it depends. A car's electrical system does have plenty of noise. Only reason this noise doesn't interfere with any of the ecus is because each ecu has there own filter stages on there psus.

Well my other reason is I also believe the Honda accord navi unit is also the same as the 09 Acura TSX navi unit. Engineers are taught to design a product that does exactly what it needs to spending the least amount of money. What better way then to design the unit for the expensive car and then cripple part of the code so the less expensive car can have navi with less features? Mass production of a navi unit is cheap so that's my reasoning.
 
#4 ·
I didn't know that other highend cars were using balanced inputs for their amps. I've never really run into electrical noise being introduced into a system other than ground problems or bad batteries or alternators.

Do you think that eventually there will be a movement towards digital/optical transport of the signal in car audio? I know pioneer tried and failed with one of their premier lines released only in japan. Perhaps it would need to be started in the OEM sector in order for it to catch on in the aftermarket.
 
#5 ·
I highly doubt any car manufacture will move to optical/digital anytime soon. In the aftermarket sector for digital/optical for audio signals. A few people I know who has car computers in their car have digital/optical 5.1 thx surround sound. Optical cables are still expensive. If i had to pick between the two, I would pick a shield coax cable to carry my 5.1 signal. Is cheaper and does the job well. Optical does have a larger bandwidth and less likely to pickup interference.
 
#6 ·
Speaker connectors

Sorry to be annoying if I am missing something obvious here, but am I correct in assuming that there is one connector with speaker outputs from the stereo and eq going to the factory amp and another connector coming out of the amp and going to the speakers?

What I would like to do is grab clean, unamplified signal at connector 1 and then after I pass it through my amp, feed it back into connector 2 leading to the speakers.

Please advise... :)
 
#7 ·
Sorry to be annoying if I am missing something obvious here, but am I correct in assuming that there is one connector with speaker outputs from the stereo and eq going to the factory amp and another connector coming out of the amp and going to the speakers?

What I would like to do is grab clean, unamplified signal at connector 1 and then after I pass it through my amp, feed it back into connector 2 leading to the speakers.

Please advise... :)
almost exactly what im lloking to do except I ran new wire in the doors Its a better wire for one.... handles more power for 2. and 3 its a piece of cake to run about 15 to m20 minutes each door... :)
 
#10 ·
I was able to finish the entire install yesterday with the information you shared.
The only thing is that your cable colors seem very different from mine, so I found the diagram elsewhere :)
Do you have the premium audio system?
I do with Navi. What amps and speakers did you pick for your install? Would you like to donate me your factory amp so I can do somemore studying?
 
#13 ·
Kinda an off the wall question, but

Do you think that the way the premium audio is set up makes adding components to the system easier? As opposed to the standard issue audio system? Reason I ask is, the only reason I purchased the premium package was so I would not want to upgrade stereo. Well, im starting to regret it. To me the premium does not sound that great and i am looking for a way to justify my purchase.
And of course being able to upgrade easier will help in the justification process.. :naughty:

Sorry if this is off topic
 
#14 ·
lol....I would say is pretty easy. Seeing how I found the pin-outs, which make it simple. Either you use the differential balanced signals directly or you will use a sound processor. Its all straight forward.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the info man. It's very helpful. Did you ever get around to putting in the MTX RE-Q? I bought one, and I've got a quick question about installing it.
 
#18 ·
Looking at your description of the pinout, there is a Subw +, Subw -, and a Subw ground on the factory harness. On the RE-Q, there are only wires for the Subw + and -. What did you connect the Subw ground wire to? Or do I not have to worry about that because the RE-Q is grounded itself?
 
#20 ·
so for final clarification, as not to ruin the factory head unit... the balanced sub - and + are tapped BEFORE the factory amp and connected directly to the MTX RE-Q. The sub sheild wire is left in-tact connected to the factory amp and not used in the install?
 
#22 ·
Thanks buddy. I appreciate the info.
 
#23 ·
OMG I am so damn confused. Type to me like I am 5yo...lol. Explain some things for me. here is what i plan on doing:

Memphis M-class 6.5 components (F)
Memphis M-class 6.5 2-way (R)
4x50 Memphis Amp
Audio Control LC6i- Six Channel Line Output Converter With Internal Summing

Now I'm one of the few young guys that doesn't mind the OEM sub. Now here are my questions:

-Should i even use the x-overs that come with the Memphis speakers and use stock x-overs?
-what could i do to keep the sub channel from reducing base relative to volume level?
-Do i really need the Audio Control unit and could you explain what this does. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated.

http://www.mobileaudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=222456&d_Id=17612&l1=17612&l2= that's the link to the LC6i.
 
#24 ·
You need the audio control unit because the amp you choose doesnt accept differential balanced outputs. Connect the audio control unit to the pre-amp signals (the signals before the amp). Get rid of the factory crossovers and use the new crossovers. You cannot do anything about the bass getting cutting off by the factory deck if you are keeping the factory sub.
 
#25 ·
Okay!!! Thank you for everything bro!!!
 
#27 ·
Audio control is a line converter. turns your outputs to rca's so you get clean signal from the amp. Cleansweep goes further. the Audio control is 50-60.00 cheaper too.
 
#29 ·
Question for you guys. I got an Audio Control LC7 for my install. But the amp (memphis m-class) has balanced/unbalanced inputs. Do i need an amp like this since i have the LC7? If not, I'll just do their power reference amp. Thx.
 
#32 ·
Well, I just confirmed that the four speakers, two tweeters, and subwoofer are the exact same used in the 09 TSX (base/premium stereo/non-ELS) with the 09 Accord Coupe (EX+/premium stereo). The TSX has the 360 watt amplifer, and they are different part numbers. I will continue to look.....
 
#34 ·
So through some more digging, I could not find the crossovers that the Accord uses in the front stage in the TSX. This means that I believe the TSX 360 amplifier separates the tweeter signal itself internally, and then directly connects each speaker. Which A) might be where this extra power comes in, so B) the amplifier might not really be all that much more powerful, and C) most likely will not connect "easily" to the stock system, which easy is the whole reason I was looking into it. Dah well, upgraded speakers only will have to do. :)
 
#35 ·
I had a feeling it wouldn't be a direct plug-in in-n-play. I know the last generation tsx had the eqs in the amp itself. It seems the current generation does too.
 
#42 ·
You will have to bypass the factory amp unless your double din setup outputs differentials balance signals for the factory amp.
 
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