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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
people,

foremost, i apologize for my lack of knowledge in this area.

When i first got my car (feb 2012), i replaced all 4 rotors and pads with top quality parts at 90K miles. Wearever gold rotors and ceramic pads.

8-9 months ago, around 112K miles, my father convinced me to cheap out and only get my front rotors resurfaced and front pads replaced because it was time.
This was my 2nd brake job on this car.

it is now time for another brake job. I am currently at the lower level on my brake fluid reservoir and fast approaching 123K miles.

My questions are:
1) should all four rotors be replaced or resurfaced?
2) how much of a difference is there b/w the v6 accord braking system vs i4? is there a way i can upgrade to the v6 system if it is better without any major modifications? e.g. rotors, calipers..
3) last question is something that may be universal...so whenever a car gets an upgrade in the braking system, does that include: better rotors and pads (obviously) larger caliper, newer lines (steel braided) and a brake system reflush...is that all? what else would a person do besides those when it comes to upgrading the stopping power.

thanks
 

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You are a brake eating machine. 22k miles on the first brake job and 11k miles on the 2nd brake job you did.
All the brake upgrading in the world won't slow down the wear you're experiencing (it could some).
Top quality products will buy you some time, but your driving style is going to be your biggest enemy. .
 

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Please, NEVER apologize for not knowing something. Nice that you are taking care of your ride.

1) Generally, you should not resurface rotors. The cost of doing so and the problems that usually result are not worth it. You can replace rotors in pairs, just the fronts or just the rears.

2) There is a difference between the V6 6 speed coupe's brakes and the i4 front brakes. The rears are exactly the same. The 6 speed coupe has larger front calipers, rotors, and pads- that's it. The brake lines underneath your car as well as the brake line hose (from the steel line to the caliper) are the same. Same fluid too. In order to upgrade to that system, you will need new calipers, pads, and rotors. (EDIT: and maybe caliper brackets, too. I don't know)

3) The best thing to do to improve braking power is make sure you have good tires at the correct pressure.....really. Next of course are the rotors, pads, and fluid. Some members switch to steel braided brake "hoses" from the lines to the calipers- and is not a bad idea as our cars get older and rubber deteriorates over time.....but these stock rubber hoses can go 25 years.

My questions to you:
a) Why is it "time" for another brake job?
b) How did you determine that you needed a brake job 9 months ago? Why do you think you need one now?
c) Did you flush your brake fluid last time?
d) Were the rotors resurfaced "on the car" last time? Or were they removed and resurfaced off the car?

Fluid gets low because the pads are worn, and are pushed in. It is normal to need to top off brake fluid when the pad material wears down and becomes thinner. It does not indicate that you need a brake job, only that your brakes are working as they should.

Since you resurfaced the rotors last time, I would bet you would need to purchase new front rotors this time. Really can't/should not resurface them twice- let alone once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Please, NEVER apologize for not knowing something. Nice that you are taking care of your ride.

1) Generally, you should not resurface rotors. The cost of doing so and the problems that usually result are not worth it. You can replace rotors in pairs, just the fronts or just the rears.

2) There is a difference between the V6 6 speed coupe's brakes and the i4 front brakes. The rears are exactly the same. The 6 speed coupe has larger front calipers, rotors, and pads- that's it. The brake lines underneath your car as well as the brake line hose (from the steel line to the caliper) are the same. Same fluid too. In order to upgrade to that system, you will need new calipers, pads, and rotors.

3) The best thing to do to improve braking power is make sure you have good tires at the correct pressure.....really. Next of course are the rotors, pads, and fluid. Some members switch to steel braided brake "hoses" from the lines to the calipers- and is not a bad idea as our cars get older and rubber deteriorates over time.....but these stock rubber hoses can go 25 years.

My questions to you:
a) Why is it "time" for another brake job?
b) How did you determine that you needed a brake job 9 months ago? Why do you think you need one now?
c) Did you flush your brake fluid last time?
d) Were the rotors resurfaced "on the car" last time? Or were they removed and resurfaced off the car?

Fluid gets low because the pads are worn, and are pushed in. It is normal to need to top off brake fluid when the pad material wears down and becomes thinner. It does not indicate that you need a brake job, only that your brakes are working as they should.

Since you resurfaced the rotors last time, I would bet you would need to purchase new front rotors this time. Really can't/should not resurface them twice- let alone once.
first of all, thank you very much for your quick response. Jimnfor made me feel bad about my driving style. he is correct, some days i have to drive like a NASCAR driver but i never over do or do it at the wrong time to endanger anybody's life. However, i usually drive 55-60 mph and i don't ever, ever fully engage the brake pedal to slow down, nor do i brake aggressively at higher speeds 60+.

the first time i got my brakes replaced, it was because my father felt it would make the car 100% for daily driving. They weren't bad but could use some care. We went ahead and got all four rotors and pairs of pads replaced.

when i got my rotors resurfaced the second time, i would say they still had about 30% life left in them. however, i am all about preventative maintenance and was kind of bored also. The rotors were taken off the car and resurfaced and only the front pads were replaced with platinum pads or something.

I would say my front brakes still have about 5000-7000K miles of life left in them. I have a feeling the mechanic did not top off the brake fluid reservoir as much the second time. The brake fluids never been flushed as long as i've owned this car.

my last comments are: i know i may be doing my brake jobs a bit too early. Id say i currently have 40% life left in my front brakes before that slight grinding and shaking feel starts happening. id say i have about 15-20% on my rear brakes. I am looking to get my brakes replaced in the next 3-4K miles.

i may got with the v6 accord components.. are they direct fit?
 

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jimnfor speaks the truth- he is just pointing out that you are eating brakes quickly and that upgrading to the V6 6 speed brake system won't "cure" your problem.

1) You must invest $10-$20 on a digital caliper measuring tool (like from Harbor Freight). This will tell you the thickness of the rotors and THEN YOU, yes YOU, can decide if they are still within spec or not.

2) Lots of mechanics (independent and Honda) will say you should do your brakes because "you only have 30% remaining". They lie. I will say it again....they lie. The 30% figure comes from human nature. If they said you only have 10% remaining- you would question it as your brakes are still new-ish. If they said you have 50% remaining, well, you would NOT get your brakes replaced that day. So 30% is a magic number they use. Only a digital caliper tool will tell you the truth.

3) A mistake was made by resurfacing the rotors off the car. Believe it or not, if you are going to resurface rotors, they should be done on the car, not off. Making the rotors thinner by resurfacing makes them weaker- they can't dissipate heat as quickly and become more prone to "warping".

4) Don't worry about replacing brakes. If you have a few tools, chances are you can do the brakes yourself. It really is easy. But it sounds scary, right, because mechanics will terrorize you and say only a "pro" should work on brakes. If you can dodge a wrench, you can wrench a car's brakes. Lots of great write-ups on this forum on how to do it, and lots of people here willing to help. Really- you would be amazed how easy it is and how if you have a question about brakes there are 50 members here who do them regularly.

5) You MUST change your brake fluid! Brake fluid is hygroscopic- which means it attracts water over time and loses its effectiveness. There is a great write-up on this forum on how to do this. I do mine every 2 years- but the book calls for three years.

6) As for V6 6 speed direct fit....someone who has done this should chime in. I wonder about the caliper brackets....I think you will need new ones made for the V6 6 speed. Never thought about it because if I fry my brakes I can (and have) replace all four rotors and pads in 90 minutes and they are so cheap!
 

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Have you ever replaced your calipers? All 4 calipers on my 03 accord are now replaced, they started to stick one by one starting in 2010 to 2013. If you have stuck calipers, they eat your rotors and pads prematurely.

If you are a DIY type of person, you can replace all 4 calipers, rotors and pads (and flush the brake fluid) for about $500. it's really not that hard, and there are lots of videos and guides, on this forum and elsewhere. If not, prepare to be astonished by the repair bill.
 

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Hey OP, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad brother. Just making an observation. It's a fact that some people are harder on brakes than others.
 

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If you upgrade to the V6-6 rotors, you will also need calipers, brackets & pads. They will last longer because the rotors are thicker helping dissipate heat.
 

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Have you ever replaced your calipers? All 4 calipers on my 03 accord are now replaced, they started to stick one by one starting in 2010 to 2013. If you have stuck calipers, they eat your rotors and pads prematurely.

If you are a DIY type of person, you can replace all 4 calipers, rotors and pads (and flush the brake fluid) for about $500. it's really not that hard, and there are lots of videos and guides, on this forum and elsewhere. If not, prepare to be astonished by the repair bill.
You can check quickly for frozen calipers. You'll want to check one wheel at a time. Be sure to do it on a level surface and with the other axle chocked.

With the transmission in neutral and the parking brake engaged, the front wheels should spin rather freely. There may be some small amount of resistance, but if one or both are difficult to turn, it's time to replace. In my opinion, it's best to buy a remanufactured caliper and go from there. I always replace in pairs - if one is bad, the other is likely to follow soon.

Do the rear wheels with the parking brake off and the transmission in park/gear. Same deal here - the wheel should spin freely. Only difference is that any drag could be from an improperly adjusted/frozen parking brake mechanism.

I second that it is almost impossible to ask a dumb question. The closest thing to a dumb question I ever heard was in 1995. The hospital where Mickey Mantle had just received a liver transplant was holding a press conference and a reporter asked, "How's the donor?"
 

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Question. Did you resurface because you believe it was the prudent thing to do, or was there another reason, such as pulsating at highway speeds (warped)? If all you had were worn pads and no other symptoms, then you did not need to resurface. Resurfacing causes a domino effect. It reduces mass, which causes the rotor to heat up and warp faster... along with reduced stopping power. The rotors you got were likely expensive, so I can understand resurfacing once if truly needed, but after that, I'd buy new.

While conventional wisdom says you should keep unsprung weight at a minimum, I always buy the thickest and heaviest rotors I can find. I actually compare weight and get the heaviest ones. I don't play around with brakes.

As others have said, be sure your brake calipers are not sticking. The slide pins need to be greased each time the brakes are changed. Also, I used to change pads a lot more than I do nowadays. The pad material makes a difference. Get some Wagner Thermoquiet ceramics (also available at Advance) and I guarantee you won't be changing them again anytime soon.
 

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I would advise you to watch a few how-to videos on brakes, like from ericthecarguy (and as many others as you can stand to watch). He does some things I might not agree with (like pinching the brake hose with vise-grips), but he will show you how to do all the different things, like flushing the fluid, checking and lubricating the calipers, changing the pads and rotors. Things like turning in the pistons on the rear calipers (and setting them in the correct position afterwards), cleaning the rust off the calipers, and getting the rotor screws out, are things you should see someone do before trying it yourself, IMO. People can tell you how to do a brake service, but there is nothing like seeing someone do it with your own eyes. Even professionals screw up brake jobs, so the more you know, the better off you'll be. Good luck
 

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first of all, thank you very much for your quick response. Jimnfor made me feel bad about my driving style. he is correct, some days i have to drive like a NASCAR driver but i never over do or do it at the wrong time to endanger anybody's life. However, i usually drive 55-60 mph and i don't ever, ever fully engage the brake pedal to slow down, nor do i brake aggressively at higher speeds 60+.

the first time i got my brakes replaced, it was because my father felt it would make the car 100% for daily driving. They weren't bad but could use some care. We went ahead and got all four rotors and pairs of pads replaced.

when i got my rotors resurfaced the second time, i would say they still had about 30% life left in them. however, i am all about preventative maintenance and was kind of bored also. The rotors were taken off the car and resurfaced and only the front pads were replaced with platinum pads or something.

I would say my front brakes still have about 5000-7000K miles of life left in them. I have a feeling the mechanic did not top off the brake fluid reservoir as much the second time. The brake fluids never been flushed as long as i've owned this car.

my last comments are: i know i may be doing my brake jobs a bit too early. Id say i currently have 40% life left in my front brakes before that slight grinding and shaking feel starts happening. id say i have about 15-20% on my rear brakes. I am looking to get my brakes replaced in the next 3-4K miles.

i may got with the v6 accord components.. are they direct fit?
1. NASCAR drivers never touch the brakes.....:dunno:

2. You and your father need to stop replacing parts based on how you feel.

III. The brakes weren't bad, but could use some care. You then replace all components? :scratch:

D. How are you estimating the 40% front and 20% rear remaining life? Are you looking at the pads, rotors, or are you even looking?

Also, how do you wear out a set of brakes in 10k miles??????
 

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Just to let you know that OEM brakes can last I have 215,000 on my 2007 Honda Accord SE.... Replaced rear brakes at 90,000 front brakes at 105,000. I still have about 40% on pads now..... Mostly highway miles and anticpate slowing down and easy on the brakes....Rotors are original and no pulsing at all.....
 

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My 03 exl I4at coupe eats brakes just like yours, oem only lasted 22k. I have experienced a few too many warped rotors going through the mtns. in my other cars so I too wanted thicker rotors (since I needed new brakes anyway).
ANY V6 from 03-08 will have the larger dia. and thicker front rotors, ( rear were the same ), you will need calipers AND brackets in order to fit the new rotors. I just bought a nice used set that came from an 08 at the wrecker, cleaned up, new seals, pads & rotors.
You WILL need to modify the edge of the disk shield as it JUST touches the rotor, I used a hammer and dolly to tweak the perimeter and you would be hard pressed to notice.
I used napa rotors and centric pads and these do not feel so touchy like my old OEM's.
Fwiw, Honda switched in 08 so that all models got the big front brakes AND the bigger battery LOL.
 

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ANY V6 from 03-08 will have the larger dia. and thicker front rotors.
Not so. The 03-07 4 cylinder automatic sedan, and 03-07 V6 automatic sedan have the same front rotors. I think only the V6 6 speeds have larger front rotors.
 

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jimnfor speaks the truth- he is just pointing out that you are eating brakes quickly and that upgrading to the V6 6 speed brake system won't "cure" your problem.

1) You must invest $10-$20 on a digital caliper measuring tool (like from Harbor Freight). This will tell you the thickness of the rotors and THEN YOU, yes YOU, can decide if they are still within spec or not.

2) Lots of mechanics (independent and Honda) will say you should do your brakes because "you only have 30% remaining". They lie. I will say it again....they lie. The 30% figure comes from human nature. If they said you only have 10% remaining- you would question it as your brakes are still new-ish. If they said you have 50% remaining, well, you would NOT get your brakes replaced that day. So 30% is a magic number they use. Only a digital caliper tool will tell you the truth.

3) A mistake was made by resurfacing the rotors off the car. Believe it or not, if you are going to resurface rotors, they should be done on the car, not off. Making the rotors thinner by resurfacing makes them weaker- they can't dissipate heat as quickly and become more prone to "warping".

4) Don't worry about replacing brakes. If you have a few tools, chances are you can do the brakes yourself. It really is easy. But it sounds scary, right, because mechanics will terrorize you and say only a "pro" should work on brakes. If you can dodge a wrench, you can wrench a car's brakes. Lots of great write-ups on this forum on how to do it, and lots of people here willing to help. Really- you would be amazed how easy it is and how if you have a question about brakes there are 50 members here who do them regularly.

5) You MUST change your brake fluid! Brake fluid is hygroscopic- which means it attracts water over time and loses its effectiveness. There is a great write-up on this forum on how to do this. I do mine every 2 years- but the book calls for three years.

6) As for V6 6 speed direct fit....someone who has done this should chime in. I wonder about the caliper brackets....I think you will need new ones made for the V6 6 speed. Never thought about it because if I fry my brakes I can (and have) replace all four rotors and pads in 90 minutes and they are so cheap!
RickBlaine: All great points. Re 1) Did you forgot about my "magic" magnet trick in accurately surmounting the "lip" of the rotor when taking measurements?

OP: By all means, get a digital metric caliper as RB suggested. They are critical to measure your own rotors. But make sure you are not measuring the "lip" on the outer edge that's created by the pads. Otherwise you are just measuring the original rotor thickness. This is all assuming you have a lip on the rotor...

Cut and paste job from my previous thread:

"MEASURING ROTORS: Yes, get yourself a vernier or digital METRIC measuring tool. However, if you get the one pictured from Harbor Freight or something similar, you will need to deal with the small lip that is created at the outer edge brake rotor and the inner most diameter edge, otherwise you'll be taking a false measurement that merely is your original rotor thickness. The calipers pictured do not have a nodule on the end to overcome this lip. So either you have to either get a machinist's micrometer or do what I do with my measuring tool: get a couple very small round magnets (Radio Shack/$2.50 for four) and put them on your rotor on the inside and outside. Measure using your tool with the magnets in place. Then measure the two magnets together by themselves. Subtract the original measurement and assess what the minimum is (stamped on rotor). Actually, if you have a capability of zeroing, then you can skip the subtraction part. This, of course, is a poor man's method instead of using a real $200 professional brake rotor measurement tool that has deeper throats and can get to all parts of the rotor, but my method works extremely well. Or invest in a quality micrometer with the nodule. Make sure it's metric and not standard, otherwise you'll be constantly googling the conversion."
 

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Thanks for the correction, I meant to say that 08-12 all models are the same front rotor as the 03-07 v6 mt.
That's not true either.

08-12 LX trims use the same rotor as on 03-07 non-V6 6MT. 08-12 trims above LX use the same front rotor as on 03-07 V6 6MT
 

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@Smurf: An excellent reminder on how to properly measure the rotors! Thank you. I did not forget, but omitted your trick as I felt the issue was to get him a measuring tool first.

I will do an updated brake thread in the spring and will include your info!
 

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That's not true either.

08-12 LX trims use the same rotor as on 03-07 non-V6 6MT. 08-12 trims above LX use the same front rotor as on 03-07 V6 6MT
Lovely, the one model in 08-12 I did not check, although I see it is the only model not listed with V6?
I went back to college hills and noticed that the V6MT sedan also has the small rotors in 03-07? So it appears that only coupes with V6MT were built with large rotors in 03-07.
 
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