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Would you go for a higher output sedan from a competitor in the absence of the 2.0t Accord?

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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I just got an email from my sales consultant who works at the Honda dealership where I have leased my last three Hondas asking my next move. Now, I haven't mentioned it directly, but have already decided on keeping (buying out) the 10G in the foreseeable future (4-5 years at least), but it got me thinking... what if the TLX gets discontinued or say, if I have a bunch of kids five years from now (thus making the TLX a near impossible option), what will be there to choose from? So, it got me thinking... as much as I love Honda's, I love their big sedans first and foremost ie. reliable, roomy, relatively fun/exciting to drive and fuel efficient (for what it is). If their available options become relatively undesirable, it might be time to think about the competitors...

Assuming you were looking to upgrade to another 2.0t Accord or were in the market for one in 5 years and that Honda's more expensive 2.0t choice (TLX) isn't a practical choice / on your list, would you go for either of the two following? The following turbo versions are still available from Accord's other main competitors (with Camry's powertrains remain to be seen) in the next model year (2023) and possibly, in the foreseeable future:

2023 Altima 2.0 VC turbo
Nissan Altima

2023 Hyundai N-line
Hyundai Sonata

Why or why not? If neither would be on your list, what else would you consider instead? Give up the higher output and go back to /with the 1.5t with CVT. Accord hybrid? SUVs? Discuss.
 

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I wouldn't buy a new Honda (or any brand new vehicle for that matter) to begin with (so even the V6 would still be on the table for me), but for the sake of the question, let's suppose I have to buy a new vehicle, nothing used.

I've never been opposed to owning a hybrid (unlike a fully electric vehicle) so the Accord hybrid would definitely be an option.

I know for certain that I wouldn't get the 1.5T Accord. Not enough juice in that engine based on my experience with my old I4 Accord.

If I wasn't looking for a family vehicle, high on my list would be the Integra...very nice vehicle that I've been eyeing for that 6 speed.

Before becoming a Honda-exclusive owner (which wasn't really intentional when it first happened back in 2012, it just happened to work out that way), I was a Nissan-exclusive owner with a 1994 Sentra and a 1996 Maxima. Both were extremely solid vehicles. I kept the Sentra for about 12 years before the need for a family car combined with a failed A/C system in it prompted me to buy the Odyssey that I still have today. The Maxima was an equally solid vehicle with a lot of sentimental value, and I kept that for 16 years before I decided it was time for something newer and got the 2010 Accord.

When I was looking for a vehicle to replace that Accord, I considered returning to Nissan, but I wasn't really convinced by their CVTs and when I talked to my mechanic about it, he mentioned that he sees a lot of electrical issues with them, which steered me away from it. So the Altima probably wouldn't be the one for me.

One of the things I noticed in my car search was that I became so used to the larger size of the 8th gen Accord that I was hesitant to get something smaller than that. The problem with that is that the 8th gen Accord was an abnormality in the history of the Accord in terms of size. It's larger than what came before it and it's also larger than what came after it. So there's really nothing else like it.

I guess I'd be stuck with the Accord Hybrid.
 
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More cars, more problems
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Every Altima I've ever seen is almost always bashed up and weaving between lanes at twice the speed limit. Big Altima Energy is a real thing. That and Nissan's CVT is a hateful piece of machinery.

Hyundai, I just don't know. They've come so far in just a decade and I want to like them, but I don't know if I could do it beyond a cheap used one for a winter beater.

I'd recommend a Camry over either of them.
 

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VC is too complex, I hold my doubts about Hyundai/Kia engines.
I would try to get a 540i with the M sport package. BMW is at the pinnacle of their reliability right now as long as you stay away from their twin turbo V8. Although the 48V mild hybrid in the current model year is a bit concerning with the added complexity. But sub 5 sec 0-60 at 34mpg in the real world sounds awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I wouldn't buy a new Honda (or any brand new vehicle for that matter) to begin with (so even the V6 would still be on the table for me), but for the sake of the question, let's suppose I have to buy a new vehicle, nothing used.

I've never been opposed to owning a hybrid (unlike a fully electric vehicle) so the Accord hybrid would definitely be an option.

I know for certain that I wouldn't get the 1.5T Accord. Not enough juice in that engine based on my experience with my old I4 Accord.

If I wasn't looking for a family vehicle, high on my list would be the Integra...very nice vehicle that I've been eyeing for that 6 speed.

Before becoming a Honda-exclusive owner (which wasn't really intentional when it first happened back in 2012, it just happened to work out that way), I was a Nissan-exclusive owner with a 1994 Sentra and a 1996 Maxima. Both were extremely solid vehicles. I kept the Sentra for about 12 years before the need for a family car combined with a failed A/C system in it prompted me to buy the Odyssey that I still have today. The Maxima was an equally solid vehicle with a lot of sentimental value, and I kept that for 16 years before I decided it was time for something newer and got the 2010 Accord.

When I was looking for a vehicle to replace that Accord, I considered returning to Nissan, but I wasn't really convinced by their CVTs and when I talked to my mechanic about it, he mentioned that he sees a lot of electrical issues with them, which steered me away from it. So the Altima probably wouldn't be the one for me.

One of the things I noticed in my car search was that I became so used to the larger size of the 8th gen Accord that I was hesitant to get something smaller than that. The problem with that is that the 8th gen Accord was an abnormality in the history of the Accord in terms of size. It's larger than what came before it and it's also larger than what came after it. So there's really nothing else like it.

I guess I'd be stuck with the Accord Hybrid.
Fair and reasonable point. It鈥檚 not that I don鈥檛 like the hybrid either. In fact, as I stated before, I was going to get a HAH just before test driving the 2.0t. It鈥檚 just I liked the 2.0t more, not just pure performance, but also the way it drives. HAH鈥檚 noise under full throttle is always disheartening. Other than that, it鈥檚 a beautiful sedan and one hell of an effort from Honda.

As far as Nissan, I think there鈥檚 some sort of charm with the older gens (just like good old Hondas :D). My cousin has had one 06-07 (maybe older) gen. for a long time, it still hasn鈥檛 died. Not sure if it鈥檚 the original trans though. The sunroof was also a bit weird.

I also drove an older Altima rental on a road trip to Chicago like 10 years or so ago. Not bad, rather comfy. But it drove a bit weird. At one point I felt the trans was slipping on the highway lol. But we made it there and back safe and sound.

My concern with Nissan is if the CVT will hold up long term. For the sake of our discussion, let鈥檚 assume it will :D.

Every Altima I've ever seen is almost always bashed up and weaving between lanes at twice the speed limit. Big Altima Energy is a real thing. That and Nissan's CVT is a hateful piece of machinery.

Hyundai, I just don't know. They've come so far in just a decade and I want to like them, but I don't know if I could do it beyond a cheap used one for a winter beater.

I'd recommend a Camry over either of them.
Yep. Same. At this point, if Toyota still keeps an high output option, that would be the way to go. But with all we鈥檝e seen so far, it seems to suggest that Camry will suffer the same fate. :/

In fact, I don鈥檛 think Honda would have the balls to drop the 2.0t if they don鈥檛 have the intel that Camry would pull a similar move. 15% of 200k+ cars @32-38k each is still a lot to simply give up.


VC is too complex, I hold my doubts about Hyundai/Kia engines.
I would try to get a 540i with the M sport package. BMW is at the pinnacle of their reliability right now as long as you stay away from their twin turbo V8. Although the 48V mild hybrid in the current model year is a bit concerning with the added complexity. But sub 5 sec 0-60 at 34mpg in the real world sounds awesome.
True. I鈥檇 like to believe Hyundais have improved vastly, but there seems to be reliability issues with Hyundai still. The reviewer does seem to like the N-line quite a bit though and there鈥檚 that 10 year warranty. :D But yeah, besides that, I can鈥檛 stomach a car looking like the current gen Sonata either. I鈥檒l wait and see what their next brings first. Hope they still keep the N-line and make it more refined.

Sure, BMW 5 series would be awesome too. But in all likelihood, it鈥檚 probably too much than I鈥檒l be willing to pay for one brand new a few years down the road. Maybe in my retirement years? :D
 

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I have never owned a Nissan but I bought a new 21 sonata n line in red. I bought it because of the hp and torque numbers. The wet dual clutch was a bit wonky IMHO, but lived with it for 7 months. Some owners started having issues with the push button tranny leaving them on the side of the road. because of the shortage of parts for these cars it would at times take 3-4 months to get a replacement transmission. Yep, Huyndai would insist on replacing the whole transmission. I didn鈥檛 have that issue with mine but didn鈥檛 feel confident that my n line would remain trouble free. i soon traded it in.
 

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Victus - 2012 Honda Accord (EX-L V6)
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Not completely on-topic, but I recently had another chance to ride in a family member's Pacifica hybrid, one that I've also driven on several occasions, and I was once again impressed by it. A Chrysler (or any other American vehicle) would never have been on my list, but that car has been good quality, very little road noise, and it has been quite reliable for them. It also drives fantastic. I get that flukes happen, but seeing that at least put them on my radar.
 

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I'm going to wait for the Mid-Cycle Refresh on the TLX and hope for a touchscreen. I'll take the bloated equity in my Accord with low miles and get a TLX if they add a few horses and the touchscreen. A type-S Integra is also a real possibility, as much as I don't want a liftback.

If not, I'll be looking at Lexus if they ever update the powertrain in the IS, or a BMW/Audi with plenty of bumper to bumper warranty.
 
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The Camry is still available with the 3.5L V6... granted my guess is that will go away with the 2024 redesign (assuming that is when the Camry is redone. While I wouldn't call a Camry an "enthusiast" car by any stretch- the 3.5L V6 is certainly more engaging to drive than the base four or hybrid powertrains.

I wouldn't buy an Altima. That company's quality control went pretty lax over the past twenty years. Although I think that perhaps they are improving... they have a lot of trust to reestablish before they ever get any of my money. Long gone are the days of how well-made their 90s Maximas were.

I've heard too many horror stories regarding Hyundai/Kia to give them my money either. Almost everyone that I know that has owned one long-term has had issues with them. My dad's 2016ish Santa Fe needed a new engine/transmission at the 70k mile mark... my sister's Kia minivan (2017ish) has tons of issues, and a few friends have had many issues too. The only person I know personally that hasn't had a problem with their Kia/Hyundai after a few years/miles is my mom- whose 2017 Elantra is still working fine... although it only has about 4500 miles on the odometer. It's been in the shop for a few recalls- but other than that...

I really wonder what Toyota is going to do with the Camry's powertrain offerings when the current generation is replaced. The 3.5L V6 is almost certainly going to be dropped. Will Toyota offer the 2.5L turbo that seems to be the engine that's replacing the 3.5L V6 in other applications? Will they offer a higher performance hybrid option (A hybrid Max with 300ish HP?).

While I understand that sedan sales are down significantly over the past few years- I continue to believe that there's a decent demand for fun and engaging sedans that can be both practical and fun-to-drive. I really don't understand Honda's decision to drop the 2.0t engine option. The engine is still being used in other vehicles within the Honda/Acura lineup- so it's not like it would have cost them tons of money to keep as an option. The take-rate seems decent now that they've eliminated the slow-selling 2.0t EXL trim level. 2.0t Sport and 2.0t Touring models have always sold well... so I'm not sure why they eliminated it.
 

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I'm keeping my 8th gen V6 indefinitely as a hobby. When it gets really old, the only additional car I'd consider would be a Subaru.
 

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I'm in 'Go Big or Go Home' mode: Tesla Model 3 performance. $58k, 0-60 3.1sec, 300 mi range. (Standard 3 is low $40k)

Aware option this may not work for everyone due to cost, range, availability of superchargers, etc...
Living in San Diego, Tesla's are as common as Accords or Camrys on the road. There are several superchargers in my area and I can easily install a 240v charger in my home garage. I don't have to commute anymore. All of my road trips will be in the western US so charging and extremely cold weather won't be a factor.
 

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Altima. I've owned a 3.5 SE, and it's an extremely well balanced car with near-neutral handling with a wonderful 4-cam V6 with cam phasing ... you can steer with the throttle, and it has enough oomph to do that with solid summer performance tires on the rims. On top of that, smooth ride.

On another note, not as reliable as an Accord, nowhere close to any Toyota sedan in the reliability department. It's Nissan.

Knowing what I know now about Nissans, and from personal experience, you must install additional grounds between unibody and engine, and upgrade the negative battery cable-to-unibody-to-driveline cable (or reburb all contact points). For some reason, the Altima and Maxima are much happier, electronically speaking, when this is done.

Once I slew the electrical demons, it was a fairly reliable, good-performing car.

OF
 

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If you want to go fast that means EV. Chevy killed the Camaro. Ram is winding down the Hellcats. Camry is going hybrid only.

I do think that many will find that with an Accord Hybrid they gain a lot more than than they lose by not having a V6 or 2.0t. Honda has made it clear, if you want a 2.0T you'll need an Acura or the CTR so that's gonna cost you so it's probably best to hit the reset button and reconsider.. If some more plug in Hybrids are introduced they may fill the void for those that don't want pure EV.

I had a V6 Accord and got a plain RAV4 Hybrid and gained more. Have AWD, passing power on the highway and the ability to close gaps is closer to the Accord V6 than you think it would be. Zero lag with throttle response and no downshifts to wait for and doesn't feel like a CVT unless you floor it. Accord V6 was excellent smooth and effortless and for highway only driving where VCM gave it some outstanding MPG's but that's about the only advantage I can think of. V6's are dying off now so my take is you might as well get a 4 banger with a battery instead of a 4 banger with a turbo. The new hybrids that Toyota has coming out with a 4 banger and a turbo aren't about MPG's they're about power and it will cross the 50k mark to get it.
 

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Although I think the Sonata N would be a good contender, I don't think I'd invest in any Hyundai product in the foreseeable future. This recent update on their long term tester from C&D doesn't inspire any new confidence. I did own a 2009 Veracruz that was nice, but glad I got out of it when I did after 8 years.

If I had to make the choice today with the 2.0 out of Honda's sedan lineup, I'd be hopping the fence over to a Lexus IS. I've always been a fan and was previously headed towards a used one when the Accord caught my attention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for all the engaging replies everyone.
I have never owned a Nissan but I bought a new 21 sonata n line in red. I bought it because of the hp and torque numbers. The wet dual clutch was a bit wonky IMHO, but lived with it for 7 months. Some owners started having issues with the push button tranny leaving them on the side of the road. because of the shortage of parts for these cars it would at times take 3-4 months to get a replacement transmission. Yep, Huyndai would insist on replacing the whole transmission. I didn鈥檛 have that issue with mine but didn鈥檛 feel confident that my n line would remain trouble free. i soon traded it in.
Interesting take and thanks for sharing your experience. Did Hyundai take care of you on the issue? It sounds like they did try to solve the issue by wanting to replace the whole transmission, or am I missing something?
But yeah, I of course agree with you on the 2.0t for now.

I'm going to wait for the Mid-Cycle Refresh on the TLX and hope for a touchscreen. I'll take the bloated equity in my Accord with low miles and get a TLX if they add a few horses and the touchscreen. A type-S Integra is also a real possibility, as much as I don't want a liftback.

If not, I'll be looking at Lexus if they ever update the powertrain in the IS, or a BMW/Audi with plenty of bumper to bumper warranty.
Yep, I鈥檓 much like you. That鈥檚 the plan for me now assuming my 2.0t operates flawlessly (and it has so far). The question is, what if backseat is a concern? I take that you don鈥檛 have any concerns about the smaller backseat with the TLX? I believe the IS is similar deal. Both are great cars though.

The Integra S doesn鈥檛 have the 10AT yet, so far only 6MT is confirmed, so I鈥檒l wait for that. It does have slightly bigger backseat if I鈥檓 not mistaken too.
The Camry is still available with the 3.5L V6... granted my guess is that will go away with the 2024 redesign (assuming that is when the Camry is redone. While I wouldn't call a Camry an "enthusiast" car by any stretch- the 3.5L V6 is certainly more engaging to drive than the base four or hybrid powertrains.

鈥︹
I really wonder what Toyota is going to do with the Camry's powertrain offerings when the current generation is replaced. The 3.5L V6 is almost certainly going to be dropped. Will Toyota offer the 2.5L turbo that seems to be the engine that's replacing the 3.5L V6 in other applications? Will they offer a higher performance hybrid option (A hybrid Max with 300ish HP?).

While I understand that sedan sales are down significantly over the past few years- I continue to believe that there's a decent demand for fun and engaging sedans that can be both practical and fun-to-drive. I really don't understand Honda's decision to drop the 2.0t engine option. The engine is still being used in other vehicles within the Honda/Acura lineup- so it's not like it would have cost them tons of money to keep as an option. The take-rate seems decent now that they've eliminated the slow-selling 2.0t EXL trim level. 2.0t Sport and 2.0t Touring models have always sold well... so I'm not sure why they eliminated it.
Yep, you鈥檙e right. The v6 is still available with the 23. I was somehow under the impression they鈥檒l have the refresh at the same time as the Accord. But it looks like they鈥檝e delayed it. So for sake of our discussion, let鈥檚 assume it鈥檒l get dropped in the redesign, which is most likely the case anyways. :D

I'm just hoping honda ends up announcing a Type R Accord lmao, probably never gonna happen but it's fun to dream 馃ゲ
Bro I wish the same. Not likely though.
2 reasons:
1) TLX Type S
2) Integra Type S

Although if pricing it accordingly and withholding certain features, it鈥檚 remotely possible. The question is, who鈥檚 willing to pay 45k for a decontented performance Honda when you can get a slightly smaller Acura, with similar performance and more features, for around the same price?
 

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04 coupe w/06-07 rear end-19鈥 TSW Sochi- Nighthawk Black, 2016 F-150 Sport 5.0 4x4 Blue Flame
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Personally, I don't like this direction that hondas going in. Dropping the 2.0t was a shot in their foot, but manufacturers never listen to the enthusiasts. Take the dropping of the J series from the accord for example. (Every day, we stray further and further away from God lmao).

I despise nissans for multiple reasons, some "simple" repairs tread into BMW/Mercedes territory in terms of difficulty (i.e. valve cover gaskets and other simple jobs on other vehicles), their CVTs are worth their weight in turds, "altima energy" is very much a real thing and their build quality is just meh. I think the new rogue looks hideous. And to top that, to get a half decent vehicle from them, theyre wayyyy overpriced, IMHO.

Hyundai and Kia are okay. My dad had an 04 kia sorento that had almost 200K on it when we scrapped it and it ran and drove, he just got a truck through work and we couldn't be bothered to. try and sell the thing. In four years of ownership, all we did was replace an alternator, PS pump and lines, and some other odds and ends. it needed tires, shocks, 4 corner brakes, and an exhaust leak repaired by the time we got rid of it. Aside from that though, the thing was pretty good and awesome in the snow with the selectable 4x4. My grandparents have a 2017 kia sorento thats given them little troubles, but now at 120,000KMs, the engine sounds like it's ready to drop out of it. Still starts, runs and drives, but that GDI is getting the best of it. My grandfather begs to differ, but Im not paying the repair bills, so I don't care. All they've done is brakes, tires, battery and oil spraying yearly. Kia and hyundai are a decent option to LEASE, but not to own long term, if that makes any sense. As they age they can get problematic as hell, from what Ive heard from some other owners. N line cars though, I have to hand it to them, are great bang for buck.

If i wanted to stay modest, Id probably go camry. If i wanted a sporty 4 door, Id probably go big and scoop up a cadillac ct4-v or ct4-v blackwing. Pricey, but they are definitley sharp looking and perform pretty good.
 

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Every Altima I've ever seen is almost always bashed up and weaving between lanes at twice the speed limit. Big Altima Energy is a real thing. That and Nissan's CVT is a hateful piece of machinery.

Hyundai, I just don't know. They've come so far in just a decade and I want to like them, but I don't know if I could do it beyond a cheap used one for a winter beater.

I'd recommend a Camry over either of them.
Current Altima CVT behaves just like a proper transmission, night and day differences. But all newly designed CVT now simulate shifts to defeat the whole point of being continuously variable, in order to tease the ricer and people who refuse to be familiar with something new for no reason. Nissan is the most extreme ones, current Altima even simulates shifts in lower engine speed, I can鈥檛 even tell it鈥檚 equipped with a CVT.
Regarding the car itself though鈥 I don鈥檛 enjoy driving it, the handling is boring for my taste, Accord and Altima are towards different people in my opinion.

I have no clue why Honda only offers 3 trim level on 11th gen, one 1.5T and two hybrid, that鈥檚 it. The 10th gen got 2 trims on Hybrid, many many trims on 1.5T and 2 trims on 2.0T, on top of that some trims still offer a manual transmission! For such a popular car model, how hard could it be to have a 2.0T trim added to the lineup?
 

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I'd buy a Nissan over a Hyundai any day of the week, even if it means dealing with a CVT.
Both my parents had Hyundai's at one point or another, and having worked on both I am not a fan. Not to mention the recalls.
My moms Elantra had hindrance of rod knock when cold at 88k miles, since she was second owner the Hyundai dealer told us to pound sand for a new short-block. On top of that, cruise control stopped working, bluetooth wouldn't work with her iPhone, squeaks/rattles, seat heaters worked when they wanted to, etc. I drove that car for a few months before I bought my 9G Accord. I couldn't get the damn seat comfortable. We sold it, bought a brand new '20 Sentra. Its remarkably quiet, rides nice, seats are comfy, and sound system is decent. The CVT behaves like a conventional automatic for the most part, especially under hard acceleration. Year and half later and its held up well thus far. She just hit 15k miles, so time for an oil change and I'm going to investigate doing the CVT fluid as well.
 
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