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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've read all the posts on the tsb's for the 08-09 I4 motors. And this doesn't sound like it's the VTC actuator.

It's a short grind on the first attempt to start. It's gone on the second attempt. It sounds like you weren't giving the key a firm twist, yet I am.

There is no rattle when running. And it doesn't do it every time. It did it two days in a row, then this morning, it didn't do it.

If there is a tsb for the 2010's, just point me in that direction, but everything I find is for the 08-09 motors. Can this be a starter issue and not a VTC Actuator?

Puzzled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ok. It seems there's a TSB for this. And it's NOT the VTC. Or at least the title implies it's not. Can anyone get this or tell me where I can find it? thanks

Automotive Recall and Technical Service Bulletin Titles for 2010 Honda Accord L4-2.4L

12-018 MAR 12 Starting System - Starter Motor Int. Grind In Cold Weather
 

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Yep. I have the same problem as you. It's an ugly grind noise and I'm just waiting for something to break one of these days since it happens every cold start.
 

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Yep. I have the same problem as you. It's an ugly grind noise and I'm just waiting for something to break one of these days since it happens every cold start.
Were I you, I wouldn't allow the grinding to continue waiting for something to break. I'm not familiar with the TSB mentioned above, but I'm going to guess the problem now involves just the starter and that the teeth on the starter's bendix aren't properly engaging the teeth on the flywheel. If I'm right and you allow the problem to continue, the clashing will eventually ruin the teeth on the flywheel too. Repairing that will require removing your car's transmission.

Let me anticipate your thinking: Why do you care if it's a warranty repair, right? You care because this is the sort of thing that shows up as "remove and replace flywheel" on a Carfax instead of just "R&R starter," leading potential buyers or vehicle appraisers to speculate about all sorts of other issues when you want to trade cars. You can avoid that possibility by getting the problem fixed now if, as you said, it happens on every cold start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I read the TSB. Basically it goes this way.....

Symptom: The starter motor intermittently grinds in cold weather (typically 45 deg F or colder)

Corrective Action: Replace starter

It's a warranty issue.

It affects:
2010 Accords L4 2DR & 4DR
2010 CRV 2wd & 4 wd
2010 Element 2wd & 4wd

My VIN is within the range noted, and I have the "certifed used car" extended warranty, so I guess I'm covered.

I'll probably wait until it gets colder in case I have to leave it at the dealer so they can "experience" it.


My 08 Civic does this sometimes, but it's out of warranty. :( But at least I know how to cure the problem.
 

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Were I you, I wouldn't allow the grinding to continue waiting for something to break. I'm not familiar with the TSB mentioned above, but I'm going to guess the problem now involves just the starter and that the teeth on the starter's bendix aren't properly engaging the teeth on the flywheel. If I'm right and you allow the problem to continue, the clashing will eventually ruin the teeth on the flywheel too. Repairing that will require removing your car's transmission.

Let me anticipate your thinking: Why do you care if it's a warranty repair, right? You care because this is the sort of thing that shows up as "remove and replace flywheel" on a Carfax instead of just "R&R starter," leading potential buyers or vehicle appraisers to speculate about all sorts of other issues when you want to trade cars. You can avoid that possibility by getting the problem fixed now if, as you said, it happens on every cold start.
Well I was waiting for someone to post the information about the TSB so I can see what the solution is for this problem. I've brought it up to my dealer and they stated they didn't have any TSBs regarding it and I'm completely way out of warranty for warranty repairs (bought car in Nov 07 and it's an 2008). I wished I had this covered under warranty but I guess I can try asking and see what other dealers are willing to do. I might contact American Honda but I'm not hoping for anything great. I don't even have the famous VTC actuator rattle and it's an early model 08!

The info posted above states that you simply replace the starter. Easy solution and something I can do. Is there anything else I should check for (damages, teeth chipping etc) while I'm in there?

Regarding selling/trading the car. I drive cars till they fall apart. Still have a 1987 Firebird with original engine and tran. :thmsup: Nonetheless, I appreciate your input and I'll actually put this on my list to do during winter break.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well I was waiting for someone to post the information about the TSB so I can see what the solution is for this problem. I've brought it up to my dealer and they stated they didn't have any TSBs regarding it and I'm completely way out of warranty for warranty repairs (bought car in Nov 07 and it's an 2008). I wished I had this covered under warranty but I guess I can try asking and see what other dealers are willing to do. I might contact American Honda but I'm not hoping for anything great. I don't even have the famous VTC actuator rattle and it's an early model 08!

The info posted above states that you simply replace the starter. Easy solution and something I can do. Is there anything else I should check for (damages, teeth chipping etc) while I'm in there?

The TSB only came out on March 2012. It also is only for 2010's. And yes, all it says to do is replace the starter.

I was hoping for someone to post the TSB also, but when no reply was forthcoming and all my deep internet searches came up with nothing, I bought a 1 year subscription on alldatadiy.com for the 2010 Accord and the 2008 Civic.

I was amazed to find out that you have to take off the intake manifold to replace the starter. Did they fire the engineer who came up with that one?
 

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The TSB only came out on March 2012. It also is only for 2010's. And yes, all it says to do is replace the starter.

I was hoping for someone to post the TSB also, but when no reply was forthcoming and all my deep internet searches came up with nothing, I bought a 1 year subscription on alldatadiy.com for the 2010 Accord and the 2008 Civic.

I was amazed to find out that you have to take off the intake manifold to replace the starter. Did they fire the engineer who came up with that one?
Really? The TSB only states 2010? That really sucks. I've had this noise ever since the early years of my car. It's really a hit or miss with the starter grind. Happens on somedays when a bird flies over and somedays when a bee flies over nothing happens. Temperature does seem to play a factor on how loud the grind is and I've ruled out the VTC rattle of hell.

But thanks for the input Henry, really appreciate it. Just going to hope for someone to provide the pdf or something. I might hit up a local dealer who printed out a tsb for me before.
 

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I have an 09 accord and I have the very same problem. Doesn't happen all the time but when it does it sounds terrible. Way out of warranty also, should I jus replace the starter to avoid future problems?


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Update

Leaving at the dealer tonight. They said I didn't have to leave it overnight, I just have to do that due to scheduling.

They were not impressed with my copy of the TSB. The guy said "where'd you get that, off the internet?" I said, yes, where else am I going to get it?

They said it didn't matter what I told them (gee thanks) they had to check the car anyway. He also told me it may be the VTC actuator. I told him I didn't hear that type of noise as my problem was before it starts, not after it starts. But that fell on deaf ears.

So they get it for a day. I will probably have to have the starter replaced myself as I'm sure they are going to tell me, "it doesn't have that problem". We shall see.

More in a few days....
 

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I went to my local dealer and looked up the TSB. The computer does state it only applies to 2010 and that it's the something with the clutch and the pinion being out of spec or something like that. Would it be safe that these parts have no contact or will destroy the teeth on the flywheel? If the problem lies on the starter itself without any other components being harmed, I might just leave it till the summer and go from there. It looks like a pretty tedious job taking off the intake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update #2

Well, much to my surprise, the cost was covered by my warranty. They noted the TSB on the bill. I usually don't have this kind of result. Starts are more firm and no noise can be heard as I did before. They kept the priced copy of the bill and gave me a copy with a $0.00. But I saw the priced copy and the job would have cost $336.

I mentioned another problem I had with the car, unrelated to the starter. They checked it out and said I would have to make another appointment, but that the repair would be covered by the warranty too. I feel like I won the lottery. :nuts:

As for others who wonder what to do. I would have paid to have it done if it wasn't covered. First: it's embarrassing when it does it. Second: it can't be good for the flywheel.
 

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I think you just identified the problem I've been having.. its a loud metal on metal grinding noise on cold start.. but completely random.

Glad to hear it might be the starter since mine is still covered under extended warranty. Mine is also manual.. what exactly did they fix on yours? Can you post up what they said on the repair invoice?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Remember this TSB only covers 2010 L4's within a certain VIN number range. But I'm not really sure if they "used the TSB" as a basis for the repair or just did it under my certified used car warranty.

Here's what the Repair ticket said:
Customer states there is a grinding noise when starting in cold weather. Started vehicle many times. Starter at times grinding. Found the service bulletin s/b 12-018. Removed and replaced starter. Rechecked, no more noise.

The tsb says this job should take 1.2 hrs. I couldn't find the right tools in 1.2 hrs! :lmao:
 
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