[audio.bill]

I like it at level 6, and I set it that way. I don't even know what levels 1-5 feel like. It may regenerate when you use the brake, I don't know. What I like is there is no need to touch the brake. You are converting the forward motion of the car back to electrical energy via the generator motor, and that slows the car, not the brakes. The brakes should last forever like that.

I saw a review video which said that you can lock it at your preferred setting by holding the paddle for a bit, and it will then maintain that regenerative setting between starts.

 

[MartyV6]

No, that is not the way I understand it. The regeneration is independent of the braking system. While you may be right that there is some regeneration when you use the brakes, you can use the regeneration mode without the brakes. Why do you get so touchy when someone disagrees with you.

Listen my friend

What you're saying is wrong. I mean yes, "you can use the regen" without touching the brake pedal. But that DOESN'T MEAN that when you press the brake pedal, you are somehow not using the regen in the same way. I don't know how many times to keep saying it, but the car uses plenty of regen if you drive it "normally" because when you press the brake pedal, it will use regen as much as it possibly can to slow the car BEFORE it uses any mechanical brakes. It is as if by pressing the brake pedal, the car is moving to your "level 6" in the same way.

 

[Scooter23]

You are correct Larry. The brake pedal in our hybrid accords are connected to a pushrod that inserts into the hydraulic master cylinder that is on the driver side of the firewall under the hood. There is a reservoir atop the master cylinder that holds the brake fluid. This system is known as the ‘service brakes’.
The regenerative braking system is actually fed and felt by the same electric drive motors that propel the car. When energized with electricity, these motors make the car go (like a drill motor, fan motor, etc). When you lift off the accelerator the flow of electricity ‘going to’ the drive motors cease, and while you coast the motors put out electricity as long as the front wheels are turning (like a belt driven air cooled Volkswagen generator) that is routed to the hybrid battery pack and stored until need to propel the car, or operate electrical accessories. It takes force to turn a generator motor (think power plant inside a dam on a river).
When power output from the hybrid motors, now turned into power generators, is increased (the six increasing load levels set by the left paddle, right paddle reduces the load) the car stops more aggressively until it gets down to around 7-8mph, when you have to apply the hydraulic service brakes if you want to come to a complete stop.
At regenerative braking level 4, the software activates the brake lights so that motorists behind you can see that you are slowing.
Just by lifting off of the accelerator pedal the default regenerative level is 2 unless you are in Sport mode and the little M is lit in which you can set the level of regen braking and have it stay put. In other drive modes, you can pull and hold the left paddle for 2 seconds to activate M(anual) regenerative mode, or pull and hold the right paddle for 2 secs to deactivate.
There is no ‘braking by wire’ on our cars when pushing the service brake pedal. It is hydraulic with regen blended in.

 

[Amkor]

OK, another dummy question:

When the green EV lights up, what does it really mean, that there's energy going to the battery (recharge), or is it also indicating the car's getting energy to move from the electric motor?

And in general, when accelerating from zero, does the Accord get its energy from BOTH the 4cyl engine and the electric motor? After all, a 2L engine is quite weak to accelerate alone a big car like the Accord, right?

 

[MartyV6]

You are correct Larry. The brake pedal in our hybrid accords are connected to a pushrod that inserts into the hydraulic master cylinder that is on the driver side of the firewall under the hood. There is a reservoir atop the master cylinder that holds the brake fluid. This system is known as the ‘service brakes’.
The regenerative braking system is actually fed and felt by the same electric drive motors that propel the car. When energized with electricity, these motors make the car go (like a drill motor, fan motor, etc). When you lift off the accelerator the flow of electricity ‘going to’ the drive motors cease, and while you coast the motors put out electricity as long as the front wheels are turning (like a belt driven air cooled Volkswagen generator) that is routed to the hybrid battery pack and stored until need to propel the car, or operate electrical accessories. It takes force to turn a generator motor (think power plant inside a dam on a river).
When power output from the hybrid motors, now turned into power generators, is increased (the six increasing load levels set by the left paddle, right paddle reduces the load) the car stops more aggressively until it gets down to around 7-8mph, when you have to apply the hydraulic service brakes if you want to come to a complete stop.
At regenerative braking level 4, the software activates the brake lights so that motorists behind you can see that you are slowing.
Just by lifting off of the accelerator pedal the default regenerative level is 2 unless you are in Sport mode and the little M is lit in which you can set the level of regen braking and have it stay put. In other drive modes, you can pull and hold the left paddle for 2 seconds to activate M(anual) regenerative mode, or pull and hold the right paddle for 2 secs to deactivate.
There is no ‘braking by wire’ on our cars when pushing the service brake pedal. It is hydraulic with regen blended in.

This doesn't make sense

When you depress the brake pedal from speed, why then does the % of regen braking increase? (lower left quadrant of the power dial) If you push harder on the brake pedal, the power recovery increases.

 

[MartyV6]

OK, another dummy question:

When the green EV lights up, what does it really mean, that there's energy going to the battery (recharge), or is it also indicating the car's getting energy to move from the electric motor?

And in general, when accelerating from zero, does the Accord get its energy from BOTH the 4cyl engine and the electric motor? After all, a 2L engine is quite weak to accelerate alone a big car like the Accord, right?

EV light means it is electric propulsion only AND THE ENGINE IS NOT RUNNING

You will hear that "waaaaaaaaa" sound if you are at low speed

When the engine kicks on that EV symbol goes out

If you are in EV and slowly accelerating then that is just the battery and electric motors. But many times the engine also runs. Most times the engine is just acting as a generator to feed more power to the electric motors. In a few ranges of speeds (mostly on highway at speed) the engine can "lock on" to the transmission via a clutch and then it is the engine directly driving the wheels.

There is a whole thread about this around here not long ago

 

[REBELhybrid]

I think you are wrong about that. The brakes have nothing to do with slowing the car. It's the resistance of the generator motor while it generates electricity that does the slowing of the car, not the brakes.

Who in the what now?

 

[Bimmer74]

What's interesting is there's no RPM gauge on the instrument cluster...

Right... The idea is that the speed of the gas engine (or even whether it's running at all) doesn't really matter.

When the green EV lights up, what does it really mean, that there's energy going to the battery (recharge), or is it also indicating the car's getting energy to move from the electric motor?

Like Marty said: the latter. The gas motor is NOT running in "EV" mode.

And in general, when accelerating from zero, does the Accord get its energy from BOTH the 4cyl engine and the electric motor? After all, a 2L engine is quite weak to accelerate alone a big car like the Accord, right?

I'm curious about this, too... I've read all about it, and I'm not stupid, and I'm a bit of a motorhead, and I stilllll don't understand.

Honda says that the car is either (1) in EV mode, or (2) running the gas motor to supply electricity, or (3) running the gas motor to turn the wheels.

However, the max "system" horsepower is 204, which is more than either the electric motor (181?) or the gas motor make on their own, so it seems to me that either the 204hp number is bogus, or there IS some situation in which the gas motor AND the electric motor are both turning the wheels.

The brakes have nothing to do with slowing the car. It's the resistance of the generator motor while it generates electricity that does the slowing of the car, not the brakes.

Why do you get so touchy when someone disagrees with you.

Larry, I value your input here, but when you make statements like the one above, which seem patently absurd (but admittedly kind of make sense in context), then you shouldn't be surprised when people argue with you...

 

[MartyV6]

This doesn't make sense

When you depress the brake pedal from speed, why then does the % of regen braking increase? (lower left quadrant of the power dial) If you push harder on the brake pedal, the power recovery increases.

So I was just out driving my EXL, and yes indeed it is as I said...in normal driving mode (ie not using the paddles to set a specific regen level 1-6) when you start braking, the "power generation" increases which means regen braking is happening. If you are going fast and brake with some force, it will peg the regen braking. Only when you start to get slow will you see that the power gen starts backing off and then when you are really slow it goes to zero, and so at that time the last little bit of bringing the car to a complete stop is handled by the mechanical brakes.

So whoever above claimed that this car just have mechanical brakes and the brake pedal isn't "brake by wire" must be wrong. When one is braking, if you let a little pressure off you will see the regen % go lower and if you brake harder then regen % will dial up, so the car computer is directly taking your brake pedal input and using it to manage the amount of regen braking.

So, no need to eff around with the paddles because you still get regen braking through normal driving, was my original point

 

[LouCjan]

...you will see the regen % go lower...

Where do you see "the regen %" on the display? I don't see it.

 

[LouCjan]

...So whoever above claimed that this car just have mechanical brakes and the brake pedal isn't "brake by wire" must be wrong. ..

I will not invent my own definitions of how the braking system works in this 4th generation Honda hybrid. Here is a quote from Honda's technical bulletin. I leave interpretations according to someone's personal beliefs.
"During braking or when coasting, the propulsion motor converts the kinetic energy of the decelerating vehicle into electrical energy to recharge the battery. The brake system seamlessly coordinates mechanical and regenerative braking with an electric-servo braking system for natural, linear, and responsive brake performance and pedal feel".

 

[MartyV6]

I will not invent my own definitions of how the braking system works in this 4th generation Honda hybrid. Here is a quote from Honda's technical bulletin. I leave interpretations according to someone's personal beliefs.
"During braking or when coasting, the propulsion motor converts the kinetic energy of the decelerating vehicle into electrical energy to recharge the battery. The brake system seamlessly coordinates mechanical and regenerative braking with an electric-servo braking system for natural, linear, and responsive brake performance and pedal feel".

Right, it isnt a basic mechanical linkage just to the master brake fluid cylinder

 

[MartyV6]

Where do you see "the regen %" on the display? I don't see it.

It is the lower left quadrant on the power meter (from like 6:00 to 10:00 position). At the 10:00 position it is basically at neutral, neither charging nor discharging. As you accelerate the power output rises and the needle moves clockwise. As you are Regen braking the needle moves counterclockwise down toward 6:00...the further down it is the more charging power is being created from the Regen

 

[Scooter23]

Interesting find from Honda, which clarifies the system.
I stand corrected!
I admit that I drive with the ‘minimal’ gauge displayed, and it wasn’t until driving today with the ‘round’ gauges that I see the regenerative braking meter, which happens to increase in % even when the service brake pedal is being applied without any paddle input.
Thank you for posting Honda’s description of the system.

 

[Bimmer74]

So, no need to eff around with the paddles because you still get regen braking through normal driving, was my original point.

Agreed, but some people are going to like the "one pedal" method, and as Honda points out, you can basically use the paddles to increase regen to slow the car on long downslopes (like downshifting in a normal car).

 

[LARRY70GS]

Larry, I value your input here, but when you make statements like the one above, which seem patently absurd (but admittedly kind of make sense in context), then you shouldn't be surprised when people argue with you...

So you insult me without telling me why you disagree with me. I'm just absurd?

What I am saying is you can use the Regenerative mode WITHOUT using the brakes to slow the car down. Pressing on the brake pedal engages the disc brakes and turns the forward energy of the car into heat generated by friction. The Regenerative mode uses the resistance of the generator to slow the car WITHOUT stepping on the brake pedal at all. And it provides charging of the Hybrid battery at the same time. That's a great feature. I have used it in several stop and go traffic jams, and I hardly needed to touch the brakes at all. I could control the speed of the car with just the accelerator pedal. It felt just like the Tesla I drove last year. They regenerate all the time, anytime you lift off the accelerator pedal, and it is quite dramatic. It takes some getting used to. Like I said, you can set the Regen mode to stay at level 6 until you take it out of Drive and put it into Park. I use it all the time. It's a Win Win for me, it saves the brakes, and charges the battery. Less energy lost in friction/heat.

How about some real world results. Yesterday, I drove from my home in Queens to Beaver Springs Pennsylvania. One way trip total was 271.6 miles. I had the Regen set to level 6 the entire way. Got stuck in a 12 minute 2 mile construction zone delay, and traffic was crawling. I hardly needed to touch the brake pedal in that delay, and on the off ramps from the highway. I used the Regen mode to slow the car instead of the brakes. Trip was 80% highway, and 20% on various county roads. I filled the tank before leaving for home. It took 5.54 gallons. That's 49 MPG. Car is rated at 46/41/44. And that's with the mileage killing 19" wheel tires. Hmmnn.

 

[Bimmer74]

The brakes have nothing to do with slowing the car.

Can you not see the absurdity in this statement? LOL...

 

[LARRY70GS]

I am not saying that NO regeneration occurs when you brake normally. I am saying that using it in permanent mode at whatever level you choose has real world benefits and uses, whether you choose to use them or not.

 

[LARRY70GS]

Can you not see the absurdity in this statement? LOL...

So you quote me completely out of context, and then want to get smug with me?

 

[LARRY70GS]

Listen my friend

What you're saying is wrong. I mean yes, "you can use the regen" without touching the brake pedal. But that DOESN'T MEAN that when you press the brake pedal, you are somehow not using the regen in the same way. I don't know how many times to keep saying it, but the car uses plenty of regen if you drive it "normally" because when you press the brake pedal, it will use regen as much as it possibly can to slow the car BEFORE it uses any mechanical brakes. It is as if by pressing the brake pedal, the car is moving to your "level 6" in the same way.

Listen my friend,
It's not the same, and you would know that if you just tried what I suggested. Like I said, there very well could be regen when braking normally, but it's no where near the level you get when using it independent of the brake. Try it, and judge for yourself, instead of being so sarcastic.