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premium fuel observation

20K views 88 replies 28 participants last post by  easymike 
#1 ·
First off I want to say I am NO WAY saying run it or it will run better.
I have a 2021 Sport1.5 with around 1400 mile and has pretty consistently got around 24 mpg ( I watch because it was rated at 27 but I do a lot of 10 mile trips ).
But after reading a few folks here saying they runs premium fuel I decided why not, after all I am filling my car up about every 2 or 3 weeks.

Well to my surprise it starting averaging 26 MPG the next day after that fill up. Yea I know its not science and no where near the price difference but thought that was interesting considering I drive on the conservative side 95% of the time.

Car drive the same to me but curious if anybody else have notice anything similar??

I will show my age, I won't get into how much gas was but it was 10 cents between grade. 87 $1.20 89 $1.30 93 $1.40 as an example. Not sure why they started this price gouging.
 
#2 ·
I will show my age, I won't get into how much gas was but it was 10 cents between grade. 87 $1.20 89 $1.30 93 $1.40 as an example. Not sure why they started this price gouging.
You will get lots of opinions about whether or not premium fuel has any benefits for the Accord. Some will say that they can definately notice a differance, others will say that you are throwing your money down the drain by using premium in an Accord. If you like using premium and think that it gets you better gas mileage and it's worth the extra costs, it certainly not going to hurt anything other than your wallet.

As for gas prices, they really aren't as high as everyone thinks that they are. In reality, gas prices just seem like they are really expensive and have gotten a lot higher due to the significant drop in prices that happened during the pandemic. If you use an inflation calculator and look up the nationwide averages over the past decade, you'd find that other than the huge drop in prices in 2020, gas prices have remained relatively consistent over the last decade when accounting for inflation.
 
#3 ·
You will get lots of opinions about whether or not premium fuel has any benefits for the Accord. Some will say that they can definately notice a differance, others will say that you are throwing your money down the drain by using premium in an Accord. If you like using premium and think that it gets you better gas mileage and it's worth the extra costs, it certainly not going to hurt anything other than your wallet.

As for gas prices, they really aren't as high as everyone thinks that they are. In reality, gas prices just seem like they are really expensive and have gotten a lot higher due to the significant drop in prices that happened during the pandemic. If you use an inflation calculator and look up the nationwide averages over the past decade, you'd find that other than the huge drop in prices in 2020, gas prices have remained relatively consistent over the last decade when accounting for inflation.
Not arguing over all cost but why premium went from being 20 cents a gallon more to being 60 cents a gallon more. I did buy gas a Costco a lot when I had the Mercedes that required premium, wasn't uncommon to save 30 and 40 cents a gallon.

As far as premium it me not worth the cost but I may try it on my next hwy trip in a couple weeks. Last time I noticed I was getting 37 driving 72 ish but when I got above 80 it dropped to 35. Still crazy good mileage for a car this big but wonder if the 93 will help. Just thinking out loud. :)
 
#4 ·
I posted my true fuel mileage over a year ago and someone disagreed. I know this is a forum.
Let me word this in a question. Among many other things, ignition timing has what effect on fuel mileage? What is the real purpose of "knock sensors"? See the picture?
It's all about tuning/timing AND not melting the aluminum pistons.
98% of the time I run 87 octane, ethanol free. Now getting 35.3 MPG. Last fill up was 10% ethanol 93 octane. 36.1 MPG. Same 33 mile route, between 45 and 65 mph.
I hate ethanol.
 
#55 · (Edited)
I posted my true fuel mileage over a year ago and someone disagreed. I know this is a forum.
Let me word this in a question. Among many other things, ignition timing has what effect on fuel mileage? What is the real purpose of "knock sensors"? See the picture?
It's all about tuning/timing AND not melting the aluminum pistons.
98% of the time I run 87 octane, ethanol free. Now getting 35.3 MPG. Last fill up was 10% ethanol 93 octane. 36.1 MPG. Same 33 mile route, between 45 and 65 mph.
I hate ethanol.
Where I live, (So flo) ethanol free gas costs more than premium.
To add to that, I would also confidently say that ethanol free fuel would render better results in HP and MPG's than 87 premium fuel would.
 
#8 ·
I have a 2021 Sport1.5 with around 1400 mile and has pretty consistently got around 24 mpg
Well to my surprise it starting averaging 26 MPG the next day after that fill up.
You're comparing apples...to walnuts.
A car "that consistently averages 24 MPG" as you say, has little to do with a car that shows 26 mpgs the day after you filled it.
You're using a one day comparison test to car that always gets 24 mpg... averaged over a period of time.
That mileage increase can easily be explained by YOUR driving habits, that day.
 
#12 ·
You're comparing apples...to walnuts.
A car "that consistently averages 24 MPG" as you say, has little to do with a car that shows 26 mpgs the day after you filled it.
You're using a one day comparison test to car that always gets 24 mpg... averaged over a period of time.
That mileage increase can easily be explained by YOUR driving habits, that day.
Maybe I should clarify it wasn't an hour later it was 2 days later after 3 or 4 short trips.
Just to prove me wrong please go fill your cars up with both and post results
 
#9 ·
I'm in agreement with the folks above who say you are throwing money away by using premium fuel in an Accord. The only difference between premium fuel and regular fuel is that premium fuel has anti-knock additives that actually make the fuel somewhat less volatile. Premium fuel is needed in an engine with higher compression than an Accord's engine because the increased compression can cause pre-ignition if regular gas is used. It is NOT "better" fuel, that is a "treat" for your engine.

As 2Accordz, said, your fuel economy the next day after filling the tank is meaningless. In fact, comparing the fuel economy over an entire tankful to your overall driving average is likewise relatively meaningless. Factors such as ambient air temperature, driving speed, wind resistance, elevation changes, and so on, ALL effect your fuel economy.

Don't put premium gas in a car that is designed to use regular.

- Jack
 
#17 ·
A tune will fix that :)
 
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#11 ·
I've only run a handful of tanks with 93 octane with no consistent difference in efficiency. orange points are gas price with 93 standing out above the series. blue are MPG calculated at the pump. I've circled the relevant data points to indicate tanks filled AFTER burning 93 octane (hence why the circled points above are off key from the ones below).
533303


For science, I may be willing to go through 5-6 consecutive tanks of 93, but the problem with that is it'll take 5-6 weeks to do it, after which we'll be heading into the winter fuel mix around October and that throws everything off
 
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#30 ·
if I didn’t know better I would think you guys have stock on 87 octane gas 😎 I just made an observation and even stated i stated I wasn’t suggesting it. Glad I gave y’all something to attack, have a blessed day.
No you didn't.
You made a statement and presented it as a fact.
An observation is: "Hey, did you ever notice the moon appears bigger at certain times of the year?"
You said " just to prove me wrong......"..

The other posters did.
My days are always blessed.
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
First off I want to say I am NO WAY saying run it or it will run better.
I have a 2021 Sport1.5 with around 1400 mile and has pretty consistently got around 24 mpg ( I watch because it was rated at 27 but I do a lot of 10 mile trips ).
But after reading a few folks here saying they runs premium fuel I decided why not, after all I am filling my car up about every 2 or 3 weeks.

Well to my surprise it starting averaging 26 MPG the next day after that fill up. Yea I know its not science and no where near the price difference but thought that was interesting considering I drive on the conservative side 95% of the time.

Car drive the same to me but curious if anybody else have notice anything similar??

I will show my age, I won't get into how much gas was but it was 10 cents between grade. 87 $1.20 89 $1.30 93 $1.40 as an example. Not sure why they started this price gouging.
Price gouging, lol. I run 87 (required) on my MDX where 93 (91 for 'em west coast) is recommended. I wouldn't spend the money for maybe 6 or 7 more ponies compared to the stock 87 octane tune. Running 87 for me, I still got 31+ MPGs on the J35. There's not that many benefits honestly for running a higher fuel rating if the vehicle can take a lower rating. Some people over at the MDX forums did a comparison between 87 and 93 and said there isn't much difference other than the amount of savings.
 
#24 ·
Ask your self why gas stations sell reg for maybe 10 cents a gallon more then a sams or Costco but premium is usually 40 cents higher. I think gas stations jack the price up to take advantage of the folks that think they need it and probably don’t even check pricing :)
All good I won’t burn premium for an extra 1 mpg just posting what I noticed
 
#26 ·
My point is if you’re concerned about mpg’s, why aren’t you in a HAH? Don’t change your driving habits, change your drive train!
 
#27 ·
I debated a hybrid and was told by several folks because most of my mileage is hey between Atlanta and South Carolina running 80 plus mpg the gas engine would probably do as good if not better.
Again I am not concerned with gas mileage just noted I thought that was interesting. I plan on going back to 87 and back to see if it follows the pattern. luckily I am remote 90% of the time so unless I am going to SC a tank last me 3 weeks :)
 
#28 ·
Initially: I could say I get good gas mileage if I use ACC a lot with 93 from Shell. If I used my foot I don't. The deal is that it may not be a horsepower gain, but it is a great deal more responsive and I end up going too fast (out of the efficiency zone) very easily.

Of course I tuned the car now, and get better gas mileage than ever. It's tuned to 93, but I regularly get upper 30s in MPG, I don't remember even getting to 30 at all without the tune and using 93. Does that make sense?
 
#34 ·
Most Honda's (and vehicles from other non luxury brands) are designed to run on any fuel with an octane rating of 87 or higher so it makes sense that you can't really tell a difference. The ECU makes sure of that.

That being said, I'm not convinced premium gas does nothing. I don't think it makes a difference 99% of the time for most drivers but that doesn't mean it doesn't or can't make any difference at all. The OM for my Pilot states that premium/91 is recommended when towing at high altitude, high temps or steep grades. It wouldn't say that if there wasn't a performance gain of some sort....

Additives and detergents are a whole 'nother thing. Premium fuels at least claim to use more detergents that can keep the engine cleaner but it's hard to quantify any performance or maintenance gains from that.

Use what's recommended and be happy. Use better than what's recommended and also be happy.
 
#35 ·
Premium fuels at least claim to use more detergents...
Supposedly Shell V-Power has 5x more detergents than their regular fuel, or maybe compared to a hand picked competitor. I do not remember where I saw this but I choose to believe it. Doesn't matter with DI motors though since our intake system gets no benefit from these detergents except for what recycles from the PCV system.
 
#40 ·
The people who actually took their car (2.0t from the videos I saw) to a dyno with different grades of gas actually saw a horsepower increase (though negligible) when using premium. So the "difference" is there but is it worth the extra money per gallon to see as few as 5-6 horsepower with a fairly identical powerband? I have a feeling most Accord drivers would say no, it's not worth the extra expense, just get me from A to B. But of course some of us will disagree. As some already stated, gas quality of the distributor is much much more of a factor than the octane level.
 
#41 ·
I have worked with product mangers on the technical side of things at Mazda, Honda and Toyota / Lexus and discussed this topic with them. In general modern engines use feed-back loops to self-tune adjusting for temperature, altitude, fuel grade, engine temp and other variables. One dynamic is ignition timing and any old hot-roder knows about tuning for the most advance you could safely run or re-curving distributors for even better effect. It is of particular note that modern engines have one or more knock sensors in the head which supports dynamically tuning ignition timing even at the cylinder level just as O2 sensors allow for dynamically tuning mixture. Premium car brands routinely specify premium fuel as it lets them make minor ECU changes and now we have more power but ignition timing auto advance is part of the secret sauce. Thus, the premium fuel helps create a result of more torque which makes the transmission work better etc (a big issue with Lexus drivability testing for example). All that said the difference with premium fuel alone is not that great but it is part of the way an Acura has more power with the same engine than an Accord. Honda likely makes 4-6 changes including premium fuel, higher flow air filters were one common change, a better muffler, and ECU changes; all things Honda has previously done in Honda vs Acura products.

Personal opinion - My 2.0t touring feels slightly better with Premium. On long trips I tend to use premium and anecdotally I seem to get a 1-2 mpg better mileage. My butt drives me out of the seat before the tank is empty and the extra cost is not recovered by 20 extra miles on a tank, still sometimes I select premium as a personal choice.
 
#43 ·
First off I want to say I am NO WAY saying run it or it will run better.
I have a 2021 Sport1.5 with around 1400 mile and has pretty consistently got around 24 mpg ( I watch because it was rated at 27 but I do a lot of 10 mile trips ).
But after reading a few folks here saying they runs premium fuel I decided why not, after all I am filling my car up about every 2 or 3 weeks.

Well to my surprise it starting averaging 26 MPG the next day after that fill up. Yea I know its not science and no where near the price difference but thought that was interesting considering I drive on the conservative side 95% of the time.

Car drive the same to me but curious if anybody else have notice anything similar??

I will show my age, I won't get into how much gas was but it was 10 cents between grade. 87 $1.20 89 $1.30 93 $1.40 as an example. Not sure why they started this price gouging.
Late to the discussion, but 1400 miles is not enough baseline history. Mileage is affected by a lot of things, including the weather, wind direction, whether you got whoopie this weekend, etc. I recently got really great mileage over a couple weeks because I worked 17 days straight: so nice slow drive to work with a quicker cruise home (where the beer is). But that's a good test, but not real world. Great mileage. (Warm/hot weather too which is always good for mileage).

You're quite correct that premium price will overwhelm the savings.

There are usually more additives as well in the higher grades, so better "value" for spending more than you need to.
 
#44 ·
If I ever burn this tank full I will see 😀. My trips and weather are probably scared predictable during covad. Short trips getting lunch or groceries.
What I am really curious on is a hwy trip running 80 since that’s probably pushing the motor more. But heck no it’s not work the price difference just testing
 
#45 ·
Summer of 2018, long road trip, speed 75MPH most of the time on the Interstates. I went over 900 km on one tank with a couple litres to spare. If I ever have to do a long work sched again, I'll drive slowly in both directions. Per the data (and I collect oodles) I can probably get over 1100 km on one tank with margin (in summer weather). (1.5L engine).[1]

A "benefit" at a speed like 80 MPH is the turbo waste gate is partially closed, so the exhaust is helping to pump air to the engine reducing pumping losses. The "boost" at this speed is almost equal to atmospheric. (Absent turbo it would usually be lower than atmospheric as the throttle would not be wide open).

[1] Sipping gas - I coulda been a contenda!
 
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#46 ·
Good info, my 2013 seemed to get better mileage at 80 then 65 :) luckily never had to try and explain that to a police man
My road trips are on open hwy and man lately people fly, too fast for me. Bad when your doing 83 and can’t ride in the left lane because your holding up cars
 
#54 ·
I just filled 17.822 gals of Costco's 93 octane this afternoon. My MDX and the J35 turned into a different animal. Definitely the type of fuel you use determines how playful the vehicle gets. Typically I use 87 since I commute alot.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
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#56 ·
Well about a month or so later, I have a few more tanks of 93 recorded. most are 87, 93 are circled green. 24 tanks of 87 from 2/13/2021 to 8/27/2021 show an average of 36.29mpg. 5 tanks of 93 scattered in throughout that range show an average of 36.33mpg. Essentially zero difference at 0.04mpg, but now that I'm actually going to alternate every 2 tanks, I'll be able to get more numbers. I'll probably try to keep this up until thanksgiving. I am only on person and I obviously know which fuel is in the tank, but my motivation is to get the best I possibly can because to me, the lifetime average is the most important thing.
Rectangle Slope Plot Line Font
 
#80 ·
Well about a month or so later, I have a few more tanks of 93 recorded. most are 87, 93 are circled green. 24 tanks of 87 from 2/13/2021 to 8/27/2021 show an average of 36.29mpg. 5 tanks of 93 scattered in throughout that range show an average of 36.33mpg. Essentially zero difference at 0.04mpg, but now that I'm actually going to alternate every 2 tanks, I'll be able to get more numbers. I'll probably try to keep this up until thanksgiving. I am only on person and I obviously know which fuel is in the tank, but my motivation is to get the best I possibly can because to me, the lifetime average is the most important thing.
View attachment 534170
Is that non-ethanol 93 or standard 10% ethanol at 93? From what I've read, 10% ethanol mix doesn't do well if exposed to water (condensation in the gas tank, and it separating lowers the octane rating as well. Not by much since it's just a bunch of droplets and not a cup of water...) There's also a risk of corrosion of ethanol sits in a tank for a very long time and never gets used, or is that a myth?

It sounds like there's a nominal performance boost but, overall, not massive increase in MPG. (I have a 2021 Accord Touring, do 80% highway, and net 38 to 40.2MPG with standard E10 gasoline.)

Thanks!
 
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