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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I did a little fun research for more hypermiling for myself and decided to share on here.

This is strictly referring to the base model 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid and how to get the most miles in city driving.

I like to hypermile in city driving. I enjoy seeing above 50mpg and some times above 60mpg, when I put my mind to it.

So, I was thinking that since I do hypermile and get good mpg above Honda's EPA, I decided to find out why the 2020 Camry Hybrid base and 2020 Sonata Hybrid base are rated more and what makes them get more mpg. Then I found what I think is the reason. The tires!

The tire SIZE (tall and slim) and tire WEIGHT (weighs less).




The base model Camry and Sonata tires are the same size 205/65R16 and each weighs 20lbs each. The base Accord tire is 225/50R17 and weighs 23lbs each. So, for my replacement tire, I am planning to go with a 215/55R17 tire which weighs 20lbs per tire or less. That will be a slightly skinny and taller tire so I can get the Camry and Sonata mpg.

Look at the comparison charts I put together.

2020 Accord 225/50R17 vs 2020 Camry or Sonata 205/65R16


2020 Accord 225/50R17 VS replacement tire for Accord 215/55R17


Now, let us say I replaced my tires with the new size and compare now to the 2020 Camry or Sonata
2020 Accord 215/55R17 VS 2020 Camry or Sonata 205/65R16


215/55R17 has been a OEM size for a few Honda Accord models years like the non-hybrid 2017 Honda Accord EX and EX-L. So, it a tire that will fit and work well if I put it on my 2020 Honda Accord.

These are my 2 choices that I have in my mind now for replacement of my current tire. Well, I still have like 20,000 more miles to go before I need a new set of tires, but if I feel like I really want to do this sooner, I will go ahead and do it any time I want to and not wait for my current tires to need replacement.

My first choice weighs only 18lbs while the second choice weighs 20lbs. Both tires are rated for a maximum psi of 51psi. Because of that, I will run the tire strictly on 40psi, instead of oem 33psi.

My First Choice; 215/55R17 Goodyear Assurance A/S 94H
This is a H (130mph) speed rated tire instead of the V (149mph) rated that comes on the 2020 HAH base. We know we are never going to be driving above 110 mph with the Honda Accord base, so why does Honda give us a 149mph V rated speed tire for our HAH which cannot go above 115mph?



My Second Choice; 215/55R17 Michelin Energy Saver 94H



This is my mpg as of this morning when I got to work. So, I do enjoy hypermiling and it is nice to see the Accord doing 61.4mpg so far after 537 miles. So, my goal is to set up my car where I can hypermile more and get more mileage, if it is possible.


But when it comes to highway driving on a road trip, I do not do any hypermiling. I enjoy my car with some very spirited driving.
 

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I did a little fun research for more hypermiling for myself and decided to share on here.

This is strictly referring to the base model 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid and how to get the most miles in city driving.

I like to hypermile in city driving. I enjoy seeing above 50mpg and some times above 60mpg, when I put my mind to it.

So, I was thinking that since I do hypermile and get good mpg above Honda's EPA, I decided to find out why the 2020 Camry Hybrid base and 2020 Sonata Hybrid base are rated more and what makes them get more mpg. Then I found what I think is the reason. The tires!
More important: The Wheels!

Larger wheels have a higher moment of inertia, requiring more energy to change their speeds. But even more important, aerodynamic drag increases substantially. You'd be far better off keeping your 225/50R17s and getting some wheel covers.

You also won't compromise handling, or fool yourself into thinking you've traveled 2% more miles due to changing the tire's circumference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
More important: The Wheels!

Larger wheels have a higher moment of inertia, requiring more energy to change their speeds. But even more important, aerodynamic drag increases substantially. You'd be far better off keeping your 225/50R17s and getting some wheel covers.

You also won't compromise handling, or fool yourself into thinking you've traveled 2% more miles due to changing the tire's circumference.
Lol, you know I cannot change the wheels or put wheel covers on my stock wheels. The only thing I would like to change would be the tires. And since Honda has used 215/55R17 before as oem on some Honda Accords, I feel it would be a good place to start with.

I really wish I could get the new tres with my next oil change which will be mixing 2 quarts of 0W16 (better fuel economy) Toyota Oil and 2 quarts of 0W20 Castrol High Mileage. And then I will run the 215/55R17 tires at 40psi since they are rated for a maximum psi of 51psi. I currently run my oem tires at 36psi, instead of 33psi. Never had a problem. But if I buy these new tires, I will definitely run them at 40psi.

This is the mixture I plan to use for my next oil change; 2 quarts 0W16 Toyota oil and 2 quarts 0W20 Castrol High mileage oil.
 

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First, look on tire rack and check the actual contact patch width between the tires. The tread width on the Goodyears are 6in, the Michelins are 7.1in.

If you drive in the city a lot, a nice set of forged wheels or even light weight flow formed wheels can make a pretty big difference.

Also, I was always told to not mix oil between brands. Toyota oil is made by Exxon-Mobil, mixing it with Castrol seems risky. Also, why the high mileage oil with the Castrol? Your car is almost new, there's no need for all the extra seal swelling additive.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
First, look on tire rack and check the actual contact patch width between the tires. The tread width on the Goodyears are 6in, the Michelins are 7.1in.

If you drive in the city a lot, a nice set of forged wheels or even light weight flow formed wheels can make a pretty big difference.

Also, I was always told to not mix oil between brands. Toyota oil is made by Exxon-Mobil, mixing it with Castrol seems risky. Also, why the high mileage oil with the Castrol? Your car is almost new, there's no need for all the extra seal swelling additive.
Thanks a lot for the info about tread width. I totally was not paying attention to it. But based on the info you provided, I see oem Camry stock tire has 6.6' tread width. So, if I was to choose between the 6' Goodyear and the 7.1' Michelin, I would choose the 6' tread width Goodyear tires. That is my first choice especially as it shows it weighs only 18lbs per tire.

Ideally, I wish to keep my car as stock as possible for a very long time, just like I kept my Maxima for 12 years from brand new till 268,600 miles when it died. The plan with my Accord is to hopefully own it forever and always have that car at home that is so cheap to maintain and great on gas that some people keep forever around. So, I will not like to change the stock wheels. I will just change the tire size since the size I am looking at has at one point in time been oem size for the Honda Accord.

Whoever told you not to mix oil is correct. But I do not mind mixing oil though I rarely do it. I promise you, I have done it many times to the cars I have owned over the years and nothing has ever happened to my engine. I cannot say about another person's experience. I am meticulous about my cars and I do pay great attention to them and actively take care of them, so I maintain them to the best of my abilities. Trust me. I have testimony of owning my 2008 Nissan Maxima from brand new up to 12 years later and 268,600 miles. From day 1, I drove that car hard and fast, till the last day when it died. I was meticulous in maintaining that car and that is exactly the same thing I will do with this Accord. I mixed oils in that Maxima when I had to and in my other cars I have owned. I never had a single problem. My 2008 Maxima has been my most reliable car and the longest I have ever owned a car till date.

My Accord is still new. It just turned 1 year and I put 34,000 miles on it for the first year and I plan to maintain it really well so it can be reliable to me. I have driven this Accord out of the country many times (Mexico and Canada) and I go some extremely long distances, so trust me when I say I maintain my car well enough so it does not leave me stranded anywhere. I am using the High Mileage oil because I am preparing my car for its super high mileage that is coming soon, since my cars always get a lot of miles as I travel a lot.

To be honest, mixing the 0W16 Toyota oil with the 0W20 Castrol High Mileage oil, I do ot know what will happen, but I am certain I am not going to lose an engine. When I decide to put the mixture in my car, I will post pictures for sure.
 

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Has anyone replaced the stock 225/50R17s with 215/55/R17s on the stock Hybrid wheels? What differences have you noticed -- other than new tires of course? I would think that comfort/road noise would improve slightly, as well as snow traction, but dry handling would suffer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Has anyone replaced the stock 225/50R17s with 215/55/R17s on the stock Hybrid wheels? What differences have you noticed -- other than new tires of course? I would think that comfort/road noise would improve slightly, as well as snow traction, but dry handling would suffer.
I do not know if anybody has replaced the oem 225/50R17 with 215/55R17.

You are correct. I also believe there would be a slight improvement in comfort/road noise and snow traction. I do not know if handling would suffer much for me to notice or miss since this is a Hybrid which means most buyers buy it for cruising to safe gas and not mainly for performance or handling.

Since this size used to be oem for some Honda Accords like 2017 and 2016, I hope it will be very ok overall. Besides, if I do install this 215/55R17, I will be running it at 40psi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I went to Costco today to compare side by side a 225/50R17 to a 215/55R17 tire. The tires are truly very close to each other. Very little difference in size.

So, in my personal quest for better mpg during hypermiling, I have decided my replacement tire would be a 215/55R17.


 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I have made up my mind and my next tire will be a 215/55R17. I have decided this is the tire I will buy; Continental Control Contact Tour A/S Plus with Eco Technology for better fuel economy which means it should help with saving fuel. It weighs 21lbs and max psi is 51psi. I plan to run it at 40psi, whenever I buy this tire.

My current tire has 36,000 miles on it. I still have to check the tread to see where I am right now. I may change the tire sometime between 40,000 and 50,000 miles and sell it for like $100. I always like my tires to always have tread above 4/32" since I hate to drive on tires that are almost used up. Infact, my best time to change my tires is when any 2 of them are reading 4/32". I enjoy spirited driving on most of my road trips and I need tires that are always top notch with good tread, hence I change my tires when it gets to 4/32"



I will run my new (215/55R17) tire at 40psi. At same time, I will change my oil and use 2 quarts 0W16 mixed with 2 quarts 0W20.

I am hoping to experiment with this and see if it has any impact in increasing my mpg when I am hypermiling in the city. I will see if it can improve some of the very good figures I am already getting when I hypermile in the city.


 

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Certainly I am interested to hear how the 215/55/17s work out. If there is even a slight benefit with lower road noise, that would be most welcome.

Just took a 1700 mile road trip (Boise -- Denver and back) and was really pleased with how the HAH handled the road cruising duties. Plenty of smooth power, even navigating through the Rockies along I-70. So easy to drive even at speeds approaching 100mph. Overall mileage is 40.7 which is not bad for 90% highway over 75mph. Glad I chose this HAH over the Camry/Avalon hybrid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Certainly I am interested to hear how the 215/55/17s work out. If there is even a slight benefit with lower road noise, that would be most welcome.
Glad I chose this HAH over the Camry/Avalon hybrid.
215/55R17 is oem size for 2017 Honda accord EX & EX-L, 2020 Toyota Avalon Hybrid, 2020 Toyota Camry LE (non hybrid), 2020 Hyundai Sonata Limited Hybrid, 2020 Nissan Altima SL.

I am really set on getting this tire size. Too bad I am only at 36,200 miles right now on odometer and on my oem tires. Ideally, I would like to swap my oem tires only after 50,000 miles on odometer. So, I guess I still have about 6 months of use with my oem tires. But whenever I do install the new tires, I promise I will post pictures and share my review. I plan to run the tires at 38psi or 40psi.

I especially wanted to install the new tires at same time I am doing my oil change mixture of 2 quarts 0W16 and 2 quarts 0W20. But I may instead do a mixture of 3 quarts 0W16 and 1 quart of 0W20.

The oil in my car currently is a mixture of 0W20/5W20/5W30. I was using it to basically rinse my engine. I have put almost 2,000 miles on the mixture and still getting over 60mpg with hypermiling.

This weekend, I have a 500 miles roundtrip weekend getaway. When I come back, I plan to change this oil someday next week and install either of these 2 mixtures...2 quarts 0W16 mixed with 2 quarts 0W20 OR I use 3 quarts 0W16 mixed with 1 quart 0W20.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Does going from a 225/50R17 to a 215/55R17 tire raise any safety concerns?
Oh no. Not at all. There is no safety concern at all when I will go to that size. It is practically almost the same tire with very minimal difference. So, my car would ride practically the same and may improve my mpg number.

Besides, that is the oem size for the 2017 Honda Accord EX & EX-L. So, it is not a strange size for a Honda Accord.

It is also the oem size for the following cars; 2020 Toyota Avalon Hybrid, 2020 Toyota Camry LE (non hybrid), 2020 Hyundai Sonata Limited Hybrid, 2020 Nissan Altima SL.

Changing from 225/50R17 to 215/55R17 is what people would not be interested in doing. But for me, I want to do all I think I can that is still within oem specs that would help give me the most hypermiling MPG I can get from this car.

To achieve that, this is what I have planned to do to my car to hopefully achieve that goal.

  • Change my tires from 225/55R17 to 215/50R17. A lighter, slimmer and taller tire. I am already set on getting the Continental Control Contact Tour A/S Plus after I put over 50,000 miles on my current oem tires
  • The maximum psi of the Continental tire is 51psi and I will be running my tires at 40psi. Why? Because with time psi does drop slightly and I want to always maintain my psi higher than oem 33psi.
  • As from next week, I will start doing my oil change with a mixture of 2 quarts of 0W16 and 2 quarts of 0W20. And may someday do 4 quarts of 0W16.

I will do the 3 things above and see if I can do better than the current over 60mpg I am getting when I hypermile in the city. Because I do not hypermile on most of my road trips which I do take many of them. Most often on my road trips, my drives are very spirited and I enjoy my Accord. But when I get to any city I am visiting, I love to hypermile most of the time.

Here is my odometer as of this morning. You see how I am getting over 60mpg with hypermiling. My psi is set at 36psi. The oil in my car is a mixture of 3 oils; 0W20/5W20/5W30. My car cannot tell anything. It is still driving great and giving me great mpg. Next week, I change that oil to a mixture of 0W16/0W20.

 

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The mpg figures are mostly benefited from Michelin’s Energy Saver tires. Don’t go with other brands or models, otherwise your mpg would just drop.

I bought Continental PureContact LS 225/45/R18 (also claimed to have EcoPlus) with aftermarket 18” wheels. Same width, right? That week my mpg dropped by 10 even for pure city driving. Later I replaced them with 235/45R18 because the former tire only has 91 load index. Guess what? No difference between 235 and 225.

Therefore, I highly doubt if decreasing tire width by 10mm would help your mpg figures, but choosing any tire other than Michelin energy saver will 100% decrease your mpg by 10, to say the least.

The downside of high-profile tire is also vivid. I have been enjoying the much improved cornering support from both 225/45/R18 and 235/45R18 tires. They also make highway lane change a swift compared to OEM 225/50/R17 which just feels uncertain and risky. Now if you go 215 with higher profile, no doubt the handling is adversely impacted, as well as braking distance.

While Michelin Energy Saver does give fancy mpg figures, I doubt if it compromises too much for traction, and its higher price makes up some fuel saving $$ in the life time too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I bought Continental PureContact LS 225/45/R18 (also claimed to have EcoPlus) with aftermarket 18” wheels. Same width, right? That week my mpg dropped by 10 even for pure city driving. Later I replaced them with 235/45R18 because the former tire only has 91 load index. Guess what? No difference between 235 and 225.

Thanks for that informative post. Good thing I have done some extensive personal research and I quickly noticed some things about your setup that my own setup is set to avoid so I can maintain my above 60mpg when hypermiling or hopefully improve it by a slight bit.

The most important thing about my setup is all about saving weight (lighter wheels and tire) and reducing drag (skinny and taller tires than wider tires). And using higher psi in my tires than oem of 33.

Let me point out some things about your setup that I am already set to avoid that I easily spotted on your setup that might be causing you to drop the 10mpg instantly.

(1) You have aftermarket wheels. How much do they weigh? My random guess is they weigh more than the stock oem 17 inch wheels which weight 27.46lbs each and are constructed to reduce drag. So, maybe your 18 inch aftermarket looks fancy and not built like oem 17" to glide through air.

(2) Your first tire; 225/45R18 Continental is 22lbs. That weighs less than oem tire size which weighs 23lbs. But you paired it with aftermarket wheels and now maybe the weight of your wheel and tire makes it heavier than stock. Hence your drop in mpg.

(3) Your second tire; 235/45R18 Continental is 26lbs. That is heavier and now wider than stock which is only 23lbs and 225 wide. You paired it with heavy 18" wheels. Hence guaranteed drop in mpg.

(4) Last but not the least, I wonder what psi you are running. I am currently running 36psi all around with stock tires. When I buy my new tires 215/55R17, I will run them at 38psi or 40psi.

So, let me tell you what differentiates my future setup with yours.

My wheels weigh 27.46. What is yours?
My tires size is 215/55R17. Yours is 235/45R18.
My tire weighs 22lbs. Yours weigh 26lbs.
My psi is set at 40psi. Yours?

So, if you input your own figures, as long as yours weighs more than mine, then I can personally conclude I see why you will lose mpg.

Also, I plan to run my setup with an oil change of 2 quarts 0W16 and 2 quarts 0W20. Someday, I MIGHT try running straight 0W16. We shall see. Maybe the lighter oil too may help in all of this to maintain or improve my 60mpg when hypermiling.
 

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(1) You have aftermarket wheels. How much do they weigh? My random guess is they weigh more than the stock oem 17 inch wheels which weight 27.46lbs each and are constructed to reduce drag. So, maybe your 18 inch aftermarket looks fancy and not built like oem 17" to glide through air.
They weigh 25 lb each, lighter than OEM wheels.

Are the shape of wheels really important? I wouldn't agree. Someone did experiments with Tesla aero wheels, but the results are not significant at all, and didn't support the argument that aero-designed wheels help more on higher speeds.

Besides...I already said that's city mileage, so the major difference is only tire compound.

If you want to compare highway mileage, I also have some figures for your reference. Doing 80-85 mph on mountainous highway, OEM setup gives 33-35 mpg, my 18" aftermarket setup gives 30~33 mpg. The difference is actually smaller because at higher speed drag resistance (which is mostly determined by a vehicle's overall shape in the flow, specifically the frontside projected area and the rear shape that flattens out low-pressure zone) accounts for more %.

I just swapped to another set of 18" flow-forming wheels which only weigh 20 lb each. My new wheels are also 5mm inward so it should bring less drag. But again, I see no difference vs the 25lb wheels. Therefore, I do believe that wheel shape and wheel/tire weight are just negligible factors unless you go extreme.

(4) Last but not the least, I wonder what psi you are running. I am currently running 36psi all around with stock tires. When I buy my new tires 215/55R17, I will run them at 38psi or 40psi.
I set front 35 psi and rear 33 psi for the balance between highway cruise and handling.

I honestly don't know whether running higher psi is worth it. You risk having longer brake distance in emergency situations, and your tires risk uneven worn out...

2 quarts 0W16 and 2 quarts 0W20. Someday, I MIGHT try running straight 0W16.
Since our hybrid powertrain is covered under an extremely long warranty period, I would never consider changing the oil viscosity and compromising high rpm protection. I do find it necessary to floor it at 6200 rpm from time to time.

There are options like Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy full synthetic. I had good experience with it before, although I switched to Costco branded full synthetic just because it's more than 50% cheaper...
 

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I'd say you could trade in your Accord hybrid for Insight hybrid :D lighter, smaller, with 1.5L engine.

My friend has Insight hybrid, and he easily does 55 mpg without taking any cautions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
They weigh 25 lb each, lighter than OEM wheels.

Are the shape of wheels really important? I wouldn't agree. Someone did experiments with Tesla aero wheels, but the results are not significant at all, and didn't support the argument that aero-designed wheels help more on higher speeds.

I set front 35 psi and rear 33 psi for the balance between highway cruise and handling.

I honestly don't know whether running higher psi is worth it. You risk having longer brake distance in emergency situations, and your tires risk uneven worn out...
I just looked at that study and learned TWO VERY IMPORTANT THINGS I never knew. We have to agree to disagree on these 2 little things.

(1) The test DOES prove the aero wheels are better than regular wheels in normal driving and highway speeds of 70mph. The test concludes that the results does not sound like a big difference to the regular person, but it means a lot in the automotive world.

(2) The next and very interesting thing I learned from that test is that Tesla has it on the door jam for owners to run their cars at 42psi! The tire has a maximum psi of 51psi.

This means a lot to me now! I am very happy to have found something like that.

That goes to show some people who are worried about higher psi that their tires will wear unevenly.

Go on the internet and Google 2019 Model 3 psi. You will see. I even Google and went to a forum link and the guys are running 42psi all around or 45psi all around on a tire that has maximum 51psi! Remember these cars are not priced like the Honda Accords we drive. And you will not tell me the Tesla engineers do not know what they are talking about recommending owners to run their cars at 42psi where the tire's maximum psi is 51psi. Those tires wear out evenly.

If your tires do not wear out evenly, that person has to check for other problems like the common under inflation, not balancing and rotating your tires and not doing an alignment on your car. People ignore those things and go and blame the tires first but fail to realize they may have been riding on under inflated tires and never knew.

So, know that the difference here is small, but in the automotive world, it means a lot.
  • Aero wheels are better than regular wheels in saving gas and giving extra mpg
  • Higher psi is good for someone who is interested in saving gas and getting slightly better mpg. Hypermilers have proven that. Tesla also shows that. Something I never knew until today. Tesla recommends a very high psi of 42psi for a tire with maximum psi of 51psi. So, I have no fear now when I get my next set of tires that has maximum psi of 51psi and I run it at 40psi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'd say you could trade in your Accord hybrid for Insight hybrid :D lighter, smaller, with 1.5L engine.

My friend has Insight hybrid, and he easily does 55 mpg without taking any cautions.
Lol, I do not wish to own a Honda Insight. I prefer my Accord and will hypermile with this Accord.

You see how you pointed me to a test. I have also visited some hypermiling forums and seen some people doing some tests of their own and then coming out with a conclusion that is positive or negative.

I have developed an interest in hypermiling and so I want to conduct my own personal test. So, that is what I am doing and will share the results at the end of my test to say if I achieved any gains in mpg or not.

Remember the improvement can be small but be worth it to me, though it may not be worth it to others, that is why this is my own personal test.

Everything I am doing is to see if I do certain things to my car, will it improve my hypermiling mpg in city driving? My test is for city driving only. Since for highway driving on my road trips, I most often drive very spirited and do not look at my mileage at all because at that point I want to enjoy my Accord. But many times on my road trips also, I just enjoy cruising with traffic as I love to stop at random isolated stretches of road to take in fresh air and enjoy nature.

So, for this test I need these conditions to be met by my car;
  • I need my new set of 215/55R17 tires
  • Set psi at 40psi
  • Oil change should be 2 quarts of 0W16 and 2 quarts of 0W20. Or if I get bold enough, I will do 4 quarts of 0W16.

I want to meet those 3 conditions and see if my car's mpg will improve during while hypermiling in city driving where my top speed will be 60mph and top posted speed is 60mph, which is the speed limit on my way to work and most of the highways very close to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
The oil in my car is currently a mixture of 2 quarts of 0W16 mixed with 2 quarts of 0W20. My tires are set at 36psi. Car feels, sounds and drives normal so far.

I am hypermiling. I just got back from work today. After 2 days since I did my oil change, I am averaging 64mpg after 131 miles so far on this tank of gas.

I will drive this whole tank of gas until DTE turns to 0 and see what my mpg is at the end of this run. I will post odometer at the end of this tank of gas.

 
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