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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is the suspension design for the 9th Gen compared to my BMW E46. Does the 9G Accord have "control arms" on the front suspension? Will it need replacement bushings?
 

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front suspension is exceptional for the masses in terms of reliability.

all suspensions have control arms, but the shock design and amount of arms differs.

this gen uses a macpherson strut eliminating the upper arm. it only has a lower arm with bushings in a design that will rarely if ever wear out prematurely from normal use. this is a brand new front suspension design for the 2013 accord.

there rear suspension uses a rear upper arm with a ball joint and multi link independent - a very NICE suspension. the ball joint will rarely if ever wear out in normal usage. this rear suspension has been in use since the 2008 accord.
 

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^^ from wiki! j/k :D


seriously, he's a mechanic-- believe what he says. :salue:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
front suspension is exceptional for the masses in terms of reliability.

all suspensions have control arms, but the shock design and amount of arms differs.

this gen uses a macpherson strut eliminating the upper arm. it only has a lower arm with bushings in a design that will rarely if ever wear out prematurely from normal use. this is a brand new front suspension design for the 2013 accord.

there rear suspension uses a rear upper arm with a ball joint and multi link independent - a very NICE suspension. the ball joint will rarely if ever wear out in normal usage. this rear suspension has been in use since the 2008 accord.
Thanks - very informative. Much more informative that "urgh, go to Honda.com" by the way :D

To Mr. Urgh....my question was to understand how this suspension will wear in practice. On my BMW I needed to replace control arm bushings after only 35 or 40k miles. Which really meant I needed to replace the whole arms since it is a pain for people to press the bushings, so they just do the whole arms. Like $2000 I think. I'm not sure Honda.com would have told me how this suspension wears in real life vs. other designs. But, urgh night to you too!
 

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Thanks - very informative. Much more informative that "urgh, go to Honda.com" by the way :D

But, urgh night to you too!
He got owned!:lmao:
 

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Thanks - very informative. Much more informative that "urgh, go to Honda.com" by the way :D

To Mr. Urgh....my question was to understand how this suspension will wear in practice. On my BMW I needed to replace control arm bushings after only 35 or 40k miles. Which really meant I needed to replace the whole arms since it is a pain for people to press the bushings, so they just do the whole arms. Like $2000 I think. I'm not sure Honda.com would have told me how this suspension wears in real life vs. other designs. But, urgh night to you too!
$2000 after 35-45k omg haha this is why I didn't buy a luxury car. I had the option to buy a new or used car with a $30k budget. I'm glad I chose a Accord hahah
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
$2000 after 35-45k omg haha this is why I didn't buy a luxury car. I had the option to buy a new or used car with a $30k budget. I'm glad I chose a Accord hahah
I keep a spreadsheet and I've paid about 14,500 in parts and labor on my BMW in the 11 years I've owned it. This doesn't include a few things that were done in the warranty period. It's an excellent car to drive, and it hasn't been a real nightmare in breakdowns or anything, but all the stuff adds up. I just can't do another BMW this time I don't think, as much as I enjoy driving them.
 

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I keep a spreadsheet and I've paid about 14,500 in parts and labor on my BMW in the 11 years I've owned it. This doesn't include a few things that were done in the warranty period. It's an excellent car to drive, and it hasn't been a real nightmare in breakdowns or anything, but all the stuff adds up. I just can't do another BMW this time I don't think, as much as I enjoy driving them.
wow, you need a spreadsheet to keep track of BMW repair costs! i can do the costs in my head for my 01 Maxima (<$1500 including maintenance items in 12+ years).
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
wow, you need a spreadsheet to keep track of BMW repair costs! i can do the costs in my head for my 01 Maxima (<$1500 including maintenance items in 12+ years).
I don't need it but I decided to pull out my folder of shop receipts and log everything....as I was starting to do some DIY stuff I wanted to keep better track of oil change, brake flush, etc. Was also interested to see how much stuff had been done. Like I said, it's not like the car was totally breaking down on me all the time, but BMWs seem to get a lot of stuff that needs "attention" like new bushings, lots of leaky sh&t in the engine bay (power steering hoses replaced, lots of oil gaskets and hoses replaced cause they start to leak, leaking/cracked CV boots, broken power window regulators (horrible design on BMWs), cooling system leaking, both rear springs ultimately just broke and needed replacing, etc. Then you add in normal stuff like brake pads and rotors and oil changes. The parts arent cheap, and add in labor at book rates and it seems pretty much every little thing costs $300-400 for a "single problem" and then when I'd have multiple problems it would be $1250-2000 out of my hide.

I have kept it going now given the logic (which I think is sound) that buying a new car means I will have at least $2000 PER YEAR in depreciation, so if I am spending $1000 a year on average to maintain the BMW, I'm still fine. I refuse to look at the "car is only worth $5000...how can you spend $2000 fixing it?" logic which I believe is NOT the correct way to see things. So why am I now enamored with the Accord when that goes against my logic? Because at some point I gotta cut ties with the BMW, plus now that our kids are growing, it might be nice to have a slightly roomier car (although we generally use our Odyssey for family hauling).
 

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I keep a spreadsheet and I've paid about 14,500 in parts and labor on my BMW in the 11 years I've owned it. This doesn't include a few things that were done in the warranty period. It's an excellent car to drive, and it hasn't been a real nightmare in breakdowns or anything, but all the stuff adds up. I just can't do another BMW this time I don't think, as much as I enjoy driving them.
I'm sure the M3 was worth every penny. My buddy has a 2011 M3 and that thing is a dream to drive. I'd say if your single and bring in a solid income I'd spend the money but I just got married an saving for a house so the Accord sport suites well
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm sure the M3 was worth every penny. My buddy has a 2011 M3 and that thing is a dream to drive. I'd say if your single and bring in a solid income I'd spend the money but I just got married an saving for a house so the Accord sport suites well
Unfortunately my BMW is a 325xi, so it isn't anywhere near an M3! 184 hp and similar torque. Very nice road feel and it is still peppy, but it's not really that "fast" in the traditional sense of 0-60 accel....
 

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Thanks - very informative. Much more informative that "urgh, go to Honda.com" by the way :D

To Mr. Urgh....my question was to understand how this suspension will wear in practice. On my BMW I needed to replace control arm bushings after only 35 or 40k miles. Which really meant I needed to replace the whole arms since it is a pain for people to press the bushings, so they just do the whole arms. Like $2000 I think. I'm not sure Honda.com would have told me how this suspension wears in real life vs. other designs. But, urgh night to you too!
the 03-12 accord used a suspension design that had lower arm bushings failing from 40k to 100k depending on the driver and also an upper ball joint that would fail 60k(rare)-150k(common)

the 91-02 accord had, in my opinion, the BEST front suspension for the masses - double wishbone with a bulletproof lower arm design that can't fail ever except for deteriorated rubber from a gazillion miles.

the 13+ front suspension will probably be the longest lasting front suspension in an accord ever though. it's VERY similar to the lower arm of a...say 2000 civic - never fails due to the bushing being inline with the suspension flex, unlike a compliance bushing from a 03 accord with has no choice but to tear over mileage). lets just hope It doesn't develop a noisy strut mount bearing(late model odysseys or some 06-11 civics) or premature lower ball joint wear(like 08-12). only time will tell...

get hondacare :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
the 03-12 accord used a suspension design that had lower arm bushings failing from 40k to 100k depending on the driver and also an upper ball joint that would fail 60k(rare)-150k(common)

the 91-02 accord had, in my opinion, the BEST front suspension for the masses - double wishbone with a bulletproof lower arm design that can't fail ever except for deteriorated rubber from a gazillion miles.

the 13+ front suspension will probably be the longest lasting front suspension in an accord ever though. it's VERY similar to the lower arm of a...say 2000 civic - never fails due to the bushing being inline with the suspension flex, unlike a compliance bushing from a 03 accord with has no choice but to tear over mileage). lets just hope It doesn't develop a noisy strut mount bearing(late model odysseys or some 06-11 civics) or premature lower ball joint wear(like 08-12). only time will tell...

get hondacare :)
You're the suspension guru! Thanks for the answers.

Any other major weaknesses that you note in the new Accord (from a mechanic's point of view)? CVT?

Will the engine leak oil in 5 different places like my BMW? :nuts: CV boots last a long time in Hondas?

In my earlier ownership of a Honda Prelude and Civic coupe, it seemed the A/C compressors would go. Otherwise I don't recall lots of squawks with those cars.
 

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You're the suspension guru! Thanks for the answers.

Any other major weaknesses that you note in the new Accord (from a mechanic's point of view)? CVT?

Will the engine leak oil in 5 different places like my BMW? :nuts: CV boots last a long time in Hondas?

In my earlier ownership of a Honda Prelude and Civic coupe, it seemed the A/C compressors would go. Otherwise I don't recall lots of squawks with those cars.
I like my CVT - it's performing far better than anything else on the market really. people are complaining from time to time of 'shudder' but unless it's making your head bob like your listening to your favorite song the valve body is ok, and the people complaining about the 'normal' shudder are those with econ on(or off really) and being VERY gentle on the pedal to 'maximize' mpg, which will cause a shudder period since the cvt acts like an "automatic manual trans" for the most part. it's always in gear all the time and slippage in the torque converter when not locked up is minor.

weakness comes in many forms - in this one it's the technology. most audio system bugs are squashed but there are still a few, such as ipod hang ups when blue tooth connects or reverse camera remaining on a bit after out of reverse and vice versa. that's the be expected and is minor.

real weakness will be revealed in years to come as the engine is now direct injected and uses double VTC actuators as well as ridiculously high fuel pressure mechanically achieved.

engine leaks are normal occurrence, but usually from mileage and time. it can only leak from 3 main spots: valve cover gasket, front crank seal and rear crank seal. other misc O-rings for thinks like vtec spool valve or vtc solenoid, etc, will eventually seep oil too - years down the line. again - who knows if a porous block situation may arise in years to come? usually Honda is good on warrantying the block though - like the 06+ civic cracked block issue or the 08+ v6 models with faulty piston rings

the front subframe is welded using a friction stir method to bond aluminum to steel. it obviously works. who knows how reliable it is though? I wonder how it will react to the steel portion corroding? either way, it's nothing to worry about, just a thought.

I didn't see a lot of compressor failures though on older cars. perhaps it was misdiagnosed? a tech next to me today asked me what he should do: a/c didn't work. the fans run(indicating there is sufficient pressure in the system to allow the compressor receive power) and he said he has power at the compressor clutch coil. I told him to check the schematic and see if there is an inline thermal protector, which could be bad or its just the coil that's bad since the compressor isn't locked up. I found out later he just priced the entire compressor and left it at that. total misdiagnosis but the customer is under the impression he has a bad compressor, not an open field coil, an external part of the compressor.

I foresee a pretty solid ride if treated right.
 

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I like my CVT - it's performing far better than anything else on the market really. people are complaining from time to time of 'shudder' but unless it's making your head bob like your listening to your favorite song the valve body is ok, and the people complaining about the 'normal' shudder are those with econ on(or off really) and being VERY gentle on the pedal to 'maximize' mpg, which will cause a shudder period since the cvt acts like an "automatic manual trans" for the most part. it's always in gear all the time and slippage in the torque converter when not locked up is minor.

weakness comes in many forms - in this one it's the technology. most audio system bugs are squashed but there are still a few, such as ipod hang ups when blue tooth connects or reverse camera remaining on a bit after out of reverse and vice versa. that's the be expected and is minor.

real weakness will be revealed in years to come as the engine is now direct injected and uses double VTC actuators as well as ridiculously high fuel pressure mechanically achieved.

engine leaks are normal occurrence, but usually from mileage and time. it can only leak from 3 main spots: valve cover gasket, front crank seal and rear crank seal. other misc O-rings for thinks like vtec spool valve or vtc solenoid, etc, will eventually seep oil too - years down the line. again - who knows if a porous block situation may arise in years to come? usually Honda is good on warrantying the block though - like the 06+ civic cracked block issue or the 08+ v6 models with faulty piston rings

the front subframe is welded using a friction stir method to bond aluminum to steel. it obviously works. who knows how reliable it is though? I wonder how it will react to the steel portion corroding? either way, it's nothing to worry about, just a thought.

I didn't see a lot of compressor failures though on older cars. perhaps it was misdiagnosed? a tech next to me today asked me what he should do: a/c didn't work. the fans run(indicating there is sufficient pressure in the system to allow the compressor receive power) and he said he has power at the compressor clutch coil. I told him to check the schematic and see if there is an inline thermal protector, which could be bad or its just the coil that's bad since the compressor isn't locked up. I found out later he just priced the entire compressor and left it at that. total misdiagnosis but the customer is under the impression he has a bad compressor, not an open field coil, an external part of the compressor.

I foresee a pretty solid ride if treated right.
HondaTechAV6 you sound like a pretty stand up guy. More than I can say for some techs I've run across with various vehicles I've owned in the past. Hope that customer is not stuck with paying for an entirely new compressor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I like my CVT - it's performing far better than anything else on the market really. people are complaining from time to time of 'shudder' but unless it's making your head bob like your listening to your favorite song the valve body is ok, and the people complaining about the 'normal' shudder are those with econ on(or off really) and being VERY gentle on the pedal to 'maximize' mpg, which will cause a shudder period since the cvt acts like an "automatic manual trans" for the most part. it's always in gear all the time and slippage in the torque converter when not locked up is minor.

weakness comes in many forms - in this one it's the technology. most audio system bugs are squashed but there are still a few, such as ipod hang ups when blue tooth connects or reverse camera remaining on a bit after out of reverse and vice versa. that's the be expected and is minor.

real weakness will be revealed in years to come as the engine is now direct injected and uses double VTC actuators as well as ridiculously high fuel pressure mechanically achieved.

engine leaks are normal occurrence, but usually from mileage and time. it can only leak from 3 main spots: valve cover gasket, front crank seal and rear crank seal. other misc O-rings for thinks like vtec spool valve or vtc solenoid, etc, will eventually seep oil too - years down the line. again - who knows if a porous block situation may arise in years to come? usually Honda is good on warrantying the block though - like the 06+ civic cracked block issue or the 08+ v6 models with faulty piston rings

the front subframe is welded using a friction stir method to bond aluminum to steel. it obviously works. who knows how reliable it is though? I wonder how it will react to the steel portion corroding? either way, it's nothing to worry about, just a thought.

I didn't see a lot of compressor failures though on older cars. perhaps it was misdiagnosed? a tech next to me today asked me what he should do: a/c didn't work. the fans run(indicating there is sufficient pressure in the system to allow the compressor receive power) and he said he has power at the compressor clutch coil. I told him to check the schematic and see if there is an inline thermal protector, which could be bad or its just the coil that's bad since the compressor isn't locked up. I found out later he just priced the entire compressor and left it at that. total misdiagnosis but the customer is under the impression he has a bad compressor, not an open field coil, an external part of the compressor.

I foresee a pretty solid ride if treated right.
My BMW can and did leak oil from: 1) valve cover gasket 2) oil filter housing gasket 3) crankcase vent valve (CCV) 4) vanos lines and now 5) lower oil pan gasket at the bottom of the engine. But that car is 11 years old. I guess it needs some Depends.

I like your last line! That's what I'm hoping for. I'd like to DIY oil changes, brake fluid and tranny fluid changes, and I'd like to learn brake pads/rotors. Otherwise I'd like for my Honda to stay out of trouble and not require a bunch of ticky-tack stuff.

Do all Hondas use the same window regulator design? Knock on wood I haven't had problems on the various Hondas I've owned. The BMW design seems very weak since all four of mine broke over time and needed replacing.

Glad there is a Honda tech hanging around since I know you know what you're talking about! :thmsup:

oh I forgot, re: A/C compressor. I know it broke in my Prelude (twice??? it's been awhile) or maybe it was the condenser once and the compressor another time. And in my Civic I know it broke too. But yeah, I was younger and didn't really know anything so I had to take them at face value. I can see what you're saying though, with many techs probably just replacing parts rather than wasting time trying to figure out the real problem. On my BMW the indy techs (2 places actually) kept chasing after a CEL on the secondary air pump. First they tried replacing hoses that were "cracked" but the error came back. Then he made me buy a whole new air pump. $350 part I think. Error still came back a week later. Finally they found some dry rot in a hose down in a different spot. No errors any more. Did I really need that $350 air pump then? I have my doubts, but what's done is done....
 

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I don't need it but I decided to pull out my folder of shop receipts and log everything....as I was starting to do some DIY stuff I wanted to keep better track of oil change, brake flush, etc. Was also interested to see how much stuff had been done. Like I said, it's not like the car was totally breaking down on me all the time, but BMWs seem to get a lot of stuff that needs "attention" like new bushings, lots of leaky sh&t in the engine bay (power steering hoses replaced, lots of oil gaskets and hoses replaced cause they start to leak, leaking/cracked CV boots, broken power window regulators (horrible design on BMWs), cooling system leaking, both rear springs ultimately just broke and needed replacing, etc. Then you add in normal stuff like brake pads and rotors and oil changes. The parts arent cheap, and add in labor at book rates and it seems pretty much every little thing costs $300-400 for a "single problem" and then when I'd have multiple problems it would be $1250-2000 out of my hide.

I have kept it going now given the logic (which I think is sound) that buying a new car means I will have at least $2000 PER YEAR in depreciation, so if I am spending $1000 a year on average to maintain the BMW, I'm still fine. I refuse to look at the "car is only worth $5000...how can you spend $2000 fixing it?" logic which I believe is NOT the correct way to see things. So why am I now enamored with the Accord when that goes against my logic? Because at some point I gotta cut ties with the BMW, plus now that our kids are growing, it might be nice to have a slightly roomier car (although we generally use our Odyssey for family hauling).
You must have an impressive collection of tools to repair and maintain BMW. One thing good about Honda or Toyota, I don't need to buy fancy tools to perform DIY jobs.
 

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I don't know the technical aspects of the suspension setups but to give a real life comparison.. I drive a 2013 Accord Sport 6mt. We also have a 2008 128i 6mt with the sport package (suspension from the 135i). I absolutely love driving the BMW, that driving experience is something else! However, it does tend to be on the stiffer side compared to the Accord. I felt tired after about an hour of driving. Just to give you perspective, we also have a Camry as well which is the complete opposite. I like to think that my Accord is a happy medium :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You must have an impressive collection of tools to repair and maintain BMW. One thing good about Honda or Toyota, I don't need to buy fancy tools to perform DIY jobs.
Nope not really but that's cause I've had it done at indy shops. Looking back I could have done some of it like window regulators and valve cover gaskets etc
I'm not comfortable removing whole axles and sh!t
 
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