[karfreek]

5th Gear: Honda’s Powertrain Overhaul

Lighter, smaller, more turbocharged. That’s the plan Honda is finally implementing, one the automaker announced way back in 2012. Here’s an interview with Keiji Ohtsu, chief technology strategy officer at Honda’s automobile R&D center, in Wards Auto to that effect:

Ohtsu: We have three new gasoline engines – 1.0L, 1.5L and 2.0L – which are being adapted to regional needs in North America, Europe and China, all markets where emissions regulations are becoming increasingly stringent. China offers the added incentive of a tax break for smaller-displacement engines, further encouraging downsizing.

In addition, we are focusing on weight reduction, changing V-6 to inline-4 engines and inline 4s to 3-cyls.

[...] WardsAuto: What plans do you have for your 2.4L naturally aspirated engine?

Ohtsu: Where possible, we hope to replace it with the downsized 1.5L unit.

WardsAuto: Will you discontinue it?

Ohtsu: No. We currently produce five naturally aspirated gasoline engines, including the 2.4L unit, two downsized turbocharged engines and two diesels. A 1.0L gasoline turbo is still under development.

Depending on the market and region, but particularly in Asia and other emerging markets, we will continue offering our naturally aspirated lineup which tend to be less costly.

Source:

'Das Auto' Is Kaput As Volkswagen Plans Image Revamp

So the 1.5L as the base motor and the 2.0L as the larger option to replace the V6?

Jay

 

[08EX-L]

If that's true, I'm glad I got the last NA Accord.

 

[johnjohn15]

11th Gen Accord to get 1.5L Turbo?

FYI:

10th generation Accord: 2018-2022.

11th generation Accord: 2023-2027.

If the above is true, there will be plenty of time for us to get the NA engine, even in MT. Don't care what Flyboy would say. He doesn't have any inside information for us!

 

[08EX-L]

FYI:

10th generation Accord: 2018-2022.

11th generation Accord: 2023-2027.

If the above is true, there will be plenty of time for us to get the NA engine, even in MT. Don't care what Flyboy would say. He doesn't have any inside information for us!

ah true didn't realize they were talking about the 11th already. I hope to never see such a low displacement engine in the Accord though, 2.0 Turbo minimum makes sense.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

Better use an 8-ball to make predictions for you.

 

[THE BIG TUNA]

1.5L Turbo is totally doable in an Accord. Ford has a 1.5L Turbo in their Fusion (In addition to the 2.5L base Inline and higher end 2.0L Turbo)

 

[Graycar]

So the 1.5L as the base motor and the 2.0L as the larger option to replace the V6 [10 th gen Accord]?

Only Flyboy predicts this with the certainty associated with his crystal ball (No other rationale needed).

My view....

The 1.5 turbo 4 may well replace the 2.4 L naturally aspirated 4 in the Accord. The power, torque, and overall performance are comparable, and the turbo 4 appears to be more efficient based what we are seeing in the 2016 Civic.

The same may not apply to the V6, IMO.

Unless Honda's 2.0 L turbo provides substantial fuel consumption benefits over the current J35 V6, there is little incentive to drop the J35 V6 from the Accord.

And I am skeptical that that a 2.0 L turbo will be significantly more efficient than the V6.

Supporting evidence...

Take the Ford 2.0 L Ecoboost turbo 4 and the 2016 Malibu 2.0 L turbo 4 to illustrate this point. Neither of these engines has the power of the Honda J35, and the fuel consumption is essentially the same, especially when the V6 is mated to the ZF HP9 automatic transmission. I suppose that it is possible that the Honda 2.0 L turbo 4 could be more efficient, but I seriously doubt it for HP ratings of 250-280, for instance.

Honda already uses the V6 for the Pilot, Odessy , and the 2017 Ridgeline, plus all of Acura models except the ILX. The power and driving dynamics of the V6 are an integral factor in what makes these models competitive and desirable. In my opinion, a turbo 4 will not measure up in these vehicles, and any fuel consumption benefits will be negligible.

In view of the above, it makes no sense (economic or otherwise) to use a 2.0 L turbo 4 in the Accord.....the V6 will prevail in the 10th gen.

 

[14v6]

Isn't this for the 10th gen since these powertrains are already available/will be available in the civic? The 2.0 turbo has some decent numbers curious how it will be in real world driving in terms of performance, MPG's and drivability. It will be a shame to see the 3.5 go to pasture seems like the earth dreams will be short lived or reduced in passenger cars.

Looking at the new Mazda CX-9, it will have a turbo 4 banger wouldn't rule out Honda putting some in the bigger SUV's and Ridgeline in a few years.

Ironic that Ford has beaten everyone as the ecoboost feels like it has been out forever. Last week saw an F-150 going really, really fast up a highway hill, must have been a 3.5 ecoboost, truly amazing.

 

[karfreek]

FYI:

10th generation Accord: 2018-2022.

11th generation Accord: 2023-2027.

If the above is true, there will be plenty of time for us to get the NA engine, even in MT. Don't care what Flyboy would say. He doesn't have any inside information for us!

Isn't this for the 10th gen since these powertrains are already available/will be available in the civic?

My bad. Tried to get this up fast before I went to a meeting. Its fixed.

Jay

 

[karfreek]

Only Flyboy predicts this with the certainty associated with his crystal ball (No other rationale needed).

His predictions compare in risk and scope as me predicting the sun will rise tomorrow and I will have to pay taxes on or before April 15th, 2016.

Jay

 

[johnjohn15]

My bad. Tried to get this up fast before I went to a meeting. Its fixed.



Jay

Jay, if the above statement is true, there is a great chance that the future Accord will not be equipped with Variable Cylinders Management system ?

 

[08EX-L]

Jay, if the above statement is true, there is a great chance that the future Accord will not be equipped with Variable Cylinders Management system ?

Good rids.

 

[karfreek]

Jay, if the above statement is true, there is a great chance that the future Accord will not be equipped with Variable Cylinders Management system ?

Yeah. I dont know if thats a plus or minus. Depends who you talk to.

Good rids.

We have it in our 2013 Oddy. Its Ok, no major issues. It seems to work inline with the GM and ChryCo products that I have driven with it. Ours can do 6,4 or 3 cyls. We get 29mpg calculated on longer trips doing 70mph in a van.

Jay

 

[Schoat333]

Interesting. I plan to trade my 2014 in on the 10th gen.

 

[karfreek]

1.5L Turbo is totally doable in an Accord. Ford has a 1.5L Turbo in their Fusion (In addition to the 2.5L base Inline and higher end 2.0L Turbo)

I drove a 1.5L (1.6L ?) Fusion and it was a dog. It is what made me go look at a 9th gen Accord.

On the test drive my wife said "This seems to have some pep". I responded with "its floored and has been since the intersection" She responded with "Nevermind, wow thats bad".

Jay

 

[tpi]

I think these turbos are a mixed bag-some benefits and some drawbacks. For me-

Good: Small displacement four cylinders tend to be smoother and more refined than big displacement four cylinder engines.

Steady state fuel economy or economy at light throttle may be improved.

Most turbo engines hold power at very high elevations better than NA engines.

Some of these engines have better than big NA 4cyl torque.

Disadvantage:

1. Heavy throttle typically results in rich mixtures to keep things cool and not detonating. Richer than typical NA engines-and enrichment more frequently applied. This can mean worse MPG for those who drive briskly.

2. Service complexity-Over very long ownership periods may cost more to service.

 

[THE BIG TUNA]

I drove a 1.5L (1.6L ?) Fusion and it was a dog. It is what made me go look at a 9th gen Accord.

On the test drive my wife said "This seems to have some pep". I responded with "its floored and has been since the intersection" She responded with "Nevermind, wow thats bad".

Jay

Haven't driven the turbo'd engines in the Fusion but my brother recently got a the base 4 cylinder 2.5L Fusion and it felt on par with a 4 cylinder Accord. It didnt "wow" me but it has your usual mid-size car, 4 cylinder car pull (Camry, Accord, etc). The Fusion also comes with a 2.0 Turbo engine. Has 230lbs of torque and 270hp.

You prob should've test driven that engine.

 

[karfreek]

Haven't driven the turbo'd engines in the Fusion but my brother recently got a the base 4 cylinder 2.5L Fusion and it felt on par with a 4 cylinder Accord. It didnt "wow" me but it has your usual mid-size car, 4 cylinder car pull (Camry, Accord, etc). The Fusion also comes with a 2.0 Turbo engine. Has 230lbs of torque and 270hp.

You prob should've test driven that engine.

Probably, but I was trying to keep the price of admission low and wanted a stick. The dealer could not locate a MT within 500mi.

There were other issues with the Fusion, too. Mainly the Ford logo on the steering wheel. I'm just not a fan.

Jay

 

[200366HFP]

I drove a 1.5L (1.6L ?) Fusion and it was a dog.

I agree with this. I was shopping with my niece this summer, and she was in a buy now mode.

3 cars we test drove were a 2012 Focus 1.5L Turbo, a 2012 Cruz with their 1.4 Turbo, and a 2008 Nissan Altima 2.5 non turbo.

The 2.5 was hands down the better motor, and the car itself felt better in every aspect, acceleration, braking, handling.

I hope Honda doesn't go the way of the little turbo motors.

 

[karfreek]

I agree with this. I was shopping with my niece this summer, and she was in a buy now mode.

3 cars we test drove were a 2012 Focus 1.5L Turbo, a 2012 Cruz with their 1.4 Turbo, and a 2008 Nissan Altima 2.5 non turbo.

The 2.5 was hands down the better motor, and the car itself felt better in every aspect, acceleration, braking, handling.

I hope Honda doesn't go the way of the little turbo motors.

You know what else is bad? The 1.4L Turbo in the Dart. Even with the manual that engine is useless, Jekyl and Hyde. Either it can't move out of its own way or its screaming toward redline, no middle ground.

Jay