[puffyquail]

HI all! It's really weird I know but I am curious whether the ECU and electric drivetrain would take advantage of large increases in power available if I was to turbocharge the engine. I know that the engine generates all the power through the motor/generator below 45mph under heavy acceleration, so would it simply just generate more power and accelerate faster or would the ECU or hardware limitations prevent any more power from actually being used?

 

[Mr.Cannon]

My first concern is how one would tune the ECU(s) to accommodate a turbo. You'd have to account for fueling, boost control, and dyno tuning just on the gas engine alone and this hybrid system works exactly as implied in that the gas and electric motors work together within a set of parameters for a desired result. Frankly, if you own an Accord hybrid and your priority is power output then you have the wrong car. The new hybrid Corvette, McLarens, and Ferrari are the only "attainable" performance hybrids at the present time but maybe the market with continue to fill out in place of going 100% electric which when implemented I think will show the serious flaws in the planning.

 

[TGHI]

Anything's possible if you want to dump an Accord's worth of money into an Accord in order to have a single turbocharged hybrid Accord that's worth as much as an unmodified Accord.

 

[SylenThunder]

Anything's possible if you want to dump an Accord's worth of money into an Accord in order to have a single turbocharged hybrid Accord that's worth as much as an unmodified Accord.

I would speculate that it may even be worth less in resale.

I did find this when using a quick Google search.
Hybrid Turbochargers Explained: How They're Made And How They Work (carthrottle.com)
Appears to most be related to increasing the size of the turbo on hybrids that already have a turbocharged system though.

 

[Mr.Cannon]

That article is about a "Hybrid Turbo" itself, not related to a hybrid vehicle. Interesting article though and another interesting design is the diesel compound turbos.

Electric/Hybrid drivetrains are worth of their praise but the engineering on combustion/compression engines is staggering considering how much they've changed since a relatively recent inception.

I would speculate that it may even be worth less in resale.

I did find this when using a quick Google search.
Hybrid Turbochargers Explained: How They're Made And How They Work (carthrottle.com)
Appears to most be related to increasing the size of the turbo on hybrids that already have a turbocharged system though.

 

[slimm1469]

I think that would be a disaster with no resale value. In the recent past, if there's been enough market for such a car, they'd build it. But the current market won't support a turbo hybrid. The car business is being reshaped and I can't see any potential for that type car.

Car Market Outlook: What To Expect In 2023

Between the EV onslaught, digital retailing, supply chain woes and inflation, the car market has been on a rollercoaster ride. Here’s what’s in store for 2023.

www.forbes.com

 

[Davidpeab]

I wouldn't. There, that should get someone to contradict me and prove it can be done. But really, I wouldn't mess with the sophisticated electronic and physical characteristics that balance the connection and usability between the electric and combustion propulsion systems. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[MisterHooman]

This is a classic case of just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[zackgoober418]

My first concern is how one would tune the ECU(s) to accommodate a turbo. You'd have to account for fueling, boost control, and dyno tuning just on the gas engine alone and this hybrid system works exactly as implied in that the gas and electric motors work together within a set of parameters for a desired result. Frankly, if you own an Accord hybrid and your priority is power output then you have the wrong car. The new hybrid Corvette, McLarens, and Ferrari are the only "attainable" performance hybrids at the present time but maybe the market with continue to fill out in place of going 100% electric which when implemented I think will show the serious flaws in the planning.

you can’t though that the 2022 Honda Accord hybrid on any trim has an integrated exhaust manifold into the cylinder head of the engine. You need to get a custom-made cylinder head, which is gonna cost you a pretty penny.

 

[Inspire2.4]

Just make a flange that fits the head and bolt on a turbo. But the cat will be going elsewhere and O2 sensor wires extended.

But to make HAH actually faster, what really needs to be done IMO is on the traction motor. And they are:

• Rewind the coils for more current
• Replace everything to support more current; larger battery, voltage booster, wiring, circuitry, etc(end of thinking capacity).
• Then reprogram the traction motor ("brushless") controller to accomodate all the physical changes.
• Replace the weak "green" magnets with some neodymium magnets
• Beef up the motor rotor structure so it doesn't disintegrate with added extra weight of magnets' centrifugal force.
• Longer internal reduction gear or final drive so torque doesn't start plumetting at 4000rpm or about 38mph.
• Make sure the trans case and shaft bearings can take the extra axial load because helical gears.
• LSD because I already spin tires with 232lb-ft becoming 1950lb-ft at the wheels thru 8.4:1 reduction.

Plus do the same for the motor by the engine THEN and only then you'll see the benefit of doing any ICE power mods as far as putting power to the ground.
Really need corporate engineering-level access to all the computers.
Now a Toyota hybrid with its planetary power split, adding power to ICE will just make the car faster. If you can get the computer to accept it.
Honda hybrid is just an EV with a Honda generator when going under ~43mph.
Think hot water tank = BEV, tankless hot water with 2gal reserve = Honda HEV.

Or wait for Prelude and swap that hybrid powertrain lol.
One day we'll have speed shops doing internal motor work hopefully...

 

[zackgoober418]

that would be great, my man, but you’re forgetting that that accord hybrid has the exhaust manifold and headers integrated into the cylinder, head block itself.so there’s no way to just pop on a turbo because. maybe if it wasn’t integrated together, you could do it cause that would just make it two separate pieces but again you’re also forgetting that in the hybrid since it’s integrated, it’s all in the back left not in the front of the car where the oxygen sensor is like it is in the normal turbo trim

 

[zackgoober418]

inspire 2.4 i’ve been doing this for the last year, trying to figure out how to do it to my accord hybrid, but I mean it’s really difficult because it’s not as easy as it as it is with the normal turbo model and a cat looks the same as your downpipe exhaust intake manifold is all the way in the back of the car by the firewall so that’s stupid honestly it would be a lot easier to mod if they just kept the same set up as the turbo model and Just added the electric battery. It could’ve been so much easier to mod. Because currently I can’t figure out where my damn exhaust manifold is on my hybrid car. Everywhere it says on the Internet it says behind or back at the engine to the left of the intake will be really helpful. Is sending a picture of what your own hybrid accord exhaust manifold looks like because both parts are looking the same.

 

[zackgoober418]

Just make a flange that fits the head and bolt on a turbo. But the cat will be going elsewhere and O2 sensor wires extended.

But to make HAH actually faster, what really needs to be done IMO is on the traction motor. And they are:

• Rewind the coils for more current
• Replace everything to support more current; larger battery, voltage booster, wiring, circuitry, etc(end of thinking capacity).
• Then reprogram the traction motor ("brushless") controller to accomodate all the physical changes.
• Replace the weak "green" magnets with some neodymium magnets
• Beef up the motor rotor structure so it doesn't disintegrate with added extra weight of magnets' centrifugal force.
• Longer internal reduction gear or final drive so torque doesn't start plumetting at 4000rpm or about 38mph.
• Make sure the trans case and shaft bearings can take the extra axial load because helical gears.
• LSD because I already spin tires with 232lb-ft becoming 1950lb-ft at the wheels thru 8.4:1 reduction.

Plus do the same for the motor by the engine THEN and only then you'll see the benefit of doing any ICE power mods as far as putting power to the ground.
Really need corporate engineering-level access to all the computers.
Now a Toyota hybrid with its planetary power split, adding power to ICE will just make the car faster. If you can get the computer to accept it.
Honda hybrid is just an EV with a Honda generator when going under ~43mph.
Think hot water tank = BEV, tankless hot water with 2gal reserve = Honda HEV.

Or wait for Prelude and swap that hybrid powertrain lol.
One day we'll have speed shops doing internal motor work hopefully...

 

[zackgoober418]

View attachment 567766

if someone knows how to add, it’s about two this car please let me know cause I’m dying to do it to my car. I’m just not kindly smart enough how to add a turbo to this card because the exhaust manifold is integrated directly into the cylinder head.

 

[Hudouc]

that would be great, my man, but you’re forgetting that that accord hybrid has the exhaust manifold and headers integrated into the cylinder, head block itself.so there’s no way to just pop on a turbo because. maybe if it wasn’t integrated together, you could do it cause that would just make it two separate pieces but again you’re also forgetting that in the hybrid since it’s integrated, it’s all in the back left not in the front of the car where the oxygen sensor is like it is in the normal turbo trim

You're worrying about all the wrong things.

Even if all the hardware fits (it definitely will), there is almost zero chance you can get the ECU to work with the way that HAH work. You need someone like Hondata or Ktuner to spend thousands of hours to decode the ECU and come up with the software to work. They would need to explore every last bit of various ECU parameters in order for this to be even remotely close to possible. A highly integrated system like the HAH makes such mod unrealistic.

With an electric motor, you're better off with modding the motor controller and inverter.

Hi power inverter for Nissan leaf motor. Dyno's 302.3hp p15

PM ME before ordering as I am always updating this So as many have you have seen I have been working hard on a igbt driver board for some Fuji 800 amp 1200 volt igbts. This is my powerstage thread. I received a complete Nissan leaf powertrain with no battery and I plan to put in in my rusty...

endless-sphere.com

This guy pushed more than triple the factory horsepower.

With the tiny battery pack on the HAH, you're probably limited to a few seconds of full power at best after any kind of mod. Also remember that playing with "high voltage" is extremely dangerous.

 

[Inspire2.4]

that would be great, my man, but you’re forgetting that that accord hybrid has the exhaust manifold and headers integrated into the cylinder, head block itself.so there’s no way to just pop on a turbo because. maybe if it wasn’t integrated together, you could do it cause that would just make it two separate pieces but again you’re also forgetting that in the hybrid since it’s integrated, it’s all in the back left not in the front of the car where the oxygen sensor is like it is in the normal turbo trim

With all due respect because I've been in your shoes, I'm not forgetting anything.
Pic below shows the exhaust side of cylinder head, integrated manifold casting going into cat (and upstream O2), and EXHAUST GAS recirculation valve to the right.

And yes way you can just pop a turbo on. On the turbo, put on a flange that matches the "integrated exhaust manifolded port" on the cylinder head below.
The oval hole is where exhaust gases come out right into the O2 sensor then cat, which is pictured above.

inspire 2.4 i’ve been doing this for the last year, trying to figure out how to do it to my accord hybrid, but I mean it’s really difficult because it’s not as easy as it as it is with the normal turbo model and a cat looks the same as your downpipe exhaust intake manifold is all the way in the back of the car by the firewall so that’s stupid honestly it would be a lot easier to mod if they just kept the same set up as the turbo model and Just added the electric battery. It could’ve been so much easier to mod. Because currently I can’t figure out where my damn exhaust manifold is on my hybrid car. Everywhere it says on the Internet it says behind or back at the engine to the left of the intake will be really helpful. Is sending a picture of what your own hybrid accord exhaust manifold looks like because both parts are looking the same.

I wish they did it too. 252hp turbo ICE with 320hp traction motor haha.
If you popped your hood and can't recognize the exhaust "manifold" part of the cylinder head looking right at you, you have a lot more to learn before thinking about power mods.
Nothing wrong with wanting more power. But it seems you have a long way to go before you can come up with a build idea to execute such goal.

View attachment 567766

It's toward the front of the car. There is no separate "exhaust manifold", but the shape and fucntion is integrated into the cylinder head.
I would even go so far to call it a extreme shorty 4-1 lol.


In summary, integrated exhaust manifold should be the least of your worries turbocharging a HAH for more power to the ground.
Since Mr. Hudouc is here, see his photos on how to mount a turbo to an engine's cylinder head with integrated exhaust manifold.

Hudouc's K24Z2 Turbo Build

It has been six month since the start of the build, and with 4000+ miles on the final map, I finally feel ready to post this. Enjoy! Why? I felt something was missing from my life, not necessarily a faster car, but something that'll let me prove myself and have fun in the meantime. Goal A...

www.driveaccord.net

 

[zackgoober418]

With all due respect because I've been in your shoes, I'm not forgetting anything.
Pic below shows the exhaust side of cylinder head, integrated manifold casting going into cat (and upstream O2), and EXHAUST GAS recirculation valve to the right.
View attachment 567794


And yes way you can just pop a turbo on. On the turbo, put on a flange that matches the "integrated exhaust manifolded port" on the cylinder head below.
The oval hole is where exhaust gases come out right into the O2 sensor then cat, which is pictured above.
View attachment 567795


I wish they did it too. 252hp turbo ICE with 320hp traction motor haha.
If you popped your hood and can't recognize the exhaust "manifold" part of the cylinder head looking right at you, you have a lot more to learn before thinking about power mods.
Nothing wrong with wanting more power. But it seems you have a long way to go before you can come up with a build idea to execute such goal.


View attachment 567796

It's toward the front of the car. There is no separate "exhaust manifold", but the shape and fucntion is integrated into the cylinder head.
I would even go so far to call it a extreme shorty 4-1 lol.


In summary, integrated exhaust manifold should be the least of your worries turbocharging a HAH for more power to the ground.
Since Mr. Hudouc is here, see his photos on how to mount a turbo to an engine's cylinder head with integrated exhaust manifold.

Hudouc's K24Z2 Turbo Build

It has been six month since the start of the build, and with 4000+ miles on the final map, I finally feel ready to post this. Enjoy! Why? I felt something was missing from my life, not necessarily a faster car, but something that'll let me prove myself and have fun in the meantime. Goal A...

www.driveaccord.net

ARE YOU SAYING THATS THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD WITH THE ARROW

 

[Inspire2.4]

View attachment 567797 ARE YOU SAYING THATS THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD WITH THE ARROW

Correct. To be specific, that's the outlet of the integrated exhaust manifold. So turbo can go on there.

 

[zackgoober418]

where is it gonna go if I bolt it there because from my knowledge that that air intake is all in the back of the engine

 

[zackgoober418]

cause you have the boat, the turbo with the exhaust manifold, and then the other side has to connect to the intake with air comes in